But Is It Truth?

Christsfreeservant · Saturday at 7:30 PM

If we are going to be sharing with others the truth of the gospel of Christ and the truth of the Scriptures, we need to make certain that we are getting our truth from the Scriptures, and not just from human beings, no matter how famous they may be. For the Scriptures teach that God will also speak to us through the Holy Spirit.

Christsfreeservant · Sunday at 12:18 AM

Aaron112 said:
That source you have quoted in the op is not to be trusted, ever. Proven decades ago - simple internet search verified.
Oh, people "like" it, but wrongly so, deceived .... as written - what people like, what they hold up as if good/ in high esteem,
Jesus calls an abomination (Jesus sees right thru the hypocrits and false teachings every time, all the time

I am sorry, but I don't know your meaning here. Please explain.

enoob57 · Sunday at 3:40 AM

I choose to use what God has supplied and guaranteed…
Hebrews 4:12 (KJV)
12For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
2 Timothy 3:15-17 (KJV)
15And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.
16All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
17That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

Christsfreeservant · Sunday at 5:28 AM

enoob57 said:
I choose to use what God has supplied and guaranteed…
Hebrews 4:12 (KJV)
12For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
2 Timothy 3:15-17 (KJV)
15And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.
16All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
17That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

It is not an either/or choice. The written word is not the exclusion of the voice of the Holy Spirit, and the voice of the Holy Spirit is not to the exclusion of the written word. They go hand in hand, and the Spirit's voice should not be contradictory to the teachings of the Scriptures or it is not the Spirit's voice we are hearing. But God supplied us with the Holy Spirit, and God told us that we should be hearing the Spirit's voice and that we are to be led by the Spirit of God or we are not children of God. This is how we know what our calling from God is to be, and what he would have us write about, and to whom he would have us to speak, and what, and when, and where God would have us to live or work, etc.

enoob57 · Sunday at 9:41 AM

Christsfreeservant said:
The written word is not the exclusion of the voice of the Holy Spirit

According to the leading of scripture, it should be only scripture that we rely upon as foundation for all else

Christsfreeservant said:
God told us that we should be hearing the Spirit's voice

Chapter and verse please

NBB · Sunday at 10:03 AM

Maybe he referred that if it contradicts the bible is not from God.
But if he thinks God is not going to speak ever again, thats bad.
That cessationist view, God gifts include prophecy and words of knowledge, that means God speaks through those.
And if you are filled with the Holy spirit, you don't escape that some day he will let you know something.

Christsfreeservant · Sunday at 10:23 AM

enoob57 said:
According to the leading of scripture, it should be only scripture that we rely upon as foundation for all else

Chapter and verse please

I quoted Scripture and I gave Scripture references in the OP. Did you not read them?

Christsfreeservant · Sunday at 10:26 AM

NBB said:
Maybe he referred that if it contradicts the bible is not from God.
But if he thinks God is not going to speak ever again, thats bad.
That cessationist view, God gifts include prophecy and words of knowledge, that means God speaks through those.
And if you are filled with the Holy spirit, you don't escape that some day he will let you know something.

I have heard him speak many times over several years and he has made it quite clear what he means.

enoob57 · Sunday at 11:42 AM

God tells us of His sufficiency of scripture by these verses ‘thoroughly furnished’
2 Timothy 3:15-17 (KJV)
15And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.
16All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
17That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

To say that the Holy Spirit speaks today of things needed is to also say that the scripture is not enough (it does not thoroughly furnish) therefore, the Spirit is presently doing work and speaking to children of God outside of scripture, which is not in agreement with scripture!

It really boils down too. Are we going to let the scripture speak for itself or are we going to speak for it and interpret it according to what we think?

enoob57 · Sunday at 11:48 AM

Christsfreeservant said:
I quoted Scripture and I gave Scripture references in the OP. Did you not read them?

And none of them claim what you were claiming that they say! I am just asking for a verse that speaks of us today that the Holy Spirit is talking to us outside of his Word?

NBB · Sunday at 11:57 AM

enoob57 said:
And none of them claim what you were claiming that they say! I am just asking for a verse that speaks of us today that the Holy Spirit is talking to us outside of his Word?

Is all over the place, the same there were some women prophets that warned Paul, today this didn't stop, what is not biblical is cessationism.

enoob57 · Sunday at 3:01 PM

NBB said:
Is all over the place, the same there were some women prophets that warned Paul, today this didn't stop, what is not biblical is cessationism.

