The Harm Caused by Excessive Criticism of the Roman Catholic Church and Other Denominations

[prodromos]

So using that logic, the profession of faith at Nicea in 325 is prone to error?

No, because the Church, which is the body of Christ, and not simply anyone else, is guided by the Holy Spirit into all truth.

 

[boughtwithaprice]

The Church (small c) catholic.

So you say the Church is invisible and subject to human democracy? Is that correct?

 

[concretecamper]

No, because the Church, which is the body of Christ, and not simply anyone else, is guided by the Holy Spirit into all truth.

And you get this idea where?

 

[MarkRohfrietsch]

So you say the Church is invisible and subject to human democracy? Is that correct?

No, not human democracy. Subject to Scripture. Scripture does not change, the ideas, whims and the free will of men are in constant flux. There were good, and even great popes, just as there are Bishops, clergy and councils that are good and Godly, guided by the Holy Spirit doing God's will. Likewise, there are duds in all offices that men hold. The only infallible leader of the Church is our Lord Jesus Christ and the only rule of doctrine and dogmatics is the God breathed word of God. It is not hard to recognize a dud pope when compared to and inspired and Godly Pope.

 

[boughtwithaprice]

No, not human democracy. Subject to Scripture. Scripture does not change, the ideas, whims and the free will of men are in constant flux. There were good, and even great popes, just as there are Bishops, clergy and councils that are good and Godly, guided by the Holy Spirit doing God's will. Likewise, there are duds in all offices that men hold. The only infallible leader of the Church is our Lord Jesus Christ and the only rule of doctrine and dogmatics is the God breathed word of God. It is not hard to recognize a dud pope when compared to and inspired and Godly Pope.

And who makes the judgement? Us?
We often fail to realize that when we say Scripture is the sole rule, we are making our private interpretation the sole rule, which then places us above the Church and above Jesus.
Scripture is complicated and there are many hard sayings which can be twisted. We have only to look at the way Satan tried to use scripture against Jesus in the desert to know that it can be misused
Scripture itself states that the pillar and foundation of truth is the Church. If we deny that and say it is sola scriptura, then we do not realize we are actually denying scripture
There are dud teachers and dud Popes or bishops. Infallibility does not mean impeccability or perfection. The Pope holds the office of vicar of Christ, but he is not Christ Himself. That means we owe him holy obedience but not blind loyalty.
There is sufficient rebellion in our flesh that we need to work to improve before we worry about the Pope. Who are our enemies? How do we love them? Are we attached to sin? Do we know what sin is? Do we deny church teaching?
Those that say works play no part in salvation would enslave us to remain perpetual spiritual babies. Babies are cute. A forty year old baby is not. Make sense?

 

[prodromos]

And who makes the judgement? Us?

The Church, which is the pillar and ground of truth.

 

[boughtwithaprice]

The Church, which is the pillar and ground of truth.

Agreed

 

[The Liturgist]

So using that logic, the profession of faith at Nicea in 325 is prone to error?

The Bishop of Rome was not among the 318 Holy Fathers at Nicaea, although his two legates were and he acceded to the binding ecumenical authority of the Council which was derived from its churchwide acceptance including by the laity (for this reason the Orthodox at the behest of St. Mark of Ephesus reject the Ecumenical status of Florence and regard it as something like a latrocinium).

I would note that the idea that Nicaea was a Roman Catholic thing and not a Catholic / Apostolic / Orthodox council conducted according to the ecclesiastical principle of conciliarity or sobornost is one of the more dangerous falsehoods spread by those who excessively criticize your church leading to an arbitrary Catholic vs. Restorationist narrative that does real harm by squeezing out the Greek and Syrian churches from the historical record in favor of an assumed anachronistic proto-ultramontanism.

 

[concretecamper]

The Bishop of Rome was not among the 318 Holy Fathers at Nicaea, although his two legates were and he acceded to the binding ecumenical authority of the Council which was derived from its churchwide acceptance including by the laity (for this reason the Orthodox at the behest of St. Mark of Ephesus reject the Ecumenical status of Florence and regard it as something like a latrocinium).

