Can Salvation be lost?

enoob57 · Jul 18, 2025

1 John 2:15-16 (KJV)
15Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him.
16For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.

God says this about His Word
Hebrews 4:12 (KJV)
12For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

when listening to Joel Osteen, it is very clear, He is about the world and the things in it! He says it’s God’s blessing, but is it?

friend of · Jul 18, 2025

zoidar said:
That is if you believe this to be about individual salvation.

Why wouldn't it though? Rom 9 specifically names two individuals, Jacob and Esau

zoidar · Jul 18, 2025

friend of said:
Why wouldn't it though? Rom 9 specifically names two individuals, Jacob and Esau

Because Romans 9 isn’t about individual salvation. it’s about God's covenant, how His promises haven’t failed, and His sovereign right to choose any nation or people, along with the terms by which His covenant would be fulfilled.

The LORD said to her,
“Two nations are in your womb;
And two peoples will be separated from your body;
And one people shall be stronger than the other;
And the older shall serve the younger.”
When her days to be delivered were fulfilled, behold, there were twins in her womb. Now the first came forth red, all over like a hairy garment; and they named him Esau. Afterward his brother came forth with his hand holding on to Esau’s heel, so his name was called Jacob; and Isaac was sixty years old when she gave birth to them.
— Genesis 25:23-26

BobRyan · Jul 18, 2025

Trivalee said:
There are differing views on salvation.

Some Christians believe that once saved, one cannot lose salvation. IOW, they believe that eternal life is guaranteed. On the flip side, there are those that believe that even though we are saved, we still have the risk of losing our and eternal life if we fail to abide in Christ until the end of our mortal life.

What is your position on this topic? Kindly support your case with relevant scriptures.

Matt 18 ends with "forgiveness revoked"
John 15 "branches in ME... broken off and case into the fire -- burned up"
Heb 6:2-9 salvation lost
Gal 5:1-7 "severed from Christ", "fallen from grace"
Rom 11 "you stand only by your faith... you should fear.. for if He did not spare them neither will HE spare you"

friend of · Jul 19, 2025

zoidar said:
Because Romans 9 isn’t about individual salvation. it’s about God's covenant, how His promises haven’t failed, and His sovereign right to choose any nation or people, along with the terms by which His covenant would be fulfilled.

The LORD said to her,
“Two nations are in your womb;
And two peoples will be separated from your body;
And one people shall be stronger than the other;
And the older shall serve the younger.”
When her days to be delivered were fulfilled, behold, there were twins in her womb. Now the first came forth red, all over like a hairy garment; and they named him Esau. Afterward his brother came forth with his hand holding on to Esau’s heel, so his name was called Jacob; and Isaac was sixty years old when she gave birth to them.
— Genesis 25:23-26

But nations are comprised of individuals

Carl Emerson · Jul 20, 2025

friend of said:
But nations are comprised of individuals

Paul confirms this when he says "not all Israel are Israel..."

The father of all who have faith is Abraham not Moses.

zoidar · Jul 20, 2025

Carl Emerson said:
Paul confirms this when he says "not all Israel are Israel..."

The father of all who have faith is Abraham not Moses.

Exactly, Gentiles are included through faith just as Jews are included through faith and can not rely on inheritage.

Bro.T · Jul 22, 2025

FredVB said:
God does not exclude anyone by God's will. God is caring, and being unlimited as God is God's caring is not limited. None are created to perish, all who would repent of being contrary to God with their lives should be brought to that repentance, to be restored to God as Christ made possible through him. None are kept from that and are provided opportunities, which we here should increase, and their own resistance is to blame if they will not. Some may go along with those of faith but without repentance they will fall away at some time when coming to a challenge.

What happen to the people who will not repent?

FredVB · Tuesday at 11:49 AM

Bro.T said:
What happen to the people who will not repent?

There is what I am sure about, and what is harder to make argument for that I am not as sure of. I am sure that repentance, that Christ called for when he preached, as John did before him and his followers did after him, is essential in the needed faith. Those ones with this faith are saved, they are sealed, and will still turn from sin that would still be found, they will grow and will be learning. Those without repentance in faith will have a dead faith, and are likely to fall away soon enough. What then happens to those who never come to God through Christ? They are left under fair judgment for all sin in their lives. I believe that souls are not created that they might be annihilated. This would mean they really do suffer continually in misery after this life, though what is used to describe it seems metaphorical to me.

