How does the idea that most of Gods creation he will have to burn forever bring glory to God?

BelieveItOarKnot said:

Not as much as your positions try to eliminate them based on context.

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The verses that you post to support your position are usually refuted within the same chapter.

BelieveItOarKnot said:

fwiw, only the position that actually loves our neighbors is the correct one

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Yep. You should know but you only pasted the verse that agreed with you and discounted the verse that disagreed with you.

“Beloved, let’s love one another; for love is from God, and everyone who loves has been born of God and knows God. The one who does not love does not know God, because God is love.”
‭‭1 John‬ ‭4‬:‭7‬-‭8‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

The ones that love will love their neighbors while the ones that do not love will not love their neighbors. See, is not hard.

BelieveItOarKnot said:

Uh, the devil and his messengers.

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Nah, nothing in these scriptures isolating just the devil and his messengers. In fact, we know of at least one group that will receive extra condemnation. The following verses follow DIRECTLY after Luke 20:42-43.

““Beware of the scribes, who like to walk around in long robes, and love personal greetings in the marketplaces, and chief seats in the synagogues and places of honor at banquets, who devour widows’ houses, and for appearance’s sake offer long prayers. These will receive all the more condemnation.””
‭‭Luke‬ ‭20‬:‭46‬-‭47‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

Are the scribes satan or his messengers?

BelieveItOarKnot said:

Why can't your positions see the OBVIOUS?

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My position are strictly biblical while yours requires out of context verses and mental gymnastics. If your position was so obvious then everyone would believe it but that is far from happening. Even the early church called it anathema.

Hentenza said:

The verses that you post to support your position are usually refuted within the same chapter.

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I really don't know where you get the ideas that scriptures are eliminated by each others. That kind of argument isn't logical, though often used by various sectarian proponents to eliminate the O.T. laws for example or eliminating applicability of scriptures they don't like.

But generally speaking that methodology is simply false and misuse of scripture. ALL scripture is valid for everyone, per Jesus, Matt. 4:4, Luke 4:4, Deut. 8:3

Hentenza said:

Nah, nothing in these scriptures isolating just the devil and his messengers. In fact, we know of at least one group that will receive extra condemnation. The following verses follow DIRECTLY after Luke 20:42-43.

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Jesus drew the lines between people an devils. It is your positions that can not differentiate the parties. But that's not unusual. Spiritually blinded positions can't pick up on it by Divine Decree. Mark 4:15

Hentenza said:

Are the scribes satan or his messengers?

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Again, you only see people in these equations.

No matter how many times the obvious is pointed out to you, you simply and automatically, in your own mind, see only PEOPLE. It's actually funny to me that you can't see it. But you simply can't, no matter what. Your mind will continue to divert to condemning your neighbors and missing the adversary.

BelieveItOarKnot said:

I really don't know where you get the ideas that scriptures are eliminated by each others. That kind of argument isn't logical, though often used by various sectarian proponents to eliminate the O.T. laws for example or eliminating applicability of scriptures they don't like.

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Never said scripture eliminate other scripture. Do you know what hermeneutics is? Scripture interprets scripture. When you take verses in isolation you remove all context, author intent, and extended teachings among others. You guys are the ones that rely on doing exactly that.

Here is a primer on hermeneutics that might help you.

“Biblical hermeneutics is the method of interpreting Scripture so we can bridge the gaps between modern-day readers of the Bible, its original audiences, and God as its ultimate author.”



Do you follow the 613 laws of the old covenant?

BelieveItOarKnot said:

But generally speaking that methodology is simply false and misuse of scripture. ALL scripture is valid for everyone, per Jesus, Matt. 4:4, Luke 4:4, Deut. 8:3

Jesus drew the lines between people an devils. It is your positions that can not differentiate the parties. But that's not unusual. Spiritually blinded positions can't pick up on it by Divine Decree. Mark 4:15

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I don’t know what you are saying here or even how to take this. Are you accusing me of being spiritually blinded?

