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Watch: CNN Cuts Tulsi Gabbard Off as She Lays Out the Inconvenient Facts of the Russia Hoax

Bradskii

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But that's not what I asked. I asked if you could point out where I've praised what the Republicans do. But you can't because I haven't.
If we have Trump issuing an executive order cutting educational funds from organisations that allow transwomen to compete in sports and people are disagreeing with it, as a show of support for the order one might post a comment by a female athlete which says she's happy that they're banning men from women's sport. No further comment need be made. I don't know about you, but I class that as outright support for what Trump wants to do. Your mileage seems to vary.

If Trump guts USAid and people are complaining that it will result in countless deaths of women and children who need that aid then if one was to say that hey, those people aren't dead yet and it's only something that could happen then again, I don't know about you, but that doesn't strike me as someone who thinks cutting that aid is a bad thing. It seems obvious to me, as I'm sure it would be to most people, that it's a comment making excuses for those cuts, effectively supporting them.

What do you think..?
 
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BPPLEE

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Oh man - I hear you. I've just been through all this SO BAD with another commentor that repeatedly and rather obnoxiously reverts to one line posts like...

"You don't know what I think." (Then you're a really bad communicator because we've been discussing this for weeks!) It was a pattern spread across months with that guy. It got so bad I had to hit the IGNORE button on that one.

But you're right. If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, then it's the Duck Dynasty and the guy in the Chewbacca Bikini!
Yeah, I went through something like that with someone who posts the same thing over and over again. It's really annoying
 
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essentialsaltes

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Here's an interesting article on this topic:
In sum, corroboration for the assertion that Putin developed a “clear preference” for Trump before the election included one item that was backdated and too early, one that was post-election and too late
What the heck does this mean? Can intelligence neither form an opinion before the election nor after the election? Only judgments made on Election Night are valid?
 
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A2SG

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Actually, Clinton relied on quite a lot of dubious misinformation to make her claims of a STOLEN!!! election. I'd refer you to the article I linked in my last post. They pieced together a narrative that the intelligence community didn't even believe and then shouted it all over the media.
For a short while, as I recall, then.....

Nothing. No court cases, no calls to "fight like hell" that led to supporters storming the Capitol to prevent certification, no calls to state officials to "find" more votes.

Hardly comparable to Trump and his response to losing the 2020 election. That response continues to this day.

-- A2SG, Trump's pettiness truly knows no bounds....
 
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eclipsenow

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What the heck does this mean? Can intelligence neither form an opinion before the election nor after the election? Only judgments made on Election Night are valid?
Ha ha ha - I thought that as well! It's poor writing.

However, Miller has come out fighting! She's an ex-CIA agent that has street cred. She's also a Republican voter! Gabbard has zero street cred. These agents are lawyering up because Gabbard sounds poised to accuse them of treason. But of course, she's forced by Trump's obsessive need for revenge. NPD much? It's just revolting to hear Gabbard attack real agents who took real risks doing real trade-craft in the field. What a nasty piece of work she is - running like clockwork to the NPD's every whim!

It's the Salem Witch Hunt - all over again! :sick: And the thing is, because of the NPD's own knowledge that he does not measure up and is an awful piece of work himself - HE accuses the world of a witch hunt anytime his OWN behaviour actually causes real consequences....