One common denominator in the error of doctrine with ‘scripture plus’ is always the missing of the transitional nature of going from the Old Testament to the New Testament. They did not have the scriptures. Therefore there is things that must be considered within the New Testament formation that’s not going forward- simple really, I asked for scripture and you gave me Really nothing… I am just asking for a verse that speaks of us today that the Holy Spirit is talking to us outside of his Word?

tdidymas · Sunday at 3:42 PM

Christsfreeservant said:
View attachment 367961

If we are going to be sharing with others the truth of the gospel of Christ and the truth of the Scriptures, we need to make certain that we are getting our truth from the Scriptures, and not just from human beings, no matter how famous they may be. For the Scriptures teach that God will also speak to us through the Holy Spirit.

If you're advocating listening to modern prophets, then I warn you, they are a dime a dozen - meaning all self-proclaimed prophets and self-proclaimed apostles are false. But the reason why people want to believe in prophets who "have a word from God" for them is because they are lazy and impatient, and want a shortcut to God's will for them without the blood, sweat, and tears of learning the Bible and what God says is His will there.

You quote some verses (which I agree with) and make some statements (which I agree with, since God does speak to individuals), but what is really your point? Are you saying that God speaks new things to people, or are you saying God speaks His word out of the Bible to the spirit of individuals? I agree with the latter and disagree with the former. Certainly people are illuminated by God's word, as in Heb. 4:12. People can obtain wisdom from knowledge of scripture, aiding them in making right choices. But in regard to doctrine and theology, the canon is closed, and there is "nothing new under the sun" in that regard.

In regard to your objection to MacArthur's statement, it's a matter of semantics and point of view. You admitted that the Spirit will not say anything that contradicts scripture. So then, in a sense, aren't you essentially in agreement with MacArthur?

St_Worm2 · Sunday at 4:34 PM

Hello Sue (@Christsfreeservant), you asked the question "But is it truth?". If by that you are referring to the OP statement, "if you don't have it in the 66 books of the Bible, God didn't say it", my very first thought about that was, "what context is that statement found in?".

So, I went looking (which usually works in the case of MacArthur's teachings since the body of his work is accessible online to all & for free :oldthumbsup:

).

After searching at his ministry's website (GTY.org) and his church's, I tried a couple of search engines (Google and Duck-Duck-Go), and when those didn't yield anything, I tried a couple of different Ai searches (and finally, a "deeper (Ai) search"). The result was the same however, though the Ai searches did uncover several online memes (with MacArthur preaching and those words printed on top of his picture).

The thing is, none of the memes trace back to him, to his broadcast ministry, or to his church. IOW, there is no evidence that he ever said or wrote those particular words, or anything close to them (though the Ai results did mention that, like many other Protestant preachers or theologians, MacArthur may have used similar words in a private setting, like in a seminary classroom when teaching on topics like "Sola Scriptura", why the Canon doesn't include the Apocrypha, etc.). Sadly, that would mean that they were not recorded or even spoken of afterwards in a public forum (because if they were, a search engine, and particularly an Ai search, would be able to find them).

Of course, I realize that I could be wrong about this, that I (and all of the searches that I did) could have missed something, so (assuming that he did make the OP statement), please tell us where you found MacArthur saying, "if you don't have it in the 66 books of the Bible, God didn't say it", so that we can see the context and understand his reason for saying what he did.

The fact is, the above statement, by itself, cannot be said to be true or false (or said to make sense or not) apart from the context that it is found in, which is why knowing it is so vital to this discussion.

Thank you for your help with this

God bless you!!

--David

St_Worm2 · Sunday at 4:48 PM

Hello again Sue, et al, in case you do not know, the Holy Scriptures are one of the principal things that are at the very heart of John MacArthur's ministry and teachings, as is the absolute necessity of the ministry of the Holy Spirit in the lives of believers, especially in regard to our both knowing and understanding the truth of the Scriptures from His Divine POV.

MacArthur wrote & preached extensively on topics like, Sola Scriptura, the Canon of Scripture, how to interpret the Scriptures, the Sufficiency of the Scriptures, etc., etc., so finding out what he believes and teaches about the Scriptures and/or about the Holy Spirit and His work in our lives in regard to the Scriptures, should not be difficult (save the time factor, of course, because there is SO much material from him to go through).

--David

NBB · Sunday at 5:11 PM

tdidymas said:
If you're advocating listening to modern prophets, then I warn you, they are a dime a dozen - meaning all self-proclaimed prophets and self-proclaimed apostles are false. But the reason why people want to believe in prophets who "have a word from God" for them is because they are lazy and impatient, and want a shortcut to God's will for them without the blood, sweat, and tears of learning the Bible and what God says is His will there.

