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Substitutionary Atonement

The Liturgist

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But if the cross does not point people to believe in Jesus for Eternal Life

It does, actually, and that is plain in the doctrine. The relics of the Holy Cross are also known for their miraculous properties which is why the Orthodox, Roman Catholics and other liturgical Christians venerate them.

This is despite the fact that the Orthodox do not believe in the doctrine of penal substitutionary atonement per se, which was a Calvinist development of the Satisfaction theology of Anselm of Canterbury, which we don’t find in the writings of the early church.

That said what we do find is that Christ did offer Himself up as a ransom to save sinners, that He voluntarily sacrificed Himself for our sins - the problem, as Metropolitan Kallistos Ware points out, arises if we ask “to whom did He sacrifice Himself.” Since He is God, Anselm’s theology is contradictory since for one person of the Trinity to have to sacrifice themselves to appease the wrath of another violates the principles that God is Love, that the three persons of the Holy and Undivided Trinity are united in their love, for a house divided against itself cannot stand, as Christ says, and conversely, regarding the devil, that argument is absurd because the devil has no rights and is not entitled to punish anyone for their sins but rather stands condemned, thus, while our Lord sacrificed Himself for our benefit, it was not as an act of penal substitionary atonement as the Calvinists argue, but a sacrifice made by God who died in order to defeat death, so that we might benefit from His resurrection unto everlasting life.
 
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The Liturgist

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With appropriate nuance, sure. But it rarely is expressed with that kind of nuance. And what makes PSA different from the earlier Thomasistic atonement is that it forwards God's wrath as what is beng satisfied, rather than justice. Which is where the placating a volcano god charge comes from. So while it isn't entirely an issue and can be a part of an overall understanding of the gospel, setting it as the principal atonement theory flattens it especially because it's often paired with a theory about imputed sin from Adam and imputed righteousness from Jesus.

Thank you for stressing that difference from an informed theological perspective. I greatly appreciate that.
 
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The Liturgist

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But I don’t know that there’s even need for distinction here. The cross is God beckoning us to a love so huge and deep we can only begin to fathom it, a love so great that it would go to any extent to prove itself, in order to give us something worth believing in. That’s why Jesus came, to fully reveal the true nature and will of God. That was God on the cross, suffering and dying in human flesh. Everything Jesus said did was part of that revelation, so that we might know Him and in knowing Him might come to believe.

"Now this is eternal life: that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent." John 17:3

This is an absolutely beautiful post which reflects the views of the early church Fathers and represents the reality of what happened, free from any trace of Nestorianism or crypto-Arianism.
 
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Jack Terrence

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Substitutionary atonement is the biblical teaching that Jesus Christ died in the place of sinners, taking on Himself the punishment we deserved, so that we could be forgiven and reconciled to God through faith.

In other words:

1. We broke God’s law.

2. We deserve judgment (Romans 6:23).

3. Jesus stepped in as our substitute, taking the penalty in our place.

4. Because of His sacrifice, God’s justice is satisfied, and His mercy is freely given to us through faith.


So the cross is both justice and love meeting together. Let us not forget this beautiful gospel message.
Substitutionary atonement is a Calvinist myth. Justice and love do not meet together in the cross because it is neither just nor loving to punish an innocent man.
 
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d taylor

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I appreciate the emphasis you’re placing on the necessity of faith in Christ for eternal life. Scripture is indeed clear that salvation is not merely about recognizing historical events but about personally trusting in Jesus—who He is and what He has accomplished. As John writes, “These things are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in His name” (John 20:31).

However, we should not separate the cross itself from the life-giving power of God’s grace. The cross is not merely a “pointer” or symbolic event—it is the decisive moment in redemptive history where sin was borne, justice was satisfied, and the power of death was defeated. Without the cross, there is no objective basis for our reconciliation with God.

It’s true that the cross in isolation, apart from resurrection and apart from faith, does not automatically confer eternal life. But the cross is not meant to be seen in isolation. It is part of the whole saving work of Christ: His incarnation, perfect obedience, atoning death, resurrection, and ascension. These are not separate pieces loosely tied together but one unified saving act.

So we might say:

The cross accomplished the grounds of salvation—Christ bore our sins, satisfied divine justice, and reconciled humanity to God.