Susan Miller, the agency’s head of counter-intelligence at the time of the election, told the Guardian that Gabbard’s allegations were based on false statements and basic misrepresentations of discoveries made by Miller’s team about Russian actions, which she insisted were based on multiple trusted and verified sources....​
....​
Until Wednesday, none of the other high-level officials named in Gabbard’s recent report – including James Clapper, her predecessor as national intelligence director; John Brennan, the former CIA director; or the ex-FBI director James Comey – had responded publicly to her allegations. Clapper and Brennan broke their silence for the first time on Wednesday with a jointly written op-ed article in the New York Times in which they called Gabbard’s allegations “patently false” and accused her of “rewrit[ing] history”.​
In an interview, Miller – who is not named in the national intelligence director’s public narrative – questioned Gabbard’s grasp of intelligence matters.
Gabbard, who has never worked on the House intelligence committee while she was a member of Congress, has criticized the “tradecraft” of agents who compiled the assessment of Russia’s election activities.​
“Has she ever met a Russian agent?” asked Miller, a 39-year agency veteran who served tours as CIA chief of station abroad. “Has she ever given diamonds to a Russian who’s giving us, you know? Has she ever walked on the streets of Moscow to do a dead drop? Has she ever handled an agent?
“No. She’s never done any of that. She clearly doesn’t understand this.”
Miller told the Guardian she was speaking out because Gabbard’s claims besmirched her work and and that of her team of up to eight members who worked on the Russia case.
“My reputation and my team’s reputation is on the line,” she said. “Tulsi comes out and doesn’t use my name, doesn’t use the names of the people in my team, but basically says this was all wrong and made up, et cetera.”​
Miller and her former team members have recently hired lawyers to defend themselves against charges that could put them in jail.
Miller has hired Mark Zaid, a prominent Washington defense attorney, to represent her.
The scenario reprises a situation she faced in 2017, when – still a serving officer – Miller hired a $1,500-an-hour lawyer to represent her after being told she might face criminal charges for her part in authoring the same intelligence report now being scrutinized by Gabbard.​
Investigators interviewed her for up to eight hours as part of a trawl to ferret out possible law-breaking under Obama that eventually that culminated in Bill Barr, the attorney general in Trump’s first administration, appointing a special counsel, John Durham, to conduct an inquiry into the FBI’s investigation of links between the Trump campaign and Russia.​
“They were asking things like: ‘Who told you to write this and who told you to come to these conclusions?’” Miller recalled.
“I told them: ‘Nobody did. If anybody had told us to come to certain conclusions, all of us would have quit. There’s no way, all none of us ever had a reputation for falsifying anything, before anything or after.’”
No charges were brought against her, but nor was she told the case was closed.​
Durham’s 2023 report concluded that the FBI should never have launched its full investigation, called “Crossfire Hurricane” into the alleged Trump-Russia links. But his four-year investigation was something of a disappointment to Trump and his supporters, bringing just three criminal prosecutions, resulting in a single conviction – of an FBI lawyer who admitted to altering an email to support a surveillance application.
It is this ground that is now being re-covered by Gabbard in what may be a Trump-inspired bid for “retribution” against political enemies who he has accused of subjecting him to a political witch-hunt.​
But the crusade, Miller says, is underpinned by false premise – that the Russia interference findings were a “hoax”, a description long embraced by Trump and repeated by Gabbard in her 18 July report.​
“It is not a hoax,” she said. “This was based on real intelligence. It’s reporting we were getting from verified agents and from other verified streams of intelligence.
“It was so clear [the Russians] were doing that, that it was never in issue back in 2016. It’s only an issue now because Tulsi wants it to be.”
Briefing journalists at the White House last week, Gabbard cited a 2020 House of Representatives intelligence committee report – supported only by its Republican members – asserting that Putin’s goal in the election was to “undermine faith in the US democratic process, not showing any preference of a certain candidate”.​
Miller dismissed that. “The information led us to the correct conclusion that [the interference] was in Trump’s favor – the Republican party and Trump’s favor,” she said. Indeed, Putin himself – standing alongside Trump at a news conference during a summit meeting in Helsinki in 2018 – confirmed to journalists that he had wanted his US counterpart to win.​
Rebuffing suggestions that she or her team may be guilty of pro-Democrat bias, she said she was a registered Republican voter. Her team consisted of Republicans, Democrats and “centrists”, she said.​
Gabbard has claimed that agents were pressured – at Obama’s instigation – into fabricating intelligence in the weeks after Trump’s victory, allegedly to raise questions about its electoral legitimacy and weaken his presidency.
“BS... That’s not true,” said Miller. “This had to do with our sources and what they were finding. It had nothing to do with Obama telling us to do this. We found it, and we’re like, what do we do with this?”
At the core of Gabbard’s critique are two assertions that Miller says conflates separate issues.
One is based on media reports of briefings from Obama administration officials a month after Trump’s victory, including one claiming that Russia used “cyber products” to influence “the outcome of the election”. Gabbard writes that this is contradicted by Obama’s admission that there was no “evidence of [voting] machines being tampered with” to alter the vote tally, meaning that the eventual assessment finding of Russian interference must be false.​
Miller dismisses that as a red herring, since the CIA’s assessment – ultimately endorsed by other intelligence agencies – was never based on assumptions of election machine hacking....
...Miller also denied Gabbard’s claim that the intelligence community’s “high level of confidence” in Russian interference had been bolstered by “‘further information” that turned out to be an unverified dossier written by Christopher Steele, a former British intelligence officer, which suggested possible collusion between Russia and Trump.
So there it is! Miller is also saying NO - they never concluded voting machines were hacked, and NO - they never based their intelligence on the Steele report.

But that doesn't stop Gabbard reasserting these tired old lies. It doesn't stop MAGA supporters in here repeating the same lies.

Are we supposed to feel sorry for her situation? If she doesn't like working for someone with NPD - she should do the honourable thing and confront him publicly and get fired by him! She might get to write a book about it.
 