You quote some verses (which I agree with) and make some statements (which I agree with, since God does speak to individuals), but what is really your point? Are you saying that God speaks new things to people, or are you saying God speaks His word out of the Bible to the spirit of individuals? I agree with the latter and disagree with the former. Certainly people are illuminated by God's word, as in Heb. 4:12. People can obtain wisdom from knowledge of scripture, aiding them in making right choices. But in regard to doctrine and theology, the canon is closed, and there is "nothing new under the sun" in that regard.

In regard to your objection to MacArthur's statement, it's a matter of semantics and point of view. You admitted that the Spirit will not say anything that contradicts scripture. So then, in a sense, aren't you essentially in agreement with MacArthur?

Where it says, apostles and prophets are no more, and we need only evangelists, pastors, and teachers?

11 He gave some to be apostles, prophets, evangelists, pastors, and teachers, 12 for the equipping of the saints, for the work of service, and for the building up of the body of Christ, 13 until we all come into the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, into a complete man, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ, 14 so we may no longer be children, tossed here and there by waves and carried about with every wind of doctrine by the trickery of men, by craftiness with deceitful scheming. 15 But, speaking the truth in love, we may grow up in all things into Him, who is the head, Christ Himself, 16 from whom the whole body is joined together and connected by every joint and ligament, as every part effectively does its work and grows, building itself up in love.

Christsfreeservant · Sunday at 8:19 PM

St_Worm2 said:
Hello Sue (@Christsfreeservant), you asked the question "But is it truth?". If by that you are referring to the OP statement, "if you don't have it in the 66 books of the Bible, God didn't say it", my very first thought about that was, "what context is that statement found in?".

So, I went looking (which usually works in the case of MacArthur's teachings since the body of his work is accessible online to all & for free ).

After searching at his ministry's website (GTY.org) and his church's, I tried a couple of search engines (Google and Duck-Duck-Go), and when those didn't yield anything, I tried a couple of different Ai searches (and finally, a "deeper (Ai) search"). The result was the same however, though the Ai searches did uncover several online memes (with MacArthur preaching and those words printed on top of his picture).

The thing is, none of the memes trace back to him, to his broadcast ministry, or to his church. IOW, there is no evidence that he ever said or wrote those particular words, or anything close to them (though the Ai results did mention that, like many other Protestant preachers or theologians, MacArthur may have used similar words in a private setting, like in a seminary classroom when teaching on topics like "Sola Scriptura", why the Canon doesn't include the Apocrypha, etc.). Sadly, that would mean that they were not recorded or even spoken of afterwards in a public forum (because if they were, a search engine, and particularly an Ai search, would be able to find them).

Of course, I realize that I could be wrong about this, that I (and all of the searches that I did) could have missed something, so (assuming that he did make the OP statement), please tell us where you found MacArthur saying, "if you don't have it in the 66 books of the Bible, God didn't say it", so that we can see the context and understand his reason for saying what he did.

The fact is, the above statement, by itself, cannot be said to be true or false (or said to make sense or not) apart from the context that it is found in, which is why knowing it is so vital to this discussion.

Thank you for your help with this

God bless you!!

--David

Not the same exact words but this was a very central part of his doctrine and teaching. I did search it before I posted it. And I have personally heard him teach it over and over. I did find this on YouTube: Well, not showing up. Will try again.

Christsfreeservant · Sunday at 8:21 PM

Christsfreeservant said:
Not the same exact words but this was a very central part of his doctrine and teaching. I did search it before I posted it. And I have personally heard him teach it over and over. I did find this on YouTube: Well, not showing up. Will try again.

Christsfreeservant · Sunday at 8:23 PM

I have a bad headache. Will get back later.

Christsfreeservant · Sunday at 10:08 PM

enoob57 said:
God tells us of His sufficiency of scripture by these verses ‘thoroughly furnished’
2 Timothy 3:15-17 (KJV)
15And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.
16All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
17That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

To say that the Holy Spirit speaks today of things needed is to also say that the scripture is not enough (it does not thoroughly furnish) therefore, the Spirit is presently doing work and speaking to children of God outside of scripture, which is not in agreement with scripture!

It really boils down too. Are we going to let the scripture speak for itself or are we going to speak for it and interpret it according to what we think?

The Holy Spirit

There are some people, some who preach the Scriptures, who believe that the only way that we can hear from God is through the written word of God in the 66 books of the Bible (Genesis to Revelation). And so if you were to say, “God said to me,” or “God showed me,” or “God led me to,” they would...

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But Is It Truth?

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