The resurrection vindicated that work, demonstrating Christ’s victory over sin and death.

Faith is the means by which we personally receive that salvation, entering into the eternal life that He secured.

In other words, the cross is objectively powerful—not a mere pointer, but the true act by which God removed sin. Yet its benefits are subjectively received through faith, because salvation is relational: it is union with the living Christ, not simply intellectual agreement about a past event.

So when we say “the cross is the key that opens heaven,” it is not that the wood or suffering in itself is magical, but that in the cross, the Son of God took upon Himself the full weight of our estrangement from God. And when we believe in Him—not merely in an abstract “eternal life,” but in the crucified and risen Christ—we are united to Him and share in His life.

Thus the cross is both objective atonement and relational invitation. It is the finished work that grounds salvation, but faith is the means by which we enter into its reality.
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I will have to disagree with where you stated the cross defeated death. The resurrection defeated death, not the cross.

The cross was for satisfying God's payment for sin for the world. All people (believers and unbelievers) had their sin paid for with Jesus' death on the cross.
But unless a person believes in Jesus for Eternal Life they will remain a sinner who sin has been paid for. But will be cast into the lake of fire for all eternity, because their names will not be found in the book of life.

The cross tore the curtain that sin had put up between man and God. So the only separation that remains is belief, to enter into God's family of life.
 
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d taylor

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It does, actually, and that is plain in the doctrine. The relics of the Holy Cross are also known for their miraculous properties which is why the Orthodox, Roman Catholics and other liturgical Christians venerate them.

This is despite the fact that the Orthodox do not believe in the doctrine of penal substitutionary atonement per se, which was a Calvinist development of the Satisfaction theology of Anselm of Canterbury, which we don’t find in the writings of the early church.

That said what we do find is that Christ did offer Himself up as a ransom to save sinners, that He voluntarily sacrificed Himself for our sins - the problem, as Metropolitan Kallistos Ware points out, arises if we ask “to whom did He sacrifice Himself.” Since He is God, Anselm’s theology is contradictory since for one person of the Trinity to have to sacrifice themselves to appease the wrath of another violates the principles that God is Love, that the three persons of the Holy and Undivided Trinity are united in their love, for a house divided against itself cannot stand, as Christ says, and conversely, regarding the devil, that argument is absurd because the devil has no rights and is not entitled to punish anyone for their sins but rather stands condemned, thus, while our Lord sacrificed Himself for our benefit, it was not as an act of penal substitionary atonement as the Calvinists argue, but a sacrifice made by God who died in order to defeat death, so that we might benefit from His resurrection unto everlasting life.
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I see nothing Biblically to support that relics of the cross have any miraculous power or that they even exist.

I see no reference or mention in The Bible of Paul, John, Peter, James, etc.. carrying around wood from the cross of Jesus

Paul just refers to the cross as a tree.

Christ has redeemed us from the curse of the law, having become a curse for us (for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who hangs on a tree”),

Like this verse, which i do not believe is actually speaking about the wood cross Jesus was crucified on.

For many walk, of whom I have told you often, and now tell you even weeping, that they are the enemies of the cross of Christ:
 
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The Liturgist

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Paul just refers to the cross as a tree.

Not true. “We preach Christ crucified.” The Gospels refer to it as a cross - St. Paul is making an allusion to the Old Testament.
 
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d taylor

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Not true. “We preach Christ crucified.” The Gospels refer to it as a cross - St. Paul is making an allusion to the Old Testament.
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And He, bearing His cross, went out to a place called the Place of a Skull, which is called in Hebrew, Golgotha,
It could as well been a pole or a stake as the word for cross in Greek is stauros.

1. a stake or post (as set upright)
2. (specially) a pole or cross (as an instrument of capital punishment)
3. (figuratively) exposure to death, i.e. self-denial
4. (by implication) the atonement of Christ

From the base of histemi; a stake or post (as set upright), i.e. (specially), a pole or cross (as an instrument of capital punishment); figuratively, exposure to death, i.e. Self-denial; by implication, the atonement of Christ -- cross.


