The Saints will meet the Lord in the air, not Rapture, at Jesus second coming, this is the first Resurrection

Clare73 said:

Prophecy is given in riddles and not clearly (Nu 12:6-8), making it subject to more than one interpretation.

My interpretation is not the same as yours and also enjoys being in agreement with authoritative NT apostolic teaching (1 Th 4:16-17) of Jesus Christ (Lk 10:16).

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And I am with Clare 73. as to 1 Thess 4:13-17. ,

#0 There are different resurrections

# 1 is in verse 14 which I call , those who have fallen asleep and gone to PARADISE. , 2 Cor 12:1-5

# 2 In verse 15 the. Living Ones , the surviving ones may precede the ones. having been fallen asleep. , verse 15

# 3. In verse 16 , and the dead in Christ. in Christ will raise up FIRST

# 4 In verse. 17 , then we the surviving ones. will be v caught away at the same with them in CLOUDS. for a

meeting the Lord. into the air and so we will at all times be with the Lord .


# 5 And. in the. Greek text there is NO Greek words called Rapture !!

# 6 And ONLY accept what many call the DEPARTURE. as in 2 Thess 2:1 and 2 .

What say you ?

dan p

Dan Perez said:

And I am with Clare 73. as to 1 Thess 4:13-17. ,
#0 There are different resurrections
# 1 is in verse 14 which I call , those who have fallen asleep and gone to PARADISE. , 2 Cor 12:1-5
# 2 In verse 15 the. Living Ones , the surviving ones may precede the ones. having been fallen asleep. , verse 15

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# 3. In verse 16 , and the dead in Christ. in Christ will raise up FIRST
# 4 In verse. 17 , then we the surviving ones. will be v caught away at the same with them in CLOUDS. for a
meeting the Lord. into the air and so we will at all times be with the Lord .
# 5 And. in the. Greek text there is NO Greek words called Rapture !!

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The Greek word is harpazo (catching up). 1 Th 4:16-17

Dan Perez said:

# 6 And ONLY accept what many call the DEPARTURE. as in 2 Thess 2:1 and 2 .
What say you ?

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Bro.T said:

The Lord never gave authority to the apostolic to teach his word, instead Paul says in Roman 9: 3 For I could wish that myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my kinsmen according to the flesh: 4 who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises; 5 whose are the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came, who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen. Also
Pauls says in Romans 3:1 What advantage then hath the Jew? or what profit is there of circumcision? 2 Much every way: chiefly, because that unto them were committed the oracles of God. 3 For what if some did not believe? shall their unbelief make the faith of God without effect?

So this is what the Bible say and (1 Th 4:16-17) is the first resurrection.

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And do you see any resurrections in. 1 These 4:13-17 ?

And I seen at least 3 , so do you see any ?

dan p

BobRyan said:
It was without question that Jesus said He would go to heaven - and there - prepare A PLACE for His people.

Matt 5 "great is your reward IN HEAVEN"

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Postvieww said:

Please correct me if I am wrong but as understand your belief it will have to be a short 7 years earth time stay in heaven. You say you don’t believe that but how long will it be . We rule and reign on this earth with Christ. Please explain just exactly what you believe here .

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I believe (along with about 23 million of my friends ) that we are raptured at the appearing of Christ in Rev 19 - then spend 1000 years in heaven with Christ as per Rev 20, then return to Earth where the second resurrection and great white throne judgment happen.

2 Thess 1, Rev 19 (the rest were killed) and Jer 4:23-26 point to a desolate Earth during the 1000 year literal millennium

So then the saints rule/reign with Christ in heaven where as 1 Cor 6 says - they judge angels, and in fact rule over the lost with the rod of Iron (Rev 2) of judgment reviewing the records of the lost.

BobRyan said:
does not say " I will come again and join you here"

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JulieB67 said:

It does not say "I will come again and take you to heaven".

