How should have Christians historically addressed Islam?

Ignatius the Kiwi · Thursday at 2:02 PM

To be more specific, How should have Christians historically addressed Islam within a Christian moral framework?

I have often been surprised at the historic illiteracy of many who I've discussed this question with here on these forums who seem utterly unaware or hopelessly naive about the problem Islam posed to Christianity. Islam being a violently expansionist religion which imposed harsh restrictions on it's Dhimmi populations.

Often the assumption seems to be it is the fault of Christians living at the time who failed to evangelise properly within Islamic realms that caused Islam to spread. That the wars fought by Christians (crusades for example), were entirely un Christlike and represent a failure of medieval Christianity which we have to repent of.

So if we are to reject the medieval reaction to Islam in favour of a modern liberal acceptance and tolerance of Islam, do we then condemn Christians in the past in their response to Islam? That modern society is better in it's response to Islam? That Islam should become have had a presence in the Christian world sooner? Were Christians in the past wrong to keep Islam out of their realms?

Maria Billingsley · Thursday at 6:13 PM

Ignatius the Kiwi said:
To be more specific, How should have Christians historically addressed Islam within a Christian moral framework?

I have often been surprised at the historic illiteracy of many who I've discussed this question with here on these forums who seem utterly unaware or hopelessly naive about the problem Islam posed to Christianity. Islam being a violently expansionist religion which imposed harsh restrictions on it's Dhimmi populations.

Often the assumption seems to be it is the fault of Christians living at the time who failed to evangelise properly within Islamic realms that caused Islam to spread. That the wars fought by Christians (crusades for example), were entirely un Christlike and represent a failure of medieval Christianity which we have to repent of.

So if we are to reject the medieval reaction to Islam in favour of a modern liberal acceptance and tolerance of Islam, do we then condemn Christians in the past in their response to Islam? That modern society is better in it's response to Islam? That Islam should become have had a presence in the Christian world sooner? Were Christians in the past wrong to keep Islam out of their realms?

We have to go way back to the beginning in order to do the righteous thing. This is what Jesus Christ of Nazareth said:

John 13:34-35
"A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples."

Blessings

Ignatius the Kiwi · Thursday at 6:17 PM

Maria Billingsley said:
We have to go way back to the beginning in order to do the righteous thing. This is what Jesus Christ of Nazareth said:

John 13:34-35
"A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples."

Blessings

Is the Muslim the other Jesus is commanding us to love in this passage? How this does translate to actions that Christians today and historically have taken towards Muslims? Did Christians have a duty to wash the feat of the Muslims who were invading them or capturing them as slaves? Is the command that Jesus is giving us to love one another more a command to love all people equally and not prioritize our brothers and sisters?

Maria Billingsley · Thursday at 6:56 PM

Ignatius the Kiwi said:
Is the Muslim the other Jesus is commanding us to love in this passage? How this does translate to actions that Christians today and historically have taken towards Muslims? Did Christians have a duty to wash the feat of the Muslims who were invading them or capturing them as slaves? Is the command that Jesus is giving us to love one another more a command to love all people equally and not prioritize our brothers and sisters?

Lots of questions. I already provided the simple answer.
Thanks for sharing!

Ignatius the Kiwi · Thursday at 7:09 PM

Maria Billingsley said:
Lots of questions. I already provided the simple answer.
Thanks for sharing!

Well no you didn't. Historically Muslims from North Africa launched numerous slave raids into Europe, they would capture men in order to put them to work and women for sexual purposes. Should Christians have washed their feet and loved them per the quote you provided?

Maria Billingsley · Thursday at 7:32 PM

Ignatius the Kiwi said:
Well no you didn't. Historically Muslims from North Africa launched numerous slave raids into Europe, they would capture men in order to put them to work and women for sexual purposes. Should Christians have washed their feet and loved them per the quote you provided?

We all have a right to defend ourselves and our family.

Lukaris · Thursday at 7:33 PM

I guess all we can do is disprove their “prophet” by the words of the Lord ( whom they consider a prophet) in that John the Baptist was the final prophet ( Matthew 11:1-15). They have no ability to disprove this as some manipulation which is probably their tactic to undermine our scriptures. These words were spoken and recorded centuries before their “prophet” was born.

2PhiloVoid · Thursday at 7:50 PM

Ignatius the Kiwi said:
To be more specific, How should have Christians historically addressed Islam within a Christian moral framework?

I have often been surprised at the historic illiteracy of many who I've discussed this question with here on these forums who seem utterly unaware or hopelessly naive about the problem Islam posed to Christianity. Islam being a violently expansionist religion which imposed harsh restrictions on it's Dhimmi populations.

