The Saints will meet the Lord in the air, not Rapture, at Jesus second coming, this is the first Resurrection

[Bro.T]

Revelation is prophecy (Rev 1:3), which is spoken in riddles (dark sayings) and not clearly (Nu 12:6-8).

The riddle of the "first resurrection" in the prophecy of Rev 20:4 is the new birth from eternal death to eternal life.

It is not a physical resurrection of human bodies, but a resurrection of human spirits from eternal death to eternal life through faith in Jesus Christ.

Let's go again to Revelation 20: 4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. 5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

So these are Saints that was beheaded for the witness Jesus, and did not received his mark upon their forehead, this was during the great tribulation. Let's take a look at some of this Matthew 24: 8 All these are the beginning of sorrows. 9 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake. 10 And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.
11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many. 12 And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold. 13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved. 21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

This time is coming up brothers and Sisters, the beginning of real sorrows. So if you die righteously in Christ keeping the faith his testimony and his commandments, you will come up in the first resurrection or if you on this earth still living at the second coming of Christ you will still be change and come up in the first resurrection. Paul says in 1 Corinthians 15: 20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept. 21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead. 22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. 23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.

This is talking about the first resurrection. Lets go into 1 Thessalonians 4: 13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope. 14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.

If you sleep in Jesus it means you have done his will. Lets keep reading and see how Jesus bring the saints with him.

15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

This verse just told us that some will be alive to be in this first resurrection, the coming of Jesus, and there are those who will be asleep.

Notice they asleep and not in heaven chilling and watching over people, smiling at all this hell going on.

16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

Notice: Only the dead in Christ will rise first, but the Lord has descended...meaning coming down

17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

Notice those that were asleep or dead rise first, then those which are alive and remain rise next, to meet the Lord in the air, and altogether we come up in the first resurrection

 

[Clare73]

Let's go again to Revelation 20: 4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. 5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

So these are Saints that was beheaded for the witness Jesus, and did not received his mark upon their forehead, this was during the great tribulation. Let's take a look at some of this Matthew 24: 8 All these are the beginning of sorrows. 9 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake. 10 And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.
11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many. 12 And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold. 13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved. 21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

This time is coming up brothers and Sisters, the beginning of real sorrows. So if you die righteously in Christ keeping the faith his testimony and his commandments, you will come up in the first resurrection or if you on this earth still living at the second coming of Christ you will still be change and come up in the first resurrection. Paul says in 1 Corinthians 15: 20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept. 21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead. 22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. 23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.

This is talking about the first resurrection. Lets go into 1 Thessalonians 4: 13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope. 14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
If you sleep in Jesus it means you have done his will. Lets keep reading and see how Jesus bring the saints with him.
15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
This verse just told us that some will be alive to be in this first resurrection, the coming of Jesus, and there are those who will be asleep.
Notice they asleep and not in heaven chilling and watching over people, smiling at all this hell going on.
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
Notice: Only the dead in Christ will rise first, but the Lord has descended...meaning coming down
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
Notice those that were asleep or dead rise first, then those which are alive and remain rise next, to meet the Lord in the air, and altogether we come up in the first resurrection

Prophecy is given in riddles and not clearly (Nu 12:6-8), making it subject to more than one interpretation.

My interpretation is not the same as yours and also enjoys being in agreement with authoritative NT apostolic teaching (1 Th 4:16-17) of Jesus Christ (Lk 10:16).

 

[Bro.T]

Prophecy is given in riddles and not clearly (Nu 126-8), making it subject to more than one interpretation.

My interpretation is not the same as yours and also enjoys being in agreement with authoritative NT apostolic teaching (1 Th 4:16-17) of Jesus Christ (Lk 10:16).