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Matt 6 "Oh Father who IS IN HEAVEN"
Heb 11 Abraham was looking for a "HEAVENLY city"
John 14:1-3 I GO To prepare A PLACE For you .. I will come again and RECEIVE you (not JOIN you here on Earth)

JulieB67 said:

It states "I will come again and receive you to myself that where I am you may be also".

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Indeed - instead of US receive Christ HERE - HE receives US to to take us "TO the PLACE" He is preparing for us.

"GREAT is your reward IN HEAVEN" Matt 5:12

JulieB67 said:

Mansions/mone means -"a staying" i.e. residence.

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Indeed - He GOES THERE to prepare in that place - a place for us -- then having prepared that place for us - he comes again

JulieB67 said:

But when Christ returns he will receive us unto himself.

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Amen - He receive US to Himself -- we do not receive HIM as though HE were coming to where we live - to stay here with us.

JulieB67 said:

When we read further into this chapter we come to this verses-

John 14:18 "I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you."

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John 14:18 is not about the second coming - it is about the presence of the resurrected Christ with us here - while we are alive .. before the end of all things -

JulieB67 said:

John 14:23 "Jesus answered and said unto him, "If a man love Me, he will keep My words: and My Father will love him, and We will come unto him, and make Our abode with him."

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That John 14:23 state,emt is about our present state as Christians, our present walk with Christ as we see in Rom 8:13-16.

John 17:
16 They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world. 17 Sanctify them in the truth; Your word is truth. 18 As You sent Me into the world, I also have sent them into the world. 19 For their sakes I sanctify Myself, that they themselves also may be sanctified in truth.

20 “I do not ask on behalf of these alone, but for those also who believe in Me through their word; 21 that they may all be one; even as You, Father, are in Me and I in You, that they also may be in Us, so that the world may believe that You sent Me.

Their Future Glory​

22 The glory which You have given Me I have given to them, that they may be one, just as We are one; 23 I in them and You in Me, that they may be perfected in unity, so that the world may know that You sent Me, and loved them, even as You have loved Me. 24 Father, I desire that they also, whom You have given Me, be with Me where I am, so that they may see My glory which You have given Me, for You loved Me before the foundation of the world.

JulieB67 said:

We are meeting the Lord in the "air" (breathable atmosphere) as he returns. It's a coming, not a going.

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That scenario would be "raptured to Earth" -- and the Bible does not teach that.

"Heaven is our home"
Heb 11:13 All these died in faith, without receiving the promises, but having seen them and having welcomed them from a distance, and having confessed that they were strangers and exiles on the earth. 14 For those who say such things make it clear that they are seeking a country of their own. 15 And indeed if they had been thinking of that country from which they went out, they would have had opportunity to return. 16 But as it is, they desire a better country, that is, a heavenly one. Therefore God is not ashamed to be called their God; for He has prepared a city for them.

JulieB67 said:

And if we read further into chapter 5, Paul himself calls this event, the event at the end of chapter 4 -the day of the Lord. And then goes further into 2nd Thes and states that "day" shall not happen.....until certain events unfold. So we can see Acts 3:21 is most definitely true.

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Agreed the events of 2 Thess 2 must happen before Christ appears.

JulieB67 said:

Hebrews 9:28 "So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for Him shall He appear the second time without sin, unto salvation."

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Agreed - Christ does not appear in heaven as a Savior from Sin - but as a rewarder of the saints and to exterminate the wicked as stated in 2 Thess 1:5-8 and Jer 4:23-26

JulieB67 said:

We will have a new heaven and earth. And as it states the meek shall inherit the earth. When do you think that happens?

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That happens in Rev 21 - after the 1000 years, after the great white throne judgment of Rev 20 and lake of fire event.

Bro.T said:

I see one resurrection, right after the seventh trumpet sound.

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True - just one resurrection mentioned in 1 Thess 4:13-18.

There are two resurrection in Rev 20. The first one is before the 1000 years and is the same one seen in 1 Thess 4:13-18. And the second one is after the 1000 years.

