I believe that ALL who ever lived will be in God’s Kingdom

BelieveItOarKnot said:

Only IF you read half the scripture and forgot the "but without sin" part

I'd call being God in the flesh somewhat of a huge difference, wouldn't you?

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Was he bound like us from the womb? If not then he was not tempted in all points as we are ...

BelieveItOarKnot said:

Only IF you read half the scripture

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Says the person that ignores most scripture proving their position to be wrong

Your position can't comprehend that there is an adversary

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Oh, I know there's an adversary. And I also know it's possible he and his angels will be cast down to earth in reality in my lifetime putting on a show to deceive most of the world. That's what the gospel armor is for -to be able to stand in "the evil" day. Is it possible that I won't be here? Yes. But that's what we should be watching for.


Revelation 12:9 "And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceived the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

Revelation 12:11 "And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death."

Can I bring him along to stand beside me during Judgement Day when the books are opened and blame him? No. Will he even be there during our Judgement Day? No.

Revelation 20:10 "And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever."

Revelation 20:12"And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works."

He will have already been thrown into the Lake of Fire before the books are even opened, including the book of life.


But you will continue to ignore these scriptures just like you always do.....

Aseyesee said:

It was never more then an image ...by which I was deceived of my soul ... which has been the issue (of blood) since the foundation of the earth, where Christ was crucified from ...

Rom 7:23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.

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in hindsight the first time i recall reasoning is at the age of four when i saw a face looking back at me in the wooden veneer of my cupboard and believed it was God watching me ...

honey badger said:

in hindsight the first time i recall reasoning is at the age of four when i saw a face looking back at me in the wooden veneer of my cupboard and believed it was God watching me ...

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How ordered our footsteps have always been ...

Did Jesus exercise His sin nature as we do, or did He only follow the Will of the Father, not the will of man. This is why the people, including His apostles, couldn't grasp the concept of messiah as they were looking at it from a human perspective and expected a human outcome.

Aseyesee said:

How ordered our footsteps have always been ...

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every step be it left or right ...

JulieB67 said:

Says the person that ignores most scripture proving their position to be wrong

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I think we've delineated that we have vastly different hearing of scripture.

Your position automatically hears only people in the equations.

The fact is, in scripture, there is no such agency as only a person. There is the person and there is the tempter or his own.

This fact will continue to evade you, because of the fact.

JulieB67 said:

Oh, I know there's an adversary

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Even when you admit the fact you continue to toss the fact aside when reading. It's actually quite funny.

JulieB67 said:

He will have already been thrown into the Lake of Fire before the books are even opened, including the book of life.


But you will continue to ignore these scriptures just like you always do.....

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The chief perp and the hierarchy, beast, false prophet get tossed first. There's a world full of them which will follow. Devils that is. Both male and female, in the spiritual senses.

BelieveItOarKnot said:

. Devils that is. Both male and female, in the spiritual senses.

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Christ is talking to the churches when talking about repentance and not having their names blotted out of the book of life, etc. not devils. Satan and his angels are not in the book of life so once again your argument falls flat. We are the ones at the Judgement Seat.

even when you admit the fact you continue to toss the fact aside when reading. It's actually quite funny.

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I have never tossed aside the fact that Satan exists. I just know that we can resist him and he will flee. And in the end times one must have the gospel armor on for him if one is here. It's much more serious than you going on about the adversary "within" at this point. Something we can depart from. It is possible to depart from evil. We are told specifically to do so. We have a choice.

And I have never stated anyone is sinless but it is possible to put God's will over our own. Something you obviously believe to be false. I actually find it pretty sad that you give Satan more power over us than the Holy Spirit within us. You believe others are blinded but it's obvious you can't see scripture when it's staring right at you. Instead you ignore it and change the subject.

Can you even answer to two scriptures ?

What do they mean to you? What are they saying to you? Can you answer these without side stepping and going in a different direction? I have answered to your verses. Can you do the same? And please don't answer with I believe in all of God's word. I want to know what you believe these verses are stating?

Romans 12:2 "And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God."

Revelation 3:5 "He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels."

JulieB67 said:

Christ is talking to the churches when talking about repentance and not having their names blotted out of the book of life, etc. not devils.

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Read the fine print:

Revelation 20:12

And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books,

BOOKS and BOOK

JulieB67 said:

I have never tossed aside the fact that Satan exists. I just know that we can resist him and he will flee.

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He flees from the person when we "see" that it is not "me" or "you."