I would note that the idea that Nicaea was a Roman Catholic thing and not a Catholic / Apostolic / Orthodox council conducted according to the ecclesiastical principle of conciliarity or sobornost is one of the more dangerous falsehoods spread by those who excessively criticize your church leading to an arbitrary Catholic vs. Restorationist narrative that does real harm by squeezing out the Greek and Syrian churches from the historical record in favor of an assumed anachronistic proto-ultramontanism.

This doesn't address my post.

@prodromos said men are prone to error, if that is true, then the profession of faith developed at Nicea is prone to error. And I asked a follow up which remains unanswered.

 

[prodromos]

This doesn't address my post.

@prodromos said men are prone to error, if that is true, then the profession of faith developed at Nicea is prone to error. And I asked a follow up which remains unanswered.

Post #241 was my answer. Your follow up is just you playing stupid games, which I have no interest in playing.

 

[concretecamper]

Post #241 was my answer. Your follow up is just you playing stupid games, which I have no interest in playing.

I give you credit, you saw the corner you would be in if you answered my question.

QED

 

[prodromos]

I give you credit, you saw the corner you would be in if you answered my question.

QED

By all means, play ignorant.

 

[concretecamper]

By all means, play ignorant.

Ha, dodge extraodinaire.

 

[prodromos]

Ha, dodge extraodinaire.

You've been on these forums for over 12 years. Your question has been asked and answered many times in threads you've been involved with over that time. You look to me as though you just want to pick a fight, and as I've already said, I'm not interested. People like you are probably the reason the Catholic Answers forum was shut down.

 

[boughtwithaprice]

No, because the Church, which is the body of Christ, and not simply anyone else, is guided by the Holy Spirit into all truth.

Do you agree that the same can’t be said of the Anglican assembly who gave us the Lambeth conference which said contraception is now moral? It is a grave responsibility for the Church to set the standards of morality and not give in to societal trends or what is termed the zeitgeist. According to Ezekiel 3

. 18 If, when I say to the wicked, Thou shalt surely die: thou declare it not to him, nor speak to him, that he may be converted from his wicked way, and live: the same wicked man shall die in his iniquity, but I will require his blood at thy hand. 19 But if thou give warning to the wicked, and he be not converted from his wickedness, and from his evil way: he indeed shall die in his iniquity, but thou hast delivered thy soul. 20 Moreover if the just man shall turn away from his justice, and shall commit iniquity: I will lay a stumblingblock before him, he shall die, because thou hast not given him warning: he shall die in his sin, and his justices which he hath done, shall not be remembered: but I will require his blood at thy hand.

21 But if thou warn the just man, that the just may not sin, and he doth not sin: living he shall live, because thou hast warned him, and thou hast delivered thy soul.


I don’t get a clear condemnation of contraception from Orthodox sources. Some say it is condemned, others say it may be tolerated.
Do you have any comment?

The Catholic Church condemns contraception as gravely evil. According to Ezekiel 3, the issue is not whether people that claim to be Catholic listen to the teaching, rather that the teaching remains intact. What say the Orthodox?

 

[prodromos]

The Catholic Church condemns contraception as gravely evil.

Doesn't the Catholic Church allow the "Rhythm Method" as a means for married couples to engage in intercourse while minimising the chance of conceiving? Is that not the meaning of contra-ception?

 

[concretecamper]

You've been on these forums for over 12 years. Your question has been asked and answered many times in threads you've been involved with over that time. You look to me as though you just want to pick a fight, and as I've already said, I'm not interested. People like you are probably the reason the Catholic Answers forum was shut down.

You know you were 1 move away from checkmate, so you decided to start name calling. I asked a simple question. Just because you were afraid to answer it, don't turn it on me as if I were wanting to pick a fight.

You can still be an adult and answer my question in post #243

 

[chevyontheriver]

Doesn't the Catholic Church allow the "Rhythm Method" as a means for married couples to engage in intercourse while minimising the chance of conceiving? Is that not the meaning of contra-ception?

You nicely dodged the question of the Orthodox teaching on contraception.