Dead to the Law

NewLifeInChristJesus · Jul 8, 2025

HIM said:
You are right about the death part. However, The Law of Sin is our slavery to Sin. That is what those who are in Christ Jesus have been set free from. Read the following with that in mind.

Hmmm. Romans 8:2 says we have been set free from "the law of sin and death". The nexus between "sin" and "death" does not go away because of things said about "the law of sin" in chapter 7. On the contrary, the nexus between sin and death is there on purpose because it is one of the main themes of the entire book of Romans. And the main theme of Romans is that the nexus between sin and death is broken by God sending His Son to die on a cross for our sins so that we would not face His wrath if we placed our trust in Him. That is also the point of Romans 8:2.

HIM said:
If you still don't see, we will show you.

Who is "we"? SDA? Your arguments sound like theirs.

HIM said:
Rom 7:17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
Romans 7:18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.
Romans 7:19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
Romans 7:20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
Romans 7:21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.
Romans 7:22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
Romans 7:23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.

Rom 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
Rom 8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
Rom 8:4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

BelieveItOarKnot · Jul 9, 2025

NewLifeInChristJesus said:
What is an "entity class"?

Jesus, on nearly every page of the Gospels, revealed Satan and devils within people. He engaged them within people. Revealed them in people. Castigated them in people. Cast them out of people. And commanded them in people.

I honestly don't know how anyone can read His Words and miss this critical point quite honestly.

But for years after I was saved, and probably read Mark 4:15 hundreds or more times, never once did it occur to me that Mark 4:15 happened to me as well as everyone else.

And we all, at least initially, fail to account for that "other entity class" in our theology positions.

Therefore, God in Christ loves all people, without exception.

and

God HATES the devil and his messengers, and WILL send them to eternal forever and ever HELLFIRE at the end of this wicked age.

All captives GO FREE by no merit of their own. This is the Gospel message. We proclaim it to reconcile people to the fact. But every last one of us is also carrying these vile things to their ultimate damnation final judgment and serve God in the process. Even though the majority are blind to it.

Romans 11:32
For God has bound everyone over to disobedience so that he may have mercy on them all.

The evil within NO ONE can comply to the laws of God, any of them. Therefore everyone who claims to be legally obedient is blissfully unaware of their own internal deceit. Jer. 17:9 is REAL for everyone, believer and unbeliever.

NewLifeInChristJesus · Jul 9, 2025

BelieveItOarKnot said:
Jesus, on nearly every page of the Gospels, revealed Satan and devils within people. He engaged them within people. Revealed them in people. Castigated them in people. Cast them out of people. And commanded them in people.

I honestly don't know how anyone can read His Words and miss this critical point quite honestly.

But for years after I was saved, and probably read Mark 4:15 hundreds or more times, never once did it occur to me that Mark 4:15 happened to me as well as everyone else.

And we all, at least initially, fail to account for that "other entity class" in our theology positions.

Therefore, God in Christ loves all people, without exception.

and

God HATES the devil and his messengers, and WILL send them to eternal forever and ever HELLFIRE at the end of this wicked age.

All captives GO FREE by no merit of their own. This is the Gospel message. We proclaim it to reconcile people to the fact. But every last one of us is also carrying these vile things to their ultimate damnation final judgment and serve God in the process. Even though the majority are blind to it.

Romans 11:32
For God has bound everyone over to disobedience so that he may have mercy on them all.

The evil within NO ONE can comply to the laws of God, any of them. Therefore everyone who claims to be legally obedient is blissfully unaware of their own internal deceit. Jer. 17:9 is REAL for everyone, believer and unbeliever.

Thank you for your reply. This is my first interraction with a Universalist. It conjurs up a whole different set of Scriptures than my usual arguments on works, election, sinless perfection, etc. But honestly, I have no desire to engage on this topic. I wish you the best.

BelieveItOarKnot · Jul 9, 2025

NewLifeInChristJesus said:
Thank you for your reply. This is my first interraction with a Universalist. It conjurs up a whole different set of Scriptures than my usual arguments on works, election, sinless perfection, etc. But honestly, I have no desire to engage on this topic. I wish you the best.

If believers need to believe their unsaved neighbors are going to burn alive forever I consider it the darkest part of the heart being trotted out for view, Jer. 17:9. Doesn't change post salvation.