The blessed and holy one - are only those in the first resurrection according to Rev 20

Bro.T said:

15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

This verse just told us that some will be alive to be in this first resurrection, the coming of Jesus, and there are those who will be asleep. Notice they asleep and not in heaven chilling and watching over people, smiling at all this hell going on.

16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

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1 Thess 4:13-18

13 But we do not want you to be uninformed, brethren, about those who are asleep, so that you will not grieve as do the rest who have no hope. 14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who have fallen asleep in Jesus. 15 For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we shall always be with the Lord. 18 Therefore comfort one another with these words.

It does not say "some will be alive to be in the first resurrection" rather that the resurrection is only for the "dead in Christ" only for "those who are asleep in Jesus" - the "who who are alive an remain" will be caught up in the air with those who are resurrected in the first resurrection - "to meet the Lord in the air" and to be taken to that "heavenly country" of Heb 11.

BobRyan said:

GREAT is your reward IN HEAVEN" Matt 5:12

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I believe Heaven is wherever our Father is at any time.

BobRyan said:

we do not receive HIM as though HE were coming to where we live - to stay here with us.

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I believe so, for the 1000 years.

This verse (along with many others) makes no sense if Christ were returning and then turning right back to Heaven

I Thessalonians 4:14 "For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him."

He's bringing them.

BobRyan said:

Matt 6 "Oh Father who IS IN HEAVEN"
Heb 11 Abraham was looking for a "HEAVENLY city"
John 14:1-3 I GO To prepare A PLACE For you .. I will come again and RECEIVE you (not JOIN you here on Earth)

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Again, it does not say I will come again and take you to Heaven.

BobRyan said:

is not about the second coming - it is about the presence of the resurrected Christ with us here - while we are alive .. before the end of all things -

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I stated the same. That's what "mansions/abode implies. Especially if we take all of the verses in context.

BobRyan said:

That John 14:23 state,emt is about our present state as Christians, our present walk with Christ as we see in Rom 8:13-16.

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Again, I stated the same with this

JulieB67 said:

Mansions/mone means -"a staying" i.e. residence. And it can be the place or the act. A place to abode. We can even find that today according to the rest of the verses in that chapter when he talks about the Comforter. But when Christ returns he will receive us unto himself.

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JulieB67 said:

The word "abode" in this verse is the very same Greek word that's translated "mansions" in the earlier verse-mone. And we know today we that's who we should be abiding in -Christ. That's the "staying" that's the rest we find in Christ. All of these verses need to be read in order to get the full context of what Christ is stating. Even the word "house" one of the words in the Greek meaning is "abode" which can be figuratively or literally.

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BobRyan said:

and the Bible does not teach that.

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I believe it teaches Christ returns to the earth. It doesn't state anywhere in the bible that Christ returns and takes anyone to Heaven when he returns.

BobRyan said:

Heaven is our home"

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I believe in "paradise" at this point. But I believe we will reside on the new earth for the eternity.

BobRyan said:

That happens in Rev 21 - after the 1000 years, after the great white throne judgment of Rev 20 and lake of fire event.

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I believe so as well.

So you believe that the 1000 years is in Heaven?

We are told that those who overcome will be given power over the nations, not the angels

Revelation 2:26 "And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:"

Revelation 2:27 "And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father."

This lines up with these verses

Revelation 20:6 "Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years."

And that would also imply that you believe Christ returns two more times, once before the 1000 years and again afterwards and I don't see the scriptures stating that.

BobRyan said:

I believe (along with about 23 million of my friends ) that we are raptured at the appearing of Christ in Rev 19 - then spend 1000 years in heaven with Christ as per Rev 20, then return to Earth where the second resurrection and great white throne judgment happen.

2 Thess 1, Rev 19 (the rest were killed) and Jer 4:23-26 point to a desolate Earth during the 1000 year literal millennium

So then the saints rule/reign with Christ in heaven where as 1 Cor 6 says - they judge angels, and in fact rule over the lost with the rod of Iron (Rev 2) of judgment reviewing the records of the lost.

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I see no evidence anyone is in heaven for one thousand years in Revelation 20. Please point out the scripture you believe says that.