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probinson

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What the heck does this mean? Can intelligence neither form an opinion before the election nor after the election? Only judgments made on Election Night are valid?

Tell me you didn't read the article without telling me you didn't read the article.

It's saying that the pieces of "evidence" they had that Putin preferred Trump were dubious at best, and that the intelligence officers didn't even want to include them in the report because they didn't meet even the most basic of their standards, but Brennan overrode them and required them to be included anyway, because they were the core pillars on which their narrative was built.
 
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probinson

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For a short while, as I recall, then.....

Nothing. No court cases, no calls to "fight like hell" that led to supporters storming the Capitol to prevent certification, no calls to state officials to "find" more votes.

Nothing, except riots across America, calls to override the electoral college, petitions to make Clinton President. You know. Democracy as it was intended. :doh:
 
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probinson

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If we have Trump issuing an executive order cutting educational funds from organisations that allow transwomen to compete in sports and people are disagreeing with it, as a show of support for the order one might post a comment by a female athlete which says she's happy that they're banning men from women's sport. No further comment need be made. I don't know about you, but I class that as outright support for what Trump wants to do. Your mileage seems to vary.

I don't think men should play in women's sports. Neither do most Americans, including a majority of Democrats.

A recent New York Times/Ipsos survey found the vast majority of Americans, including a majority of Democrats, don’t think transgender athletes should be permitted to compete in women’s sports.
“Thinking about transgender female athletes — meaning athletes who were male at birth but who currently identify as female — do you think they should or should not be allowed to compete in women’s sports?” the survey asked.
Of the 2,128 people who participated, 79% said biological males who identify as women should not be allowed to participate in women’s sports.
Of the 1,025 people who identified as Democrats or leaning Democrat, 67% said transgender athletes should not be allowed to compete with women.
Among 1,022 Republicans, that number was 94%.

If Trump guts USAid and people are complaining that it will result in countless deaths of women and children who need that aid then if one was to say that hey, those people aren't dead yet and it's only something that could happen then again, I don't know about you, but that doesn't strike me as someone who thinks cutting that aid is a bad thing. It seems obvious to me, as I'm sure it would be to most people, that it's a comment making excuses for those cuts, effectively supporting them.

I quoted what an article said about how something could happen, and said that I didn't have enough information to know if the funding cuts that were being would result in the apoplectic consequences that everyone was shrieking about.

Trump likes to drink Coke. I like to drink Coke. By this inane standard, I "support" Trump because both he and I agree on something.

But agreement on a specific policy position does not indicate "support" for that candidate and/or party in general. Surely you must know that.

Or maybe you don't. God forbid Trump come out and make a public statement that he likes puppies. Then you'd have to run around kicking every puppy you saw to make sure people knew you didn't "support" him.
 
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The Barbarian

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For perspective, we should revisit the results of the Russiagate scandal.

Here's a breakdown of indictments and cases in Mueller's probe


Eight Trump underlings indicted, convicted, or pleading guilty to crimes related to the Russian collusion case. Yes, Trump pardoned most of them, the ones who remained loyal to him. But criminals are criminals, pardoned or not.

It's notable that none of them were found guilty of as many felonies as Trump was found guilty of committing.
 
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The Barbarian

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Nothing, except riots across America, calls to override the electoral college, petitions to make Clinton President.
But you can't document even one legal challenge? On the other hand, Trump launched dozens of lawsuits in a vain attempt to overturn the election he lost to Biden.

No assault on the Capitol, as Trump ordered his followers to do? We all know why.
 
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probinson

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But you can't document even one legal challenge? No assault on the Capitol, as Trump ordered his followers to do? We all know why.

Correct.

But you know, burning cities is perfectly acceptable when you disagree with the outcome of an election. I guess.
 
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The Barbarian

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But you know, burning cities is perfectly acceptable when you disagree with the outcome of an election. I guess.

That story fell apart rather quickly.

One of America's top generals told Stephen Miller to (shut up) after the Trump advisor suggested that protesters had turned US cities into war zones, a new book reportedly says.
...
During one debate in the Oval Office, Bender reportedly wrote, Miller said the protests reminded him of a war zone.
"These cities are burning," Miller was quoted as saying.
Milley turned around in his seat, pointed his finger at Miller, and said, (shut up) Stephen,"


(warning; explicit language at the link)

But name us a city that burned. What do you have?

The point remains.
Hillary Clinton conceded the day after the election, and told her followers to give Trump a chance.