Often the assumption seems to be it is the fault of Christians living at the time who failed to evangelise properly within Islamic realms that caused Islam to spread. That the wars fought by Christians (crusades for example), were entirely un Christlike and represent a failure of medieval Christianity which we have to repent of.

So if we are to reject the medieval reaction to Islam in favour of a modern liberal acceptance and tolerance of Islam, do we then condemn Christians in the past in their response to Islam? That modern society is better in it's response to Islam? That Islam should become have had a presence in the Christian world sooner? Were Christians in the past wrong to keep Islam out of their realms?

How should have Christians historically addressed Islam? One would think that the first generations of Christians in the Near East would have addressed the central fact of difference in our religions: That the Angel Gabriel either said what he is reported in the Christian Gospels to have said to Mary about Jesus, OR Gabriel said what is allegedly reported by Muslims to have been said to Mohammad about Mary and Jesus. Both can't be correct since they contradict each other.

On the practical level of digging into the actual history, before we simply look at accounts of warfare between Christian kingdoms and Islamic conquerors, we might first consider how things actually may have transpired in the 7th -10 centuries. The following wiki article is a nice introduction:

Christian influences on the Islamic world - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Niels · Thursday at 7:51 PM

The correct response is to protect the flock from the wolves. If Muhammad was a false prophet, then he was a ravenous wolf according to Jesus. This doesn't mean you should be cruel to Muslims or look for trouble. Treat others, including Muslims, as you would like to be treated. You are under no obligation, however, to let yourself or others be devoured or subjugated by them.

Hoping2 · Thursday at 9:43 PM

Lukaris said:
I guess all we can do is disprove their “prophet” by the words of the Lord ( whom they consider a prophet) in that John the Baptist was the final prophet ( Matthew 11:1-15). They have no ability to disprove this as some manipulation which is probably their tactic to undermine our scriptures. These words were spoken and recorded centuries before their “prophet” was born.

How can you consider John the Baptist THE final prophet, when the gift of prophesy is still available to the faithful ? (Rom 12:6, 1 Cor 14:1)

Hoping2 · Thursday at 9:51 PM

Ignatius the Kiwi said:
To be more specific, How should have Christians historically addressed Islam within a Christian moral framework?

I have often been surprised at the historic illiteracy of many who I've discussed this question with here on these forums who seem utterly unaware or hopelessly naive about the problem Islam posed to Christianity. Islam being a violently expansionist religion which imposed harsh restrictions on it's Dhimmi populations.

Often the assumption seems to be it is the fault of Christians living at the time who failed to evangelise properly within Islamic realms that caused Islam to spread. That the wars fought by Christians (crusades for example), were entirely un Christlike and represent a failure of medieval Christianity which we have to repent of.

So if we are to reject the medieval reaction to Islam in favour of a modern liberal acceptance and tolerance of Islam, do we then condemn Christians in the past in their response to Islam? That modern society is better in it's response to Islam? That Islam should become have had a presence in the Christian world sooner? Were Christians in the past wrong to keep Islam out of their realms?

As Christian are known by their fruit, it would be our duty to pray for any perceived invaders...and trust in God for our deliverance.
Like Hezekiah did in 2 Kings 19.

Ignatius the Kiwi · Thursday at 10:16 PM

Hoping2 said:
As Christian are known by their fruit, it would be our duty to pray for any perceived invaders...and trust in God for our deliverance.
Like Hezekiah did in 2 Kings 19.

Translate that into action. Do we wait for divine revelation from God? Do you resist the invaders or let them whatever they want?

Or let's put it another way. How should Christians in Spain have responded to Muslims raiding and invading their land?

Hoping2 · Thursday at 10:29 PM

Ignatius the Kiwi said:
Translate that into action. Do we wait for divine revelation from God? Do you resist the invaders or let them whatever they want?

Or let's put it another way. How should Christians in Spain have responded to Muslims raiding and invading their land?

They trusted in the Lord for their well-being.

Ignatius the Kiwi · Thursday at 10:30 PM

Hoping2 said:
They trusted in the Lord for their well-being.

Okay and how this translate into action taken on our part?

David Lamb · Friday at 2:01 AM

Maria Billingsley said:
We have to go way back to the beginning in order to do the righteous thing. This is what Jesus Christ of Nazareth said:

John 13:34-35
"A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples."

