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criminal justice reform

dogs4thewin

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I guess this would go here.

What reforms should be made to the criminal justice system which is a BAD system.
 
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dogs4thewin

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No bail for violent crimes, no plea deals.
No plea deals would be the most foolish thing. Reason being the system would fall apart.
 
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Pommer

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BCP1928

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Bail is set to ensure the defendant shows up for court dates, not “pre-punishment”.
Bail is allowed for those awaiting trial if it appears that they will not be a danger to society if allowed out on the street while they wait. It is not unusual in hotspots like Chicago for a person arrested for a shooting crime to be arrested for another one a few days later. I believe the record is three times in a week.
Every defendant goes to trial?
Every violent offender who doesn't plead guilty to the crime with which he was charged.
 
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BCP1928

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No plea deals would be the most foolish thing. Reason being the system would fall apart.
If you have to allow plea deals for serious violent offenses then the system has already fallen apart.
 
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Hans Blaster

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If you have to allow plea deals for serious violent offenses then the system has already fallen apart.
The accused have been admitting guilt and throwing themselves on the mercy of the court since before stylus first pressed into soft clay. This is no different.
 
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Belk

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I guess this would go here.

What reforms should be made to the criminal justice system which is a BAD system.
Off the top of my head.

1) Increase police training and salary to attract better candidates.
2) Implement nationwide policing standards group.
3) Deal with the legacy of qualified immunity.
4) Ensure prosecutors are charging based on crime level not one's political ambitions.
5) Make prisons a place of rehabilitation, not punishment.

All of which requires money we are not willing to spend. :(
 
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BCP1928

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Off the top of my head.

1) Increase police training and salary to attract better candidates.
2) Implement nationwide policing standards group.
3) Deal with the legacy of qualified immunity.
4) Ensure prosecutors are charging based on crime level not one political ambitions.
5) Make prisons a place of rehabilitation, not punishment.

All of which requires money we are not willing to spend. :(
Which was the basis of my point. If you can't give the accused a speedy and public trial then in the end you have often to let him off. The critical path issue is not the police, it's the courts. What do you do if you know you can't bring a man to trial for two or three years or more? Let him out on bail even though you suspect he might shoot somebody else in the meantime? Let him plead guilty to a lesser offence both he and you know he didn't actually commit? And, no, the delay is not often due to defendant stalling, it's due to underfunding of the court system. So, two or three years ago by, evidence is lost, witnesses' memories fade or they die or move away, even the arresting officer may no longer be available and the case falls apart anyway. No. The way we do it now won't work no matter how good the police are. No bail for violent offenders, no plea deals and the right to a speedy and public trial guaranteed to them by the Constitution.
 
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Fantine

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One thing no one has written about or thought of. Elect law abiding leaders who sent a good example for the Youth of America and we will have fewer criminals . When people like the president himself continually escapes accountability other than paying hundreds of millions of dollars of legal bills, young people have no one to look up to. They believe the system is unfair. They believe that only tax frauds and people who cheat their subcontractors and people who game the system can get ahead. Think about that next time you vote.
 
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dogs4thewin

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If you have to allow plea deals for serious violent offenses then the system has already fallen apart.
Maybe so but it does not change the fact that 90+% of cases are resolved by plea deals. There are literally not enough courtrooms, judges layers (on either side) for there to not be plea deals. The DA does the deal, BUT the defendant is the one who can waive time. Without plea deals there would be NO way that the state could get all of the case to trial within the usually six months they are required to do so under the law. If the state denies the speedy trial right then they are forced to release the person It does not matter the crime the state follows the speedy trial requirement or they release them (unless the DEFENDANT waives time.) Now, once the defendant waives time it becomes a little easier, but the state have to be ready to go they generally cannot waive time like the defendant can.
 
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dogs4thewin

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Off the top of my head.

1) Increase police training and salary to attract better candidates.
2) Implement nationwide policing standards group.
3) Deal with the legacy of qualified immunity.
4) Ensure prosecutors are charging based on crime level not one's political ambitions.
5) Make prisons a place of rehabilitation, not punishment.

All of which requires money we are not willing to spend. :(
funny thing is it saves money in the long run.
 
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Belk

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Judgements that go the plaintiffs way, are partially taken from pension funds?
Eeehhhh, that does not strike me as a good resolution. We need to get rid of qualified immunity as a concept and replace it with situational immunity. Basically an immunity for lawful actions and an exception process if there is something blatantly illegal or obviously against good governance.
 
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Desk trauma

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Eeehhhh, that does not strike me as a good resolution.
We may have gone around on this before but I think this would be the most effective way to end police closing ranks around bad actors or shuffling them off to other departments.
 
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Richard T

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Plea deals are so advantageous that often the innocent will admit to guilt to avoid the risk of a long sentence. Plead out and get 5 years, don't plead out and look at 25? Is that justice? No way, those numbers should be far closer. The right for a trial by jury was not envisioned to be such a penalty versus one that reaches a plea deal. Yes, this would require a big ramp up in courts public defenders and judges. It is worth it to help those innocents that get caught in the system.
Faith based prisons and alternatives should be considered in reforms. There is some of that now. Especially divert more juvenile and minor crimes to alternative programs.
Make better use of prison labor. I know one state where some prisoners build homes for the poor, I think that some prisons could turn a profit and pay wages with the right mix of prisoners and opportunities.
These ideas are not new. For out of the box ideas, perhaps we could exile repeat offenders from a single state or even a county? Such treatment would prevent their past associations from hindering them in the future. It would deter some crime to if criminals thought that if they were caught again in that state, they would never be allowed back in legally.
The USA should consider the use of corporal punishment. Caning like it is done in Singapore to some 6000 annually really does deter some crime.
To fight rich crime we need more accountability from those who use money to buy their way out. Lawyer bills above 100K for criminal offenses should be taxed heavily. Non-disclosure payments also taxed heavily, civil settlements to avoid criminal proceedings also taxed heavily.
 
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Larniavc

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No plea deals would be the most foolish thing. Reason being the system would fall apart.
Get a new system. Isn't that the point of the thread?
 
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Larniavc

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The accused have been admitting guilt and throwing themselves on the mercy of the court since before stylus first pressed into soft clay. This is no different.
Pleading guilty to the charge and a plea deal are not the same thing.
 
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Belk

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Which was the basis of my point. If you can't give the accused a speedy and public trial then in the end you have often to let him off. The critical path issue is not the police, it's the courts. What do you do if you know you can't bring a man to trial for two or three years or more? Let him out on bail even though you suspect he might shoot somebody else in the meantime? Let him plead guilty to a lesser offence both he and you know he didn't actually commit? And, no, the delay is not often due to defendant stalling, it's due to underfunding of the court system. So, two or three years ago by, evidence is lost, witnesses' memories fade or they die or move away, even the arresting officer may no longer be available and the case falls apart anyway. No. The way we do it now won't work no matter how good the police are. No bail for violent offenders, no plea deals and the right to a speedy and public trial guaranteed to them by the Constitution.
I thought my ideas were expensive. While I don't disagree with your points you are talking about a massive build up of our current legal infrastructure. Both on the prosecution and the public defense sides along with increased need for courts.
 
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