Ok, and with that being said, peace in Jesus name

 

[Bro.T]

Lets go to Isaiah 27:12 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the LORD shall beat off from the channel of the river unto the stream of Egypt, and ye shall be gathered one by one, O ye children of Israel. (future) 27:13 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the great trumpet shall be blown, and they shall come which were ready to perish in the land of Assyria, and the outcasts in the land of Egypt, and shall worship the LORD in the holy mount at Jerusalem (future)

Joel 2:1 Blow ye the trumpet in Zion, and sound an alarm in my holy mountain: let all the inhabitants of the land tremble: for the day of the LORD cometh, for it is nigh at hand;

Lets take a look at, what Jobs said about being dead and being raise, let go to the book of Job 14:12 So man lieth down, and riseth not: till the heavens be no more, they shall not awake, nor be raised out of their sleep. 14:13 Oh that thou wouldest hide me in the grave, that thou wouldest keep me secret, until thy wrath be past, that thou wouldest appoint me a set time, and remember me! 14:14 If a man die, shall he live again? all the days of my appointed time will I wait, till my change come. 14:15 Thou shalt call, and I will answer thee: thou wilt have a desire to the work of thine hands.

Now lets go and see where Lord coming down at...Zechariah 14:4 And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south. Lets not forget those saints now, verse 5, 14:5 And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains;for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the LORD my God shall come, and all the saints with thee.

 

[reddogs]

Some people say, "Jesus is going to rapture us up to Heaven where he is" and when we ask them where they get that from that quote 1Thessalonians 4:13-17, to make a point or justify the rapture.13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope. 4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

Now lets take a closer look at the scripture and see what’s it talking about. Paul is telling people Not to grieve over people death in Christ; cause they will be raise again, as surely as the virtuous people that are living will be changed. "For the Lord will descend, (which mean come down), and we all will be caught up (ascend) together in the clouds to MEET the Lord in the AIR: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. So all the saints will meet the Lord in the air with the Angels and come down, back to earth. The third heaven is above space, and above space, theres a body of water. So the Lord is coming from all the way up there, now the saints are coming from the earth to meet the Lord in the clouds, and then we are going back to earth.

Lets go into Zechariah 14:1 Behold, the day of the Lord cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee. 2 For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city. 3 Then shall the Lord go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle. 4 And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south. 5 And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the Lord my God shall come, and all the saints with thee.

Lets read this last part again in 1 Thessalonians 3:13 To the end he may stablish your hearts unblameable in holiness before God, even our Father, at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ with all his saints.

At the coming of the Lord Jesus Christ with ALL HIS SAINTS. How clear is this brothers and sisters. You have to get understanding. Just because a person see the word heaven, it doesn't mean that every word that you see in the Bible that says heaven, is talking about the same thing. There are three heavens God created. First heaven is Earth, Second heaven is the sun, moon, stars, clouds. The Third heaven is above all, is where our Lord Father and Jesus Christ are. Lets take a look an example in Deuteronomy 4:19 And lest thou lift up thine eyes unto heaven, and when thou seest the sun, and the moon, and the stars, even all the host of heaven, shouldest be driven to worship them, and serve them, which the LORD thy God hath divided unto all nations under the whole heaven.

What else do you see when you look up and see the sun the moon and stars, you see the clouds, and didn't say in 1 Thessalonians 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. Do we understand what meet means.

Lets take a look at the meaning of the word meet. meet1 mēt/ verb 1. come into the presence or company of (someone) by chance or arrangement."a week later I met him in the street" synonyms: encounter, meet up with, come face to face with,run into, run across, come across/upon, chance on, happen on, stumble across/on;informalbump into "I met an old friend on the train"

Amen, we can look at how Christ went up and compare to see how will be His Second Coming...

Acts 1:9-11
9 And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight.
10 And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel;
11 Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven

So we see in the clouds together with His angels. Jesus was taken up into heaven by a cloud, and He will return in the clouds. The clouds refer to the angels of God that surround Him. Jesus Himself promised that He would return with the clouds which are the angels.

Matthew 24:30
And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven; and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

Matthew 25:31
When the Son of man shall come in His glory and all the holy angels with Him, then shall He sit upon the throne of His glory.