Trump refused to accept his loss to Biden, launched dozens of failed lawsuits, and sent his followers to the Capitol to stop the certification, telling them to "fight like hell." Which many of them did, attacking police, looting congressional offices, and seeing to hang the VP. Eventually troops had to be called to stop the insurrection.

Nothing more clearly shows the difference.
 
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probinson

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But name us a city that burned. What do you have?

Start watching at the 3:50 mark.


Here are some stills from the video.

Screenshot 2025-08-06 at 11.35.51 AM.png


Screenshot 2025-08-06 at 11.36.44 AM.png


Screenshot 2025-08-06 at 11.37.14 AM.png


Of course, this is probably classified as "mostly peaceful" by a select few.
 
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probinson

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One of America's top generals told Stephen Miller to (shut up) after the Trump advisor suggested that protesters had turned US cities into war zones, a new book reportedly says.
...
During one debate in the Oval Office, Bender reportedly wrote, Miller said the protests reminded him of a war zone.
"These cities are burning," Miller was quoted as saying.
Milley turned around in his seat, pointed his finger at Miller, and said, (shut up) Stephen,"

\

C'mon man. This link isn't even talking about the riots that resulted from Trump's election in 2016. It's talking about BLM protests.

Screenshot 2025-08-06 at 11.46.12 AM.png
 
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The Barbarian

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But name us a city that burned. What do you have?
(videos offered in which no cities burned)

So no cites burned after all? Can you name even one city that actually burned in 2016?

In 2016, Clinton conceded the day after the election and told her followers to give Trump a chance.

In 2020, Trump refused to concede when he lost to Biden, launched numerous lawsuits, tried to get Georgia to fake the results (his phone call was recorded asking one official to "find" more votes for him) and sent a mob of follower to the Capitol in a failed insurrection to stop Biden from being certified. Ultimately, he was impeached for those crimes.

That's the difference.
 
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The Barbarian

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C'mon man. This link isn't even talking about the riots that resulted from Trump's election in 2016.
So they lied more than once about "cities burning?" No one is surprised. I notice you still can't show us one city that burned. And notice that Clinton openly conceded and told her followers to give Trump a chance, while Trump tried to overturn the election and sent his followers to the Capitol in an attempt to overturn certification of Biden as president.

And that's the difference. Learn to accept the reality.
 
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probinson

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But name us a city that burned. What do you have?
(videos offered in which no cities burned)

Do you know what fire looks like? People were shooting fireworks and tossing fire bombs at police officers. Of course, you'd know that if you'd watched the videos, or even looked at the screen grabs I posted.


In 2016, Clinton conceded the day after the election and told her followers to give Trump a chance.

Also In 2016 (and beyond), Clinton went on a media tour whining about how the election had been STOLEN!!! from her and claimed, repeatedly, that Trump was an "illegitimate President".
 
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probinson

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So they lied more than once about "cities burning?"

You're not even going to acknowledge that you used a faulty source for your claim? Alrighty then.

No one is surprised.

Boy, ain't that the truth!

I notice you still can't show us one city that burned.

Do you dispute that fireworks and fire bombs were hurled at police in protests over Trump's election? Both of those things cause fire. If you watched the video, you saw the fire, you saw the people smashing windows, hurling trash cans. This is not the "peaceful" transfer of power you are trying to portray.
 
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Say it aint so

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You are correct, and I will retract that statement.

However, none of what was classified as "interference" amounted to the election being STOLEN!!!
I don't disagree with that.
I think it should be concerning how willing the Trump campaign was to meet with Russians in light of Russia soliciting help.
I know Trump has said outright he should hear them out as if it was his duty.
 
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probinson

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Learn to accept the reality.

That's good advice. Here's the reality of what happened after Trump was elected in 2016.

During the riot, glass bottles and trash cans were thrown at police. Rioters used rocks and baseball bats to cause much of the damage. A dumpster was also lit on fire.[9]Members of the protest who opposed the violence intervened when a man tried to destroy a piece of electrical equipment with a bat. Another altercation began when a woman began throwing laundry detergent at people in the crowd.[10]
...
A reporter for local television station KOIN was assaulted.[4] In reaction to the ongoing disturbances, police closed Pioneer Courthouse Square and a two-block perimeter around the park, and warned that anyone who remained would face arrest.[4] Two other people were also assaulted, and a total of 62 people have been arrested as a result of the rioting and other disturbances.[5] On November 13, police updated the figure of total arrests to 113, with 71 arrested on November 12 alone.[6] Protesters reportedly threw lit road flares at police officers.[13]
...
By the fourth day of the riots, Portland police chief Mike Marshman estimated that damages exceeded $1 million.
 
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