That does not mean temptation stops or that anyone becomes sinless. Sin is ever present and of the devil. Your religious fantasy position probably resides in your thinking you're sinless from time to time or that the tempter has no internal operations going on within your flesh. Common falsehood.

JulieB67 said:

Something we can depart from

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Are you going to trot our your "I am sinless" card now?

You might understand that the devil SINS in people and the person is not even involved in that sin. Ala Mark 4:15 for example. Thefts transpire, unknown to the persons. Captivity transpires for the masses and none even know it, Acts 26:18, 2 Cor. 4:4, Eph. 2:2

I doubt Peter had a clue it was Satan thinking and speaking through Peter. Even when in denial of Christ. Even after Jesus directed a rebuke to Satan right to Peter's face.

The proverbial day dawned and the proverbial rooster crowed. He finally got the picture.

Exodus 32:33
And the Lord said unto Moses, Whosoever hath sinned against me, him will I blot out of my book.

I can only imagine what that book looks like in some people's heads, when they sin, repent, sin, repent ad infinitum. A MESS.

We "awake" when we are "truthful" with ourselves about these matters. Otherwise we remain in the dark, quite falsely justifying the "entirety" of ourselves, when in fact that never happens.

BelieveItOarKnot said:

Read the fine print:

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That makes no sense within that verse. Again, Christ is talking to the churches about repentance and not having their names blotted out. And yes there are books and the book of life. Everyone has to give an account of what they did good or bad. Those books and the book of life have nothing to do with Satan and his angels. They have already been judged to the Lake of Fire. Christ is talking to the churches.

BelieveItOarKnot said:

He flees from the person when we "see" that it is not "me" or "you."

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Again, we are told resist the devil and he will flee.

BelieveItOarKnot said:

That does not mean temptation stops or that anyone becomes sinless.

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I see that you ignore posts just as you do scripture. I just stated this just in my last post.

JulieB67 said:

And I have never stated anyone is sinless but it is possible to put God's will over our own.

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As for temptation that's why we are told this

I Corinthians 10:13 "There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, Who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it."

Do you honestly hold just to a few verses and throw out the rest of the Word? That's an honest question.

BelieveItOarKnot said:

Your religious fantasy position probably resides in your thinking you're sinless from time to time or that the tempter has no internal operations going on within your flesh. Common falsehood.

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Again, who states anyone is sinless? Why do you continue with that lie against many of us?? But it's God that tries and knows the heart. He knows who's sincere. We all fall short. But we can't go on sinning without caring and repentance and use the old "the devil made me do it". We have a choice. Sometimes we fail but that's where repentance and change of heart comes in.

BelieveItOarKnot said:

Are you going to trot our your "I am sinless" card now?

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Again, why do you continue with this lie?? You can go back to all of my posts and I make a point of stating no one is ever sinless while in the flesh. If you are going to continue to be "blinded" by posts that are written here, how I am I supposed to have an honest biblical conversation with you? You already ignore scripture and now you are ignoring posts as well?

BelieveItOarKnot said:

You might understand that the devil SINS in people and the person is not even involved in that sin.

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You continue to completely ignore the fact that Christ is telling the churches to repent or else. They are very much involved in their sin and are told to repent. That is not addressed to Satan and his angels.
Also, why is the Lord so long suffering if people are not involved in their sins? He's waiting for the devils to come to repentance, not willing them to perish? Is that it? The devils that have already been judged to the Lake of Fire?

Why is Christ earnestly telling people to repent of their sin to the churches??

BelieveItOarKnot said:

Ala Mark 4:15 for example.

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You can't keep trotting out this verse out of context. Many have already told you that is only one group.

I'll give you a verse from that parable


Mark 4:20 "And these are they which are sown on good ground; such as hear the word, and receive it, and bring forth fruit, some thirty fold, some sixty, and some an hundred."

These people heard the word on good round and received it. It wasn't stolen from the devil. That's the group we want to be in. We want to receive the word and bring forth fruit. Are these people going to be sinless? No but they did receive the Word and it wasn't stolen and they did bring forth fruit. Something we were created in Christ to do so.

BelieveItOarKnot said:

I can only imagine what that book looks like in some people's heads, when they sin, repent, sin, repent ad infinitum. A MESS.

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To you maybe it's a mess. But true repentance is a change of heart/to think differently. It's about putting his will over our own. Not to live for self but for him. Will that always happen while were in the flesh? No we will fall short. But the Holy Spirit will prevail if true repentance has set in. And thank God it's him that judges, not us.