Christ's coming surpasses anything we can imagine, as He will return in the glory of His angels, and that of the Godhead:

Luke 9:26
For whosoever shall be ashamed of me and of my words, of him shall the Son of man be ashamed, when he shall come in his own glory, and in his Father's, and of the holy angels.

The Second Coming will also be universally visible as we see in Revelation 1:7 "Behold He cometh with clouds, and every eye shall see Him.."
Revelation 1:7
Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.

Christ warned against false christs that would not be universally visible, and how His coming would be:

Matthew 24:26-27
26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.
27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

The Second Coming will not be hidden at all but very audible, as He gathers the saints:

Matthew 24:31
And he shall send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet and they shall gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of Heaven to the other.

Christ will not come down to the earth, but await the saints in the sky with the cloud of angels:

1 Thessalonians 4:16-17
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

At the second coming, Christ calls forth the dead and sends forth His angels to gather the elect, and together they meet Him in the air. Christ Himself does not come down to the earth His feet do not touch the earth. His command to His angels is:

Psalm 50:5
Gather my saints together unto me, those that have made a covenant with me by sacrifice.

The saints who are alive and those who have been resurrected from the grave will be gathered together by angels and taken up into the air to meet the Lord in the sky. This will not be in any sense a secret rapture, but a worldwide event.

 

[Bro.T]

Now, before the Lord go against all those nation, there are people that did not receive the mark of the beast or whorship the beast, lets take a look at what the Lord did with those people. (remind you, these people are on the earth)

Let,s go in Revelation 7:1 And after these things I saw four angels standing on the four corners of the earth, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree. 7:2 And I saw another angel ascending from the east, having the seal of the living God: and he cried with a loud voice to the four angels, to whom it was given to hurt the earth and the sea, 7:3 Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads. When he say hold back the four wind, he talking the nation, or people.

7:9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothedwith white robes, and palms in their hands; 7:10 And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb.

Notice, these people are still on the earth, lets look at another verse.

7:14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. 7:15 Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them.

I want to add this part in, and I like remind people that this is future.

Zechariah 14:16 And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles.

14:17 And it shall be, that whoso will not come up of all the families of the earth unto Jerusalem to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, even upon them shall be no rain.

 

[Clare73]

Amen, we can look at how Christ went up and compare to see how will be His Second Coming...
Acts 1:9-11
9 And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight.
10 And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel;

11 Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven
So we see in the clouds together with His angels. Jesus was taken up into heaven by a cloud, and He will return in the clouds. The clouds refer to the angels of God that surround Him. Jesus Himself promised that He would return with the clouds which are the angels.

No, the clouds are clouds.

A could was involved in Jesus ascension (Ac 1:9) and a cloud will be involved in his second coming (Ac 1:11).

 

[Postvieww]

John 14:1-3 rapture taken to "My Father's house" - not to a lot of water above Earth's atmosphere

“Do not let your heart be troubled; believe in God, believe also in Me. 2 In My Father’s house are many dwelling places; if it were not so, I would have told you; for I go to prepare a place for you. 3 If I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and receive you to Myself, that where I am, there you may be also. 4 And you know the way where I am going.”

Jesus' Father in Heaven "Our Father who is in heaven" Matt 6
Phil 3:20 "we wait for Jesus to return from heaven"

1 Thess 4:13-18 - rapture - Jesus descends from heaven.. dead in Christ rise first then we who remain caught up together with them in AIR

15 For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we shall always be with the Lord. 18 Therefore comfort one another with these words.

Matt 24:31 Rapture - Christ sends angels to gather elect "From one end of the sky to the other"
30 And then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of the sky with power and great glory. 31 And He will send forth His angels with a great trumpet and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of the sky to the other.

John 14 does not say Jesus takes us back to heaven. That is assumed. When Jesus comes again He reigns and rules on this earth until its recreation. Jesus is currently in heaven creating the mansions that will brought down to this earth per Revelation. No scripture teaches we will spend eternity in heaven where Christ now dwells. There will be a new heaven and earth. No scripture teaches Jesus will return to earth and then reverse course back to heaven, that is a teaching of man. I am open to scripture references that disprove what I say here. John 14 is not it. We will be with Him right here on this earth both before and after its recreation.