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Jonaitis

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With appropriate nuance, sure. But it rarely is expressed with that kind of nuance. And what makes PSA different from the earlier Thomasistic atonement is that it forwards God's wrath as what is beng satisfied, rather than justice. Which is where the placating a volcano god charge comes from. So while it isn't entirely an issue and can be a part of an overall understanding of the gospel, setting it as the principal atonement theory flattens it especially because it's often paired with a theory about imputed sin from Adam and imputed righteousness from Jesus.
You’re right that much of the popular presentation of PSA lacks nuance, and that’s where the distortions creep in. When wrath is framed as if God were a capricious deity who simply demands blood to cool His temper, it devolves into the “volcano god” caricature you mentioned. I fully agree that this is a profound misrepresentation and that PSA cannot stand alone as the entirety of atonement theology.

But I would also suggest that God’s wrath and God’s justice cannot be separated, at least biblically. Wrath, in Scripture, is not a volatile passion or arbitrary anger—it is God’s settled, holy opposition to sin because of His unwavering love for what is good. In that sense, wrath is simply justice viewed relationally and experientially. So when PSA speaks of wrath being “satisfied,” it’s not saying God needed to be appeased like a pagan deity; it’s saying that the full weight of sin’s consequence—the rightful judgment that sin deserves—was borne and exhausted in Christ.

In that way, PSA is not about placating God so that He will love us, but about God Himself taking responsibility to deal with the very real problem of evil so that love can triumph without compromising truth.

Now, you’re right that when PSA is made the principal or exclusive lens for the cross, it tends to flatten the richness of biblical atonement. The gospel isn’t reducible to a legal transaction; it also includes Christ as Victor over the powers, Christ as healer of our corrupted humanity, and Christ as the One who draws us into union with God. In the best theology, PSA sits within a wider tapestry—it addresses the forensic/moral dimension, while Christus Victor addresses the cosmic dimension, and participatory models emphasize union and transformation.

On the Thomistic point, yes—Aquinas emphasizes the restoration of divine honor and order rather than wrath as such, but even Thomas acknowledges God’s hatred of sin as a necessary consequence of His goodness. The Reformation-era articulation brought wrath into sharper focus because it saw more clearly the personal dimension of lawbreaking before a holy God. Yet, even then, in its best form, the Reformers did not pit wrath against love; they saw the cross as the very outpouring of divine love through wrath against sin.

Where I think we would both agree is that PSA must not be presented as a standalone abstraction. If it’s divorced from the larger biblical narrative—of God’s covenant love, His restorative purposes, and the ultimate goal of communion—it becomes legalistic and even grotesque. But when placed in context, it highlights one crucial aspect of the gospel: that sin is not ignored or excused, but decisively dealt with by God Himself at infinite cost to Himself.

So I would say PSA, rightly nuanced, complements other atonement motifs without replacing them. It ensures the moral seriousness of sin and the reality of justice are not lost, while still affirming that the ultimate aim is reconciliation and union, not merely legal satisfaction.
 
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bling

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Substitutionary atonement is the biblical teaching that Jesus Christ died in the place of sinners, taking on Himself the punishment we deserved, so that we could be forgiven and reconciled to God through faith.

In other words:

1. We broke God’s law.

2. We deserve judgment (Romans 6:23).

3. Jesus stepped in as our substitute, taking the penalty in our place.

4. Because of His sacrifice, God’s justice is satisfied, and His mercy is freely given to us through faith.


So the cross is both justice and love meeting together. Let us not forget this beautiful gospel message.
I totally disagree with all popular theories of atonement.

I was forced into studying atonement by some Muslim students I had long ago, who had extensive access to excellent Muslim counter arguments for all the popular Christian Atonement theories. All these theories have huge issues, which I could not defend. As an example:

Atonement, Penal Substation (PS) Issues:

  • Unjust and unfair hurting the innocent and allowing the guilty to go unpunished
  • Has God seeing to the torture humiliation and murder of Christ (punishes Christ).
  • Makes God out to be blood thirsty.
  • There is no logical part for man to play.
  • It is not participative but passive “Christ was crucified so I do not have to be” v.s. “Christ was crucified so I must be crucified”.
  • If Christ is paying it all than there is nothing to forgive.
  • Lev. 5 describes what the atonement sacrifice is in relationship to the sinner (a penalty or punishment/discipline) and it is not said to replace him in any way.
  • In Lev. 5 you have the exact same sin being atoned for with different atoning sacrifices apparently to level the hardship on the sinner, which if they are to be substitutes for the sinner, should be the exact same.
  • All the benefits from being lovingly fairly justly disciplined are not there with PS.
  • PS mean’s universal atonement was completed for everyone (all were atoned for, so all should be saved).
  • Peter does not mention Penal Substitution in his wonderful Christ Crucified sermon on Pentecost, nor any time before the stoning of Steven.
  • The sin sacrifices of the OT can be a bag of flour, so could a bag of flour be a human substitute.
  • There are others individuals at the cross which can be seen way better as standing in for us (mockers, soldiers, teachers of the Law , a thief), so how can we so arrogant as to say Jesus is standing in for me.
  • The idea is we are crucified “with” Christ and not instead of.
  • The Greek words translate “for” do not support the interpretation of “instead of”.
  • It does not explain how atonement is a ransom scenario.
  • PS emphasis is on a problem God is having and not man’s problem being solved.
  • It does not fit lots of scripture especially Ro. 3:25
  • PS emphasizes God’s wrath as the problem and not man’s personal need.
 
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Valletta

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I see nothing Biblically to support that relics of the cross have any miraculous power or that they even exist.

I see no reference or mention in The Bible of Paul, John, Peter, James, etc.. carrying around wood from the cross of Jesus

Paul just refers to the cross as a tree.

Christ has redeemed us from the curse of the law, having become a curse for us (for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who hangs on a tree”),

Like this verse, which i do not believe is actually speaking about the wood cross Jesus was crucified on.

For many walk, of whom I have told you often, and now tell you even weeping, that they are the enemies of the cross of Christ:
The Bible does not give us a list of objects that will be there in the future. Some objects did survive into modern times and some did not. While the Bible says nothing specifically about a relic of the cross, it does mention relics.

Acts 19:12 so that handkerchiefs or aprons were carried away from his body to the sick, and diseases left them and the evil spirits came out of them. RSVCE

Luke 14:27 Whoever does not bear his own cross and come after me, cannot be my disciple. RSVCE
 
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d taylor

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The Bible does not give us a list of objects that will be there in the future. Some objects did survive into modern times and some did not. While the Bible says nothing specifically about a relic of the cross, it does mention relics.

Acts 19:12 so that handkerchiefs or aprons were carried away from his body to the sick, and diseases left them and the evil spirits came out of them. RSVCE

Luke 14:27 Whoever does not bear his own cross and come after me, cannot be my disciple. RSVCE
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Handkerchiefs and aprons were not relics if you are defining a relic as the word is commonly used. They were just everyday common objects and this was done only by Paul (according to The Bible).

Now God worked unusual miracles by the hands of Paul,

relic /rĕl′ĭk/ noun
1. Something that has survived the passage of time, especially an object or custom whose original culture has disappeared.
2. Something cherished for its age or historic interest.
3. An object kept for its association with the past; a memento.

I am not denying that for a believer to be a disciple, they must leave a worldly life to be a disciple of Jesus. To cast their lot with Jesus and to bear shame as a believer and even die (in some cases). Which was very likely back then when Jesus stated this.
But saying that a person must bear his on cross is not speaking about a physical cross.
 
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Jack Terrence

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I will have to disagree with where you stated the cross defeated death. The resurrection defeated death, not the cross.

The cross was for satisfying God's payment for sin for the world. All people (believers and unbelievers) had their sin paid for with Jesus' death on the cross.
But unless a person believes in Jesus for Eternal Life they will remain a sinner who sin has been paid for. But will be cast into the lake of fire for all eternity, because their names will not be found in the book of life.

The cross tore the curtain that sin had put up between man and God. So the only separation that remains is belief, to enter into God's family of life.
The cross defeated death. Hebrews says that it was through death that Jesus destroyed him who had the power of death. The resurrection was the proof.
 
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d taylor

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The cross defeated death. Hebrews says that it was through death that Jesus destroyed him who had the power of death. The resurrection was the proof.
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The cross did noting it was Jesus who did, which was through death. Meaning that Jesus died as the perfect sin offering. That through death Jesus was able to be resurrected. If Jesus had not died, Jesus could have not been resurrected.

But still knowing and believing all this about Jesus' death and resurrection. Does not matter, if a person does not believe in Jesus (the living Son of God) for God's free gift of Eternal life.
 
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