Otherwise we remain in the dark, quite falsely justifying the "entirety" of ourselves, when in fact that never happens.

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I'm starting to realize you might not understand what real repentance means. Hopefully you will find out at some point. And maybe then it will get you more into the Word and not ignore questions about scripture, etc.

JulieB67 said:

That makes no sense within that verse. Again, Christ is talking to the churches

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The canard that Jesus is speaking to a limited audience doesn't cut it. Sorry.

Every Word He Speaks is for everyone. Matt. 4:4, Luke 4:4, Deut. 8:3

You only use that angle to eliminate His Words, or make the words fit your intents. Quite upside down methods, really.

JulieB67 said:

Those books and the book of life have nothing to do with Satan and his angels. They have already been judged to the Lake of Fire. Christ is talking to the churches.

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Well of course they have things to do with Satan and his messengers.

Don't you know Satan is automatically moved to resist God's Words via SIN in people? Satan doesn't have a choice in the matters either.

JulieB67 said:

I see that you ignore posts just as you do scripture. I just stated this just in my last post.

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Well, if you agree what you still "have sin" and your sin is of the devil, and you still have "temptation" via the tempter, how does that play into your "flee" theory?

JulieB67 said:

Do you honestly hold just to a few verses and throw out the rest of the Word? That's an honest question.

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We really have only 1 simple disconnect. When you read scripture you only "see in your mind" people or a person.

That is never the case with scripture. So every scripture you read is basically "tainted" with that falsehood and you are not technically hearing it all. And this results in your taking scriptures such as this:

Matthew 7:17

Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.

And you'll just automatically think within yourself, "well, I am a good tree" but "I am not a corrupt tree." "The other people are the corrupt tree."

Am I right?

JulieB67 said:

But we can't go on sinning

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Julie, you never stopped sinning. We all remain sinners, present tense, all the days of our earthly life.

The notions that we "stop sinning" and are then SINLESS are just complete lies. As are the notions that we "sin less" on our way to sinlessness in this present life. Another lie. And another lie, that we "repent" and are then "sinless" for a time. None of these things are true. They are all basic lies of the devil in people.

Fact is, we are sinners, plain and simple. And we are so because these pictures are never just about people. The scriptures are pictures of [the people and our adversary]. And our adversary is always a sinner.

So we have a fairly wide breach in how we read things. You have basically half a loaf. Which is probably better than none. But it's also only partly true as well.

JulieB67 said:

These people heard the word on good round and received it.

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See? There you example "how you read"

You only hear "people"

Part 1, Satan's theft never stopped and never stops. That part remains a constant through not only that parable, but every parable. That's how we understand all parables, by basic identification of all the parties involved.

God/people/the adversary

These are the critical components of every and all parables. Any time you hear a dissection and it's only people and God based and is missing the adversary, it's a half truth. And guess which party is ALWAYS missing? No surprises.

JulieB67 said:

To you maybe it's a mess. But true repentance is a change of heart/to think differently. It's about putting his will over our own. Not to live for self but for him. Will that always happen while were in the flesh? No we will fall short. But the Holy Spirit will prevail if true repentance has set in. And thank God it's him that judges, not us.

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I've lived that life ^^^

It's not accurate or true. And it is not true, because it's not just you in the equations.

JulieB67 said:

I'm starting to realize you might not understand what real repentance means. Hopefully you will find out at some point. And maybe then it will get you more into the Word and not ignore questions about scripture, etc.

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I can assure you that I am not about letting the adversary off the hook, as your positions present. And I also will not be letting SATAN force me into thinking my neighbors are going to burn alive forever or be eternally annihilated.

The half truth is no reward.

Only one of our sights is true, and that is the sight of loving our neighbors as ourselves. We start that by NOT thinking they are going to burn alive forever or be eternally annihilated, as if they never existed.

Which is greater, the disobdience of Adam or the sacrifice of God ...

BelieveItOarKnot said:

Julie, you never stopped sinning. We all remain sinners, present tense, all the days of our earthly life.

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Thanks for cutting my sentence in half to produce yet another lie I never stated. You know very well "we can't go on sinning" was not what I stated or meant.

The notions that we "stop sinning" and are then SINLESS are just complete lies. As are the notions that we "sin less" on our way to sinlessness in this present life. Another lie. And another lie, that we "repent" and are then "sinless" for a time. None of these things are true. They are all basic lies of the devil in people.