 

[Clare73]

John 14 does not say Jesus takes us back to heaven. That is assumed.

Actually, we accompany Jesus on his descent to earth (parousia) to assist in the Final Judgment (1 Co 6:3), which is the end of time.

 

[Postvieww]

Actually, we accompany Jesus on his descent to earth (parousia) to assist in the Final Judgment (1 Co 6:3), which is the end of time.

The spirits of deceased believers are with Jesus in heaven now it is that group of saints that returns with Jesus at His one and only return to earth.

 

[Clare73]

The spirits of deceased believers are with Jesus in heaven now it is that group that returns with Jesus at His one and only return to earth.

Apostolic teaching (1 Th 4:16-17) of Jesus Christ (Lk 10:16), as distinct from personal interpretation of prophetic riddles not spoken clearly (Nu 12:6-8), is:
the catching up of the saints in the air is after the resurrection at the second coming, where all the saints--the resurrected and the currently living--will be caught up to meet Jesus in the air and return with him to earth (parousia) to assist in the Final Judgment (1 Co 6:3).

 

[Postvieww]

Actually, we accompany Jesus on his descent to earth (parousia) to assist in the Final Judgment (1 Co 6:3), which is the end of time.

Let's be specific! Are you saying resurrected saints along with those caught up that are alive and remain return from heaven with Jesus or are you saying when Jesus returns those that are alive and remain that are caught up along with the resurrected into their new glorified bodies are the ones that come back down to earth with Jesus at His one and only coming yet in our future. Please be clear these are two very different beliefs. I believe the latter is scripturally correct.

 

[Clare73]

Let's be specific! Are you saying resurrected saints along with those caught up that are alive and remain return from heaven with Jesus

Heaven is not for bodies before the resurrection.
There are only born again spirits in heaven, whose bodies are in the grave returning to dust.

or are you saying when Jesus returns those that are alive and remain that are caught up along with the resurrected into their new glorified bodies are the ones that come back down to earth with Jesus at His one and only coming yet in our future. Please be clear these are two very different beliefs. I believe the latter is scripturally correct.

Yes, the bodies of those redeemed who are still living at the second coming will be glorified, along with the bodies of those risen from the grave, all the glorified saints being caught up to meet the Lord in the air (1 Th 4:16-17) and descend with him to earth (parousia) to assist in the Final Judgment (1 Co 6:3).

 

[BobRyan]

John 14 does not say Jesus takes us back to heaven.

Matt 6 "Our Father who is in heaven"
John 14:1-3 "in my Father's house are many mansions - I GO to prepare A PLACE for you.. I will come again AND RECEIVE YOU TO Myself that WHERE I am you may be also

When Jesus comes again He reigns and rules on this earth

When Jesus appears " he sends His angels to gather His elect from one end of the SKY to the other" Matt 24:31
1 Thess 4:13-18 - "the dead in Christ RISE first then who we are alive and remain are CAUGHT UP (Latin- RAPTURO) with THEM to MEET the Lord in the AIR... in this way we shall ever be WITH the LORD"

Jesus takes the saints TO the place He has prepared for us - a place IN His Father's house, His Father in Heaven

No scripture teaches we will spend eternity in heaven

No view of the rapture says we stay in heaven for eternity

There will be a new heaven and earth.

which is after the rapture, after the appearing of Christ and after the 1000 year millennium - according to Rev 20

I am open to scripture references that disprove what I say here

That is encouraging

 

[BobRyan]

Why people continue to split "the coming of the Lord" into two separate events is beyond me.