BelieveItOarKnot said:

Again, you only see people in these equations.

No matter how many times the obvious is pointed out to you, you simply and automatically, in your own mind, see only PEOPLE. It's actually funny to me that you can't see it. But you simply can't, no matter what. Your mind will continue to divert to condemning your neighbors and missing the adversary.

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Hard to see what isn’t there.

When everything and everyone who is enemy of truth is gone, GLORY!

Hentenza said:

Never said scripture eliminate other scripture

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Well sure you do.

You can actually believe every Word and not have to change a thing or "modify the meaning" by "context."

IF every Word is true, then there is no modification necessary. It ALL applies to everyone.

Hard place to get to, I know.

Hentenza said:

Do you follow the 613 laws of the old covenant?

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No one follows the laws. Just because they are there and true doesn't mean we comply.

The evil present within NO ONE complies.

Does that mean people are "entirely" evil? No! There is another party involved with our present dilemma. Our adversary, the tempter, the devil and his own. Your positions have no account for this side of things. This is "how" all the Words apply to everyone.

There is no such thing as an "individual" in scripture, save for the sole exemption, Christ.

Hentenza said:

I don’t know what you are saying here or even how to take this. Are you accusing me of being spiritually blinded?

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We "ALL" see only in part. Which means we're all technically part blind. And yes, including spiritually.

It's a partly cloudy day for everyone.

BelieveItOarKnot said:

Well sure you do.

You can actually believe every Word and not have to change a thing or "modify the meaning" by "context."

IF every Word is true, then there is no modification necessary. It ALL applies to everyone.

Hard place to get to, I know.

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So you reject hermeneutics, reading verses in context, annd taking into account the author’s intended meaning. This is not a place I want to be. It’s no wonder that you believe error.

BelieveItOarKnot said:

It's a partly cloudy day for everyone.

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Nah. Maybe for you. For me I’ll continue to rejoice as the writer of Psalms 35 do eloquently states. My days are mild and sunny.

“¶So my soul shall rejoice in the Lord; It shall rejoice in His salvation.”
‭‭Psalm‬ ‭35‬:‭9‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

There is no reason for you and me to continue this conversation since reading the Bible requires comprehension brought about through the proper study of scriptures. May the Lord bless you.

Jeff Saunders said:

I ask you how does God losing most of his creation and then having to burn it forever bring glory to God?
Does not the idea that God knew what he was doing, and had a plan, and had all that it would take to accomplish the plan, to bring all his creation into a love with him, forever and sin and death are no more, and God will be all in all. Does this not bring more glory to God?

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Hey Jeff,

This is delicate to say, but we ALL suffer from the same limitation: Pride. It is very prideful even to think that we can ever come close to understanding God's designs.
Firstly, we can (obviously) only use our limited, imperfect human intelligence to try to understand God and His sometimes incomprehensible ways.
BUT
Secondly, I always find it great to try at least to think about these things that seem to us to be so, um, odd.

Thank you for bringing your concerns up. For many years I was part of "Catholic Answers Forums" (now Catholic-Questions.org), and some of the most interesting discussions arose from anyone questioning basic Christian doctrine that was difficult to understand.

Dominus tecum ("the Lord be with you" in Latin),
Reg

R.W. Smith said:

Hey Jeff,

This is delicate to say, but we ALL suffer from the same limitation: Pride. It is very prideful even to think that we can ever come close to understanding God's designs.
Firstly, we can (obviously) only use our limited, imperfect human intelligence to try to understand God and His sometimes incomprehensible ways.
BUT

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Secondly, I always find it great to try at least to think about these things that seem to us to be so, um, odd.
Thank you for bringing your concerns up. For many years I was part of "Catholic Answers Forums" (now Catholic-Questions.org), and some of the most interesting discussions arose from anyone questioning basic Christian doctrine that was difficult to understand.
Dominus tecum ("the Lord be with you" in Latin),
Reg

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Is "the Lord be with you" not "Dominus vobiscum"?

"The Lord is with you is" "Dominus tecum."