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criminal justice reform

dogs4thewin

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I'm not sure way any of this is an argument for bailing a guy arrested for violent assault who has prior convictions for the same kind of crime. Because he has the money it's OK?
No, but unless it was VERY violent like murder ( and in some states even if it was) he has the right to go before the judge and request bail ( in part because our system is based on the STATE proving they committed the offense. If the judge feels that the person is not a threat and he has a good lawyer then there is a pretty good chance he will get bail. May not be fair but when you have a system where the state has to prove the person broke the law THIS time bail is part of that. I guess one option ( and some counties do this is to have a jail STRICTLY for those awaiting trial and one for those convicted, but that of course is twice the money. I have also heard of some places basicly treating those who are not convicted differently than those who are ( unless and until they prove that they cannot be trusted with those privileges.
 
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Hans Blaster

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I'm not sure way any of this is an argument for bailing a guy arrested for violent assault who has prior convictions for the same kind of crime. Because he has the money it's OK?
Which is why pre-trial release conditions should be based on ensuring appearance at trial and potential threat to the community and not how easily they can find cash.
 
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dogs4thewin

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Which is why pre-trial release conditions should be based on ensuring appearance at trial and potential threat to the community and not how easily they can find cash.
sometimes it is based on both.
 
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dogs4thewin

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Why should availability of cash be an issue at all?
maybe it should not be, but like I said I believe that is part of it, so that people will have something on the line if they up and leave. Make your appearances get your money back, pay less ( if you used a bail bondsman, or keep your property in the case of a property do not and you/ your family lose the money/property if you put up your own things.
 
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Hans Blaster

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maybe it should not be, but like I said I believe that is part of it, so that people will have something on the line if they up and leave.
This is a "reform" thread, so we absolutely should be taking about what "should not be".
Make your appearances get your money back, pay less ( if you used a bail bondsman, or keep your property in the case of a property do not and you/ yor family lose the money/property if you put up your own things.
The issue is about what it takes to ensure compliance with further court appearances. Appropriate (dis)incentives should be used and that may include financial ones, but the inability to provide cash or assurity should never be the reason someone is in jail before being convicted. (Bail bondsmen should not exist.)
 
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dogs4thewin

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This is a "reform" thread, so we absolutely should be taking about what "should not be".

The issue is about what it takes to ensure compliance with further court appearances. Appropriate (dis)incentives should be used and that may include financial ones, but the inability to provide cash or assurity should never be the reason someone is in jail before being convicted. (Bail bondsmen should not exist.)
Some states now are starting to do that where you attend a hearing to ensure money is not all that is keeping you in jail/ I saw were Mass. does not allow bondsmen the issue is that sense parts of the state still have bail that means that a person have to come up with 100% of the bail amount ( as opposed to the between 5% and 15% bondsmen charge.
 
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Larniavc

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maybe it should not be, but like I said I believe that is part of it, so that people will have something on the line if they up and leave. Make your appearances get your money back, pay less ( if you used a bail bondsman, or keep your property in the case of a property do not and you/ yor family lose the money/property if you put up your own things.
Is the only thing you can think of for motivation money? Why do you keep shooting down change suggestions?
 
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Larniavc

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bondsmen the issue is that sense parts of the state still have bail that means that a person have to come up with 100% of the bail amount ( as opposed to the between 5% and 15% bondsmen charge.
Is your intent to just repeat yourself but to different posters?
 
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dogs4thewin

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Is the only thing you can think of for motivation money? Why do you keep shooting down change suggestions?
I am merely saying that is the point of the money. This does not mean that I support cash bails ( at least not in the way they are used now. However, money/property is something that is easy to lose. This is why the people who are the most trusted get lesser bail amounts. Maybe, and I have seen this before to maybe if instead of paying money to get out you paid money if you fled. In other words, we will let you out on conditions not including money, but if you do not show up you will then have to pay.
 
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dogs4thewin

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Is your intent to just repeat yourself but to different posters?
Actually, the point was that if you have cash bail, but do not have bondmens it actually cost MORE. Now, if you are not going to have cash bail then of course there is no need for bondsmen, but if you are going to have cash bail without bondsmen then the amounts MUST be more reasonable.
 
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dogs4thewin

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For the record, many times bail ( pre trial release DOES come with other conditions and sometimes THOSE conditions can cost money as well
 
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Hans Blaster

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Some states now are starting to do that where you attend a hearing to ensure money is not all that is keeping you in jail/
The only thing that should keep you in jail before your conviction is 1) you are a danger to others, or 2) you are a flight risk.
I saw were Mass. does not allow bondsmen the issue is that sense parts of the state still have bail that means that a person have to come up with 100% of the bail amount ( as opposed to the between 5% and 15% bondsmen charge.
Bail bonds men are not a good thing. There is a reason they sit side by side in the strip mall next to payday lenders and pawnshops -- they are exploiting the desperate.
 
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dogs4thewin

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The only thing that should keep you in jail before your conviction is 1) you are a danger to others, or 2) you are a flight risk.

Bail bonds men are not a good thing. There is a reason they sit side by side in the strip mall next to payday lenders and pawnshops -- they are exploiting the desperate.
ding ding ding that is the point of bail if someone is a flight risk and knows that if they flee they will lose their money/property they may be less likely to flee. One option therefore could be to set conditions along with a bond that the person ONLY has to pay if they either flee or do not follow other court orders. This way they would have something on the line (other than their freedom if they disobayed court orders/fleed while at the same time basically being given the benefit of the doubt that they would obay/stay to face the music to begin with
 
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Hans Blaster

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ding ding ding that is the point of bail if someone is a flight risk and knows that if they flee they will lose their money/property they may be less likely to flee.
The it is being misapplied.
One option therefore could be to set conditions along with a bond that the person ONLY has to pay if they either flee or do not follow other court orders.
Known as a signature bond. Basically the only type of bond there should be.
This way they would have something on the line (other than their freedom if they disobayed court orders/fleed while at the same time basically being given the benefit of the doubt that they would obay/stay to face the music to begin with
I don't know why the actual penalty for failure to appear is not sufficient for most people.
 
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dogs4thewin

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The it is being misapplied.

Known as a signature bond. Basically the only type of bond there should be.

I don't know why the actual penalty for failure to appear is not sufficient for most people.
There seems to be an awful lot of people who fail to appear though ( far from everyone).
 
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