Matt 6 "Our Father who is in heaven"
John 14:1-3 "in my Father's house are many mansions - I GO to prepare A PLACE for you.. I will come again AND RECEIVE YOU TO Myself that WHERE I am you may be also

does not say " I will come again and join you here"

When Jesus appears " he sends His angels to gather His elect from one end of the SKY to the other" Matt 24:31
1 Thess 4:13-18 - "the dead in Christ RISE first then who we are alive and remain are CAUGHT UP (Latin- RAPTURO) with THEM to MEET the Lord in the AIR... in this way we shall ever be WITH the LORD"

Jesus takes the saints TO the place He has prepared for us - a place IN His Father's house, His Father in Heaven

 

[Postvieww]

Matt 6 "Our Father who is in heaven"
John 14:1-3 "in my Father's house are many mansions - I GO to prepare A PLACE for you.. I will come again AND RECEIVE YOU TO Myself that WHERE I am you may be also

Agree our Father is in heaven, currently! Agree there are many mansions in our Fathers house! Revelation describes those mansions we will inhabit and they will be brought down to the new earth. No scripture says we will temporarily inhabit them in heaven for 7 years and then vacate while events unfold on earth and the new city is moved to earth. When Jesus comes and receives us we will be with Him which is right here on this earth . When He comes He is here not there. Show me a scripture that says resurrected, glorified saints are ever in heaven (where God currently dwells ). 2 Thessalonians is clear , our gathering is after the apostasy and the revealing of the man of sin and is in perfect alignment with Matthew 24. There is only one more return of Christ to this earth not two.

When Jesus appears " he sends His angels to gather His elect from one end of the SKY to the other" Matt 24:31
1 Thess 4:13-18 - "the dead in Christ RISE first then who we are alive and remain are CAUGHT UP (Latin- RAPTURO) with THEM to MEET the Lord in the AIR... in this way we shall ever be WITH the LORD"

Agree with Matthew 24. And agree we meet Christ in the air but you still have not shown a scripture that says after meeting in the air we return to heaven . Some try to force that into John 14 but it is not there.

Jesus takes the saints TO the place He has prepared for us - a place IN His Father's house, His Father in Heaven

Does not say that you assume that!

which is after the rapture, after the appearing of Christ and after the 1000 year millennium - according to Rev 20

See above.

That is encouraging

There are no clearly stated scriptures that says what you claim. Nothing states we return to heaven in a glorified body, nothing ever refers to glorified saint ever being in heaven, the souls of physically dead saints are shown in heaven and those are saints that return with Christ at his one and only second coming. The pre-trib rapture is a teaching of man only arrived at by making assumptions not sated in scripture.

 

[BobRyan]

Matt 6 "Our Father who is in heaven"
John 14:1-3 "in my Father's house are many mansions - I GO to prepare A PLACE for you.. I will come again AND RECEIVE YOU TO Myself that WHERE I am you may be also "

Agree our Father is in heaven, currently!

And it was also true that the Father was in heaven in John 14.

It was without question that Jesus said He would go to heaven - and there - prepare A PLACE for His people.

Matt 5 "great is your reward IN HEAVEN"

. No scripture says we will temporarily inhabit them in heaven for 7 years and then vacate while events unfold on earth

I don't claim that we will go to heaven for 7 years while events unfold on Earth. I agree that Bible is not saying that.

But it does teach a literal rapture.

and the new city is moved to earth. When Jesus comes and receives us we will be with Him

In 1 Thess 4 - Paul says that it is the rapture that is the mechanism whereby the condition is reached "and so in this way " and so shall we ever be with the Lord. vs 18.

Agree with Matthew 24. And agree we meet Christ in the air but you still have not shown a scripture that says after meeting in the air we return to heaven .

The burden of proof for the "big bounce" idea is on the ones proposing it - no text says it and it does not make sense.

If our place is prepared for us in heaven - and Jesus comes to take us there - then "bounce" is not what is being described.

 

[Postvieww]

It was without question that Jesus said He would go to heaven - and there - prepare A PLACE for His people.

Matt 5 "great is your reward IN HEAVEN"

Please correct me if I am wrong but as understand your belief it will have to be a short 7 years earth time stay in heaven. You say you don’t believe that but how long will it be . We rule and reign on this earth with Christ. Please explain just exactly what you believe here .

