Trump Bars Entry from 12 Countries

durangodawood said:

Culture, geography..... you dont have to pick just one, you know.

My point where these places matters for a proper understanding of events.

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I still disagree. Culture and certain systemic/economic preferences are far above and beyond geography in the modern world.

There are countless examples of countries that despite having similar geography, are at odds, as well as countries that are separated by thousands of miles, that have lots of commonalities that translate into alliances.

If Geography was instrumental in any meaningful way, North and South Korea would be best buddies.


Look at "The Troubles" in Northern Ireland. People within the same country deeply divided over cultural differences.


New Zealand is far away...I could fly there tomorrow, and would fit in better there than I would if I tried to go to Cuba.

ThatRobGuy said:

Nothing really, other than that's the particular location of the source that's emanating the bad ideas...

My point was the critique of "the Americans who support the travel ban probably couldn't find those countries on a map" was irrelevant as knowing that a place exists, and knowing that it's a source of bad (and sometimes dangerous) ideas doesn't require one to win a round of geography trivia.

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Sadly, to some it does.

ThatRobGuy said:

There are countless examples of countries that despite having similar geography, are at odds, as well as countries that are separated by thousands of miles, that have lots of commonalities that translate into alliances.

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Wait, do you think Im implying that the strength of alliance is directly proportional to geographic proximity? Or proportional to geographic similarity? I mean it sounds like you think I'm saying that. But I would defy you to show me where Ive even implied it.

Geography is simply an important part of why countries behave like they do, who they contend with, etc.

ThatRobGuy said:

If Geography was instrumental in any meaningful way, North and South Korea would be best buddies.

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By the same token - no, even much moreso - if culture meant what youre implying, North and South Korea would be best buddies forever! As it is, geography is essential in making sense of their relationship. Culture is critical too, obviously. Its not either/or. What we havent mentioned re understanding the Koreas is the history. And you cant grasp that properly without the basics of their geography.

ThatRobGuy said:

Look at "The Troubles" in Northern Ireland. People within the same country deeply divided over cultural differences.

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Here we go again erecting the strawman notion that proximity means compatibility. I would never suggest such a thing. But anyone who does want to understand the troubles would do well to be able to place R of Ireland, N Ireland, and Britain on a map in relation to each other - among all the other things one would need to know.

durangodawood said:

Well, I hope its not important. Can you show me where it is?

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Again, what's the relevance to the topic of banning travel from terrorist producing countries? All we need to know is where terroristic people are coming from. And I most sincerely believe Trump isn't banning travel from all the countries he should. And it could be argued that some of the countries he is banning government travel from has not shown they are producing terrorist people.

durangodawood said:

No one needs to know coordinates. Just place it on a map in relation to other countries we're involved in.

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Why is this important for the individual American?

rjs330 said:

Why is this important for the individual American?

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The individual American can get by fine in perfect ignorance of many important things.

But if you want to make informed judgements about the decisions our leaders are making, then you need some basic background knowledge of events and their context.

rjs330 said:

Again, what's the relevance to the topic of banning travel from terrorist producing countries? All we need to know is where terroristic people are coming from. And I most sincerely believe Trump isn't banning travel from all the countries he should. And it could be argued that some of the countries he is banning government travel from has not shown they are producing terrorist people.

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Have you read the order? Aside from known threats like Afghanistan, many of those countries were banned because of their visa overstay rates, not because they are known sources of terrorism.

durangodawood said:

Geography is simply an important part of why countries behave like they do, who they contend with, etc.

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I would say culture is more critical than geography. If you switched the Arabic countries with the European countries you would still have the same issues. Its because culture is the most critical part of a group of people.

Some parts of culture could of course come from geographical areas like how you farm and what you eat.

rjs330 said:

I would say culture is more critical than geography.

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I never made a point about which is more important.

My point was just that knowing where these countries are is important for understanding geopolitics.

rjs330 said:

If you switched the Arabic countries with the European countries you would still have the same issues. Its because culture is the most critical part of a group of people.

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Imagine the Arabic countries emerging mainly without vast reserves of oil, and with abundant agriculture, and think about how "same" theyd end up. And the inverse for the other group.

wing2000 said:

...and restricts entry from other countries.

The ban, which goes into effect on Monday, bars travel to the United States by citizens of Afghanistan, Myanmar, Chad, the Republic of Congo, Equatorial Guinea, Eritrea, Haiti, Iran, Libya, Somalia, Sudan and Yemen.

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While this travel ban will restrict some of the bad people that America wants to keep out, it also will restrict some good people. For instance, there are some Americans that marry a spouse from one of these countries. I guess those families either have to live apart or leave America until Trump is out of office or the courts reject the ban. This travel ban shuts the door on many meaningful and family supporting visits.

I know too that there are people with legitimate business needs from some of these nations as well.

To me the bans simply mean that the USA is not competent enough to screen foreign visa applicants. So since many overstays or bad people come to the USA, we should just shut them all out.

I will say too that the bible says to preach the gospel to the world. So I am sure too that at least a few Christian missionaries and evangelical students from these nations are also banned from coming to America.

Lastly, I oppose this because America rejecting all people from these nations is isolationist and is leading to the loss of influence in America. One of the greatest hopes in turning these nations around is to help train and influence their future leaders. If this is upheld, we may thwart good prospects or encourage them to train in China and other nations that align against US interests. Blocking out and segregating the world is not the answer for a strong America.

Are we to believe in others?
"The greatest obstacle to reprogramming missions in Haiti, however, may not be external. It may be reprogramming the evangelical mind: Christians, both American and Haitian, will have to believe in Haitians again.

“I don’t think a lot of people realize that there’s sort of this tendency to write off Haiti as naturally politically unstable and just assume this is their fate,” Chris Davis, the military historian, said. But “there are solutions we can work toward to solve that situation.” What Evangelicals Owe Haiti - Christianity Today

So where is your faith. Is the glass empty to where there are no redeeming qualities of such foreigners that you support this ban? That you acknowledge that there are no efforts that can be successful in reducing visa overstays and foreign hostiles from coming in while allowing foreigner visits and even new permanant residents from marriages and family?

Duet 10:18
He defends the cause of the fatherless and the widow, and loves the foreigner residing among you, giving them food and clothing.[/url]

Venezuelan team denied entry into U.S. for Little League's senior tournament​

The Cacique Mara team from Maracaibo, Venezuela, was denied visas into the United States and will be forced to miss the Senior League World Series for players between 13 and 16 years old,

The Senior League World Series is held each year in Easley, with six teams from the United States and six international teams. A different team from Maracaibo won the tournament last year.

Hm... they are sending us their best.