Bro.T · Tuesday at 7:02 PM

FredVB said:
There is what I am sure about, and what is harder to make argument for that I am not as sure of. I am sure that repentance, that Christ called for when he preached, as John did before him and his followers did after him, is essential in the needed faith. Those ones with this faith are saved, they are sealed, and will still turn from sin that would still be found, they will grow and will be learning. Those without repentance in faith will have a dead faith, and are likely to fall away soon enough. What then happens to those who never come to God through Christ? They are left under fair judgment for all sin in their lives. I believe that souls are not created that they might be annihilated. This would mean they really do suffer continually in misery after this life, though what is used to describe it seems metaphorical to me.

The first thing Jesus says when he got started in his ministry, Jesus says in Luke 5:32 I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.

To repent means to turn from our sinful ways and start obeying God's law. The water baptism signifies the washing away of our past sins. After repenting and being baptized in the name of Jesus it would be foolish for us to turn around and willingly break God's commandments. If we make an honest mistake Jesus can help us, but if we sin willingly, look out! "...there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, but a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation..." (Hebrews 10:26-27). When Jesus died only the sacrificial law was done away with, alone with Leviticus priesthood.

We still must obey all of God's laws and statues of conduct, from the ten commandments to the least commandment. We cannot choose to obey one without obeying the others. For instance, if it's still good to pay tithes (as many preach), then it is still good to obey God's dietary law (not eating pork, catfish, etc...Leviticus 11:1-47). Similarly, you cannot purposely trip a blind person (Leviticus 19:14) and claim to love your neighbor as yourself. Neither can you break God's Sabbath days (Leviticus 19:30) and claim to love God with all your heart, soul and mind.

Many fight to uphold man's traditional holidays (Sunday the 1st day as the Sabbath, Christmas, Easter and Halloween), but few are obeying God's Holy Days (Saturday the 7th day Sabbath, the Passover, Pentecost, etc...Leviticus 23:1-44). All of God's laws are still good and must be obeyed if we want eternal life. We might not be able to observe everything perfectly, but can fight a good fight.

Carl Emerson · Tuesday at 8:16 PM

Bro.T said:
The first thing Jesus says when he got started in his ministry, Jesus says in Luke 5:32 I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.

To repent means to turn from our sinful ways and start obeying God's law. The water baptism signifies the washing away of our past sins. After repenting and being baptized in the name of Jesus it would be foolish for us to turn around and willingly break God's commandments. If we make an honest mistake Jesus can help us, but if we sin willingly, look out! "...there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, but a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation..." (Hebrews 10:26-27). When Jesus died only the sacrificial law was done away with, alone with Leviticus priesthood.

We still must obey all of God's laws and statues of conduct, from the ten commandments to the least commandment. We cannot choose to obey one without obeying the others. For instance, if it's still good to pay tithes (as many preach), then it is still good to obey God's dietary law (not eating pork, catfish, etc...Leviticus 11:1-47). Similarly, you cannot purposely trip a blind person (Leviticus 19:14) and claim to love your neighbor as yourself. Neither can you break God's Sabbath days (Leviticus 19:30) and claim to love God with all your heart, soul and mind.

Many fight to uphold man's traditional holidays (Sunday the 1st day as the Sabbath, Christmas, Easter and Halloween), but few are obeying God's Holy Days (Saturday the 7th day Sabbath, the Passover, Pentecost, etc...Leviticus 23:1-44). All of God's laws are still good and must be obeyed if we want eternal life. We might not be able to observe everything perfectly, but can fight a good fight.

Galatians 5:18
But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the Law.

Bro.T · Thursday at 6:11 PM

Carl Emerson said:
Galatians 5:18
But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the Law.

That's true, but what law is this Paul talking about here?

Carl Emerson · 2025-08-01T22:43:51-0500

Bro.T said:
That's true, but what law is this Paul talking about here?

The Law of sin and death.

Can Salvation be lost?

Well-Known Member

A private in Gods army

loves Jesus the Christ! ✝️

Junior Member

A private in Gods army

Well-Known Member

loves Jesus the Christ! ✝️

Bible Christian

Regular Member

Bible Christian

Well-Known Member

Bible Christian

Well-Known Member

Similar threads