Blessings

I think the verses you quoted are about Christians loving one another. They are in the context of the institution of the Lord's Supper, when Jesus and His disciples were in the upper room. I don't mean that Christians should hate Muslims, for Jesus also taught His followers to love even their enemies:

““But I say to you, love your enemies, bless those who curse you, do good to those who hate you, and pray for those who spitefully use you and persecute you,” (Mt 5:44 NKJV)

Lukaris · Friday at 7:57 AM

Hoping2 said:
How can you consider John the Baptist THE final prophet, when the gift of prophesy is still available to the faithful ? (Rom 12:6, 1 Cor 14:1)

Revealed prophecy, whatever people prophesy must be according to what has been revealed ( Revelation 22:18-19). I should have been more thorough.

chevyontheriver · Friday at 8:05 AM

Ignatius the Kiwi said:
To be more specific, How should have Christians historically addressed Islam within a Christian moral framework?

I have often been surprised at the historic illiteracy of many who I've discussed this question with here on these forums who seem utterly unaware or hopelessly naive about the problem Islam posed to Christianity. Islam being a violently expansionist religion which imposed harsh restrictions on it's Dhimmi populations.

Often the assumption seems to be it is the fault of Christians living at the time who failed to evangelise properly within Islamic realms that caused Islam to spread. That the wars fought by Christians (crusades for example), were entirely un Christlike and represent a failure of medieval Christianity which we have to repent of.

So if we are to reject the medieval reaction to Islam in favour of a modern liberal acceptance and tolerance of Islam, do we then condemn Christians in the past in their response to Islam? That modern society is better in it's response to Islam? That Islam should become have had a presence in the Christian world sooner? Were Christians in the past wrong to keep Islam out of their realms?

The naval Battle of Lepanto and the Siege of Vienna were two pivital events that kept us from all being Muslim.

Islam was never not a military and political movement to take land and peoples by force.

dbot · Friday at 8:06 AM

I think it’s hard to judge what they did back then by today’s standards, because their world was completely different. If you were a Christian ruler in the Middle Ages, you didn’t separate faith from politics, defending your religion was the same as defending your people and land. I’m not saying everything they did was right, but survival was a bigger factor than we probably realize now. “Tolerance” back then just meant not wiping each other out, not the kind of religious coexistence we talk about today, so it’s a bit unfair to expect them to act like modern democracies.

Maria Billingsley · Friday at 8:40 AM

David Lamb said:
I think the verses you quoted are about Christians loving one another. They are in the context of the institution of the Lord's Supper, when Jesus and His disciples were in the upper room. I don't mean that Christians should hate Muslims, for Jesus also taught His followers to love even their enemies:

““But I say to you, love your enemies, bless those who curse you, do good to those who hate you, and pray for those who spitefully use you and persecute you,” (Mt 5:44 NKJV)

Except for the last line " by this they will know you are my disciples " makes it everyone. The capacity to love beyond one's own circle is the only proof they are One in Him.

PatrickTate · Friday at 8:57 AM

Ignatius the Kiwi said:
To be more specific, How should have Christians historically addressed Islam within a Christian moral framework?

I have often been surprised at the historic illiteracy of many who I've discussed this question with here on these forums who seem utterly unaware or hopelessly naive about the problem Islam posed to Christianity. Islam being a violently expansionist religion which imposed harsh restrictions on it's Dhimmi populations.

Often the assumption seems to be it is the fault of Christians living at the time who failed to evangelise properly within Islamic realms that caused Islam to spread. That the wars fought by Christians (crusades for example), were entirely un Christlike and represent a failure of medieval Christianity which we have to repent of.

So if we are to reject the medieval reaction to Islam in favour of a modern liberal acceptance and tolerance of Islam, do we then condemn Christians in the past in their response to Islam? That modern society is better in it's response to Islam? That Islam should become have had a presence in the Christian world sooner? Were Christians in the past wrong to keep Islam out of their realms?

What is even more important will be how Christians deal with Islamic nations over the coming years because we are in a situation unlike has ever been faced before with so many Muslims researching Christian testimonies freely through their cell phones.

In the spirit and intent of partial agreement with our "adversaries" in the event that our adversaries are partly correct on certain points I believe that Christians should agree with Muslims on two topics....
1. Turning deserts green as predicted in Isaiah chapter thirty five
2. Make Money Abundant in order to decrease the economic pressure on women to choose to have an abortion as opposed to at least having their baby and allowing their baby to be adopted.

Here is an ancient Islamic prediction that we Christians can perhaps agree with, [to at least some degree]?

Book 005, Number 2208:
"Abu Huraira reported Allah's Messenger (way peace be upon him) as saying: The Last Hour will not come before wealth becomes abundant and overflowing, so much so that a man takes Zakat out of his property and cannot find anyone to accept it from him and till the land of Arabia becomes meadows and rivers."
SAHIH MUSLIM, BOOK 25: The Book on General Behaviour (Kitab Al-Adab)

How should have Christians historically addressed Islam?

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