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Again, why the lies? I never stated anyone would ever be "sinless" and yet you continue to lie about that. I just realize that when we do sin as 1st John states that I have an advocate.

You know what's a lie? When we say we have fellowship and walk in darkness.

I John 1:6 "If we say that we have fellowship with Him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:"

I John 1:7 "But if we walk in the light, as He is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanseth us from all sin.

And yes, we do sin

I John 1:8 "If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us."

But-

I John 1:9 "If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness."

how does that play into your "flee" theory?

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Theory?

James 4:7 "Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you."

You must have a problem submitting yourself to God. But it's not a theory, it's the truth.


II Peter 2:9 "The Lord knoweth how to deliver the godly out of temptations, and to reserve the unjust unto the day of judgment to be punished:"

And you'll just automatically think within yourself, "well, I am a good tree" but "I am not a corrupt tree." "The other people are the corrupt tree.

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Are you stating you have never produced any "good fruit" for God? You don't have any good works at all, that come naturally from the heart?

Ephesians 2:10 "For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them."

And I see you once again you did not answer as to why God is so long suffering. I figured you would ignore that one. Especially since it refutes your belief completely.

or be eternally annihilated, as if they never existed.

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BelieveItOarKnot said:

Satan doesn't have a choice in the matters either

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Which is why it and the grave and death are discarded into the lake , being needed no more at the great transition.

BelieveItOarKnot said:

The notions that we "stop sinning" and are then SINLESS are just complete lies.

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This statement is true. We never stop being selfish as we are aware of our selfish nature. We can control it but never completely. Failing to let an undeserving individual in front of us in traffic is a fail and we are back to square one. Hating ourselves for that is a plus though.

Aseyesee said:

Which is greater, the disobdience of Adam or the sacrifice of God ...

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.... ; because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

timothyu said:

This statement is true. We never stop being selfish as we are aware of our selfish nature. We can control it but never completely. Failing to let an undeserving individual in front of us in traffic is a fail and we are back to square one. Hating ourselves for that is a plus though.

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Devils sin and they do so "in mankind."

It has zero to do with "human nature" or selfishness. It's simply demonic. And no one stops "them" from doing what they do, especially as it applies to Mark 7:21-23, the universal "test" of honesty.

JulieB67 said:

Thanks for cutting my sentence in half to produce yet another lie I never stated. You know very well "we can't go on sinning" was not what I stated or meant.

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Why don't you cut to the chase on the subject then?

You do realize that any attempt to "stop sinning" does not make anyone sinless, even for a nanosecond.

There are 3 types of sin:

Thought
Word
Deed

Eliminating the deed or the words simply makes sin less obvious, and that's all.

JulieB67 said:

You know what's a lie? When we say we have fellowship and walk in darkness.

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Which is what in your opinion? Darkness is meant for exposure, not coverups

JulieB67 said:

Theory?

James 4:7 "Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you."

You must have a problem submitting yourself to God. But it's not a theory, it's the truth.

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I asked you specifically that IF we all have sin as a present tense matter, (we do) and sin is "of the devil," (it is) THEN how does that play into your theory?

We are promised DOMINION, not ERADICATION

We can't have dominion over what we claim not to have (flee as in no longer in play)

JulieB67 said:

The word of God would state the very opposite. And in the end the wicked do not care about God one way or the other. That's the difference.

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And you still hear only people in the equations whilst simultaneously exempting yourself from the same "issues." It's just typical brand hypocrisy

BelieveItOarKnot said:

You do realize that any attempt to "stop sinning" does not make anyone sinless, even for a nanosecond.

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Of course no one is ever going to be "sinless". That's not the point. The point is the change that comes within us when one has come to true repentance/new way of thinking. And if we walk in the Spirit, it gets easier to not give into the flesh. Paul tells us this numerous times. Are you suggesting he's wasting his time?

But it appears that you think Christ and the writers of the NT (inspired by the Holy Spirit) are all wasting their time talking about repentance, renewing of one's mind, walking in the Spirit, putting God's will over our own...

BelieveItOarKnot said:

Devils sin and they do so "in mankind."

It has zero to do with "human nature" or selfishness. It's simply demonic. And no one stops "them" from doing what they do, especially as it applies to Mark 7:21-23, the universal "test" of honesty.

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You said Satan didn't have a choice ... how do you view the passages in Ezekiel?