Good luck with that. Nothing personal. God will save you regardless

1 John 4:
7 Dear friends, let us love one another, for love comes from God. Everyone who loves has been born of God and knows God.

HIM · 2025-07-21T05:29:00-0500

NewLifeInChristJesus said:
Hmmm. Romans 8:2 says we have been set free from "the law of sin and death". The nexus between "sin" and "death" does not go away because of things said about "the law of sin" in chapter 7. On the contrary, the nexus between sin and death is there on purpose because it is one of the main themes of the entire book of Romans. And the main theme of Romans is that the nexus between sin and death is broken by God sending His Son to die on a cross for our sins so that we would not face His wrath if we placed our trust in Him. That is also the point of Romans 8:2.

No one said any different. We are set from our bondage to sin, which is the law of sin. And we are set free from the consequences of our sin, death.

Your intial post to which instigated this conversation only spelled out being set free from the consequences.

NewLifeInChristJesus said:
Not in so many words. But Romans comes very close...

For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death. (Ro 8:2)
We have been set free from having to pay the wages of sin (which is eternal death) because by the Spirit we have received new life in Christ Jesus. This is the good news of the gospel, and we should all be able to rejoice in that. Amen?

NewLifeInChristJesus said:
Who is "we"? SDA? Your arguments sound like theirs.

No it doesn't.

NewLifeInChristJesus · 2025-07-21T06:27:08-0500

HIM said:
No one said any different. We are set from our bondage to sin, which is the law of sin. And we are set free from the consequences of our sin, death. Your intial post to which instigated this conversation only spelled out being set free from the consequences.

Yes, you are right. Both are true.

So then, with the mind I myself serve the law of God, but with the flesh the law of sin. (Ro 7:25–8:1)

HIM said:
No it doesn't.

I had second thoughts as soon as I sent it, but I was hoping you would give me the correct answer anyway.

HIM · 2025-07-21T07:39:38-0500

NewLifeInChristJesus said:
I had second thoughts as soon as I sent it, but I was hoping you would give me the correct answer anyway.

Correct answer? The following verse contain the correct answer ideally. This applies to all.

John 17:20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;
John 17:21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.
John 17:23 I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.

Galatians 2:20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

Galatians 3:27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
Galatians 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

Colossians 1:27 To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:
Colossians 1:28 Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus:
Colossians 1:29 Whereunto I also labour, striving according to his working, which worketh in me mightily.

NewLifeInChristJesus · 2025-07-21T07:54:25-0500

HIM said:
Correct answer? The following verse contain the correct answer ideally. This applies to all.

John 17:20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;
John 17:21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.
John 17:23 I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.

Galatians 2:20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

Galatians 3:27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
Galatians 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

Colossians 1:27 To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:
Colossians 1:28 Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus:
Colossians 1:29 Whereunto I also labour, striving according to his working, which worketh in me mightily.

Yeah, I was wondering who the "we" is when you said, "If you still don't see, we will show you." I was hoping you would clarify that part of the statement.

fhansen · 2025-07-21T13:41:52-0500

HIM said:
In respect to Christ now living vicariously through and with Paul, Paul continues to say if righteousness is of the Law and not of this faith, then Christ died for nothing.

Yes, faith is what first bonds us to God, so, "not of faith" means not of God: it means I'm trying to obey the law on my own apart from Him-and that is impossible. But with Him all things asre possible, including becoming who we were created to be, not sinners. It's a process because becoming "perfected in love" is a process and love is what overcomes sin, thereby fulfilling the law. It's the righteousness that the law and the prophets testify to but could never accomplish. To know and love God-and neighbor-is man's very purpose.

HIM · 2025-07-21T13:47:06-0500

fhansen said:
Yes, faith is what first bonds us to God, so, "not of faith" means not of God: it means I'm trying to obey the law on my own apart from Him-and that is impossible. But with Him all things asre possible, including becoming who we were created to be, not sinners.

And this non-sinning ability through Christ is key to understanding a lot of Paul’s writings to us. Galatians in particular.

fhansen · 2025-07-21T13:48:08-0500

HIM said:
And this non-sinning ability through Christ is key to understanding a lot of Paul’s writings to us. Galatians in particular.

Yes, much of Romans as well.

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Dead to the Law

NewLifeInChristJesus

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BelieveItOarKnot

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