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The Harm Caused by Excessive Criticism of the Roman Catholic Church and Other Denominations
- Thread starter The Liturgist
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boughtwithaprice
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So you say the Church is invisible and subject to human democracy? Is that correct?
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concretecamper
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- Dec 8, 2007
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No, not human democracy. Subject to Scripture. Scripture does not change, the ideas, whims and the free will of men are in constant flux. There were good, and even great popes, just as there are Bishops, clergy and councils that are good and Godly, guided by the Holy Spirit doing God's will. Likewise, there are duds in all offices that men hold. The only infallible leader of the Church is our Lord Jesus Christ and the only rule of doctrine and dogmatics is the God breathed word of God. It is not hard to recognize a dud pope when compared to and inspired and Godly Pope.
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boughtwithaprice
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And who makes the judgement? Us?
We often fail to realize that when we say Scripture is the sole rule, we are making our private interpretation the sole rule, which then places us above the Church and above Jesus.
Scripture is complicated and there are many hard sayings which can be twisted. We have only to look at the way Satan tried to use scripture against Jesus in the desert to know that it can be misused
Scripture itself states that the pillar and foundation of truth is the Church. If we deny that and say it is sola scriptura, then we do not realize we are actually denying scripture
There are dud teachers and dud Popes or bishops. Infallibility does not mean impeccability or perfection. The Pope holds the office of vicar of Christ, but he is not Christ Himself. That means we owe him holy obedience but not blind loyalty.
There is sufficient rebellion in our flesh that we need to work to improve before we worry about the Pope. Who are our enemies? How do we love them? Are we attached to sin? Do we know what sin is? Do we deny church teaching?
Those that say works play no part in salvation would enslave us to remain perpetual spiritual babies. Babies are cute. A forty year old baby is not. Make sense?
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The Bishop of Rome was not among the 318 Holy Fathers at Nicaea, although his two legates were and he acceded to the binding ecumenical authority of the Council which was derived from its churchwide acceptance including by the laity (for this reason the Orthodox at the behest of St. Mark of Ephesus reject the Ecumenical status of Florence and regard it as something like a latrocinium).
I would note that the idea that Nicaea was a Roman Catholic thing and not a Catholic / Apostolic / Orthodox council conducted according to the ecclesiastical principle of conciliarity or sobornost is one of the more dangerous falsehoods spread by those who excessively criticize your church leading to an arbitrary Catholic vs. Restorationist narrative that does real harm by squeezing out the Greek and Syrian churches from the historical record in favor of an assumed anachronistic proto-ultramontanism.
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concretecamper
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This doesn't address my post.
@prodromos said men are prone to error, if that is true, then the profession of faith developed at Nicea is prone to error. And I asked a follow up which remains unanswered.
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- Nov 28, 2003
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Post #241 was my answer. Your follow up is just you playing stupid games, which I have no interest in playing.
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concretecamper
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I give you credit, you saw the corner you would be in if you answered my question.
QED
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concretecamper
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You've been on these forums for over 12 years. Your question has been asked and answered many times in threads you've been involved with over that time. You look to me as though you just want to pick a fight, and as I've already said, I'm not interested. People like you are probably the reason the Catholic Answers forum was shut down.
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