 

[JulieB67]

does not say " I will come again and join you here"

It does not say "I will come again and take you to heaven". It states "I will come again and receive you to myself that where I am you may be also".

Mansions/mone means -"a staying" i.e. residence. And it can be the place or the act. A place to abode. We can even find that today according to the rest of the verses in that chapter when he talks about the Comforter. But when Christ returns he will receive us unto himself.

When we read further into this chapter we come to this verses-

John 14:18 "I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you."

John 14:23 "Jesus answered and said unto him, "If a man love Me, he will keep My words: and My Father will love him, and We will come unto him, and make Our abode with him."

The word "abode" in this verse is the very same Greek word that's translated "mansions" in the earlier verse-mone. And we know today we that's who we should be abiding in -Christ. That's the "staying" that's the rest we find in Christ. All of these verses need to be read in order to get the full context of what Christ is stating. Even the word "house" one of the words in the Greek meaning is "abode" which can be figuratively or literally.

And according to the word "receive" -

Acts 3:21 "Whom the heaven must receive unto the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all His holy prophets since the world began.

This would institute just one more coming.

We are meeting the Lord in the "air" (breathable atmosphere) as he returns. It's a coming, not a going.

And if we read further into chapter 5, Paul himself calls this event, the event at the end of chapter 4 -the day of the Lord. And then goes further into 2nd Thes and states that "day" shall not happen.....until certain events unfold. So we can see Acts 3:21 is most definitely true.



Hebrews 9:28 "So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for Him shall He appear the second time without sin, unto salvation."

We will have a new heaven and earth. And as it states the meek shall inherit the earth. When do you think that happens?

 

[Bro.T]

Let's go into Luke 1: 31 And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS. 32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David: 33 and he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end.

So we know David is dead and buried now (Acts : 2:29), but this kingdom Jesus will reign over is at Jesus second coming, at that time David will be resurrected as well.

Lets go into 1Thessalonians 3:13 To the end he may stablish your hearts unblameable in holiness before God, even our Father, at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ with all his saints. So here we have all those Saints who will make the first resurrection, but remember Jesus is King of Kings and Lord of Lords. Now understand that David will still be king as well in the future.

Let's go into the future in Ezekiel 37: 21 And say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I will take the children of Israel from among the heathen, whither they be gone, and will gather them on every side, and bring them into their own land: 22 and I will make them one nation in the land upon the mountains of Israel; and one king shall be king to them all: and they shall be no more two nations, neither shall they be divided into two kingdoms any more at all: 23 neither shall they defile themselves any more with their idols, nor with their detestable things, nor with any of their transgressions: but I will save them out of all their dwellingplaces, wherein they have sinned, and will cleanse them: so shall they be my people, and I will be their God. 24 And David my servant shall be king over them; and they all shall have one shepherd: they shall also walk in my judgments, and observe my statutes, and do them. 25 And they shall dwell in the land that I have given unto Jacob my servant, wherein your fathers have dwelt; and they shall dwell therein, even they, and their children, and their children's children for ever: and my servant David shall be their prince for ever. 26 Moreover I will make a covenant of peace with them; it shall be an everlasting covenant with them: and I will place them, and multiply them, and will set my sanctuary in the midst of them for evermore. 27 My tabernacle also shall be with them: yea, I will be their God, and they shall be my people. 28 And the heathen shall know that I the LORD do sanctify Israel, when my sanctuary shall be in the midst of them for evermore.

Notice at this time Israel will not be in captivity among the heathen as they are now. One last place, let's see when Jesus and David and all the saints are back, this is what the people in the world will be doing.

Let's go into Isaiah 2: 2 And it shall come to pass in the last days, that the mountain of the LORD's house shall be established in the top of the mountains, and shall be exalted above the hills; and all nations shall flow unto it. 3 And many people shall go and say, Come ye, and let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for out of Zion shall go forth the law, and the word of the LORD from Jerusalem. 4 And he shall judge among the nations, and shall rebuke many people: and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruninghooks: nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more. All this is at the second coming of Jesus and on the earth, not in heaven.