What if Jefferson and Madison had AI?

The Barbarian said:

I contrasted the two in some detail for you. Did you not even read it? C'mon.


I showed you in Matthew why He cleansed the temple. Why not just take God's word as it is?


Political philosophy is not about morality or religious belief. It's like asking whether an airplane has better flight performance than a submarine.

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The Barbarian said:

You think that businessmen have liberties to set up tables in in anyone's house to buy and sell things? The Temple was God's house. Why would you think Jesus had no right to decide what went on there?

I don't think you've thought about this very well.

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The Barbarian said:

Not their house. As you might have noticed, Enlightenment philosophers would object to the government having any say in the matter.

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The Barbarian said:

Depends on whether or not Jesus is God. What do you think?

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The Barbarian said:

Officially, no. Romans didn't enter the Temple until 70 AD when the city and temple were destroyed by the Romans suppressing a rebellion.

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The Barbarian said:

Depends on whether or not Jesus is God. What do you think?


So do you think the Temple was God's?

This was long before the Enlightenment. Thought you knew. Didn't exist when Jesus cleared the Temple.


From a Christian perspective...

From ancient times down to the present, there is found among various peoples a certain perception of that hidden power which hovers over the course of things and over the events of human history; at times some indeed have come to the recognition of a Supreme Being, or even of a Father. This perception and recognition penetrates their lives with a profound religious sense.

Religions, however, that are bound up with an advanced culture have struggled to answer the same questions by means of more refined concepts and a more developed language. Thus in Hinduism, men contemplate the divine mystery and express it through an inexhaustible abundance of myths and through searching philosophical inquiry. They seek freedom from the anguish of our human condition either through ascetical practices or profound meditation or a flight to God with love and trust. Again, Buddhism, in its various forms, realizes the radical insufficiency of this changeable world; it teaches a way by which men, in a devout and confident spirit, may be able either to acquire the state of perfect liberation, or attain, by their own efforts or through higher help, supreme illumination. Likewise, other religions found everywhere try to counter the restlessness of the human heart, each in its own manner, by proposing "ways," comprising teachings, rules of life, and sacred rites. The Catholic Church rejects nothing that is true and holy in these religions. She regards with sincere reverence those ways of conduct and of life, those precepts and teachings which, though differing in many aspects from the ones she holds and sets forth, nonetheless often reflect a ray of that Truth which enlightens all men. Indeed, she proclaims, and ever must proclaim Christ "the way, the truth, and the life" (John 14:6), in whom men may find the fullness of religious life, in whom God has reconciled all things to Himself.(4)

Nostra aetate

Declaration on the Relation of the Church to non-christian religions - Nostra aetate

www.vatican.va

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The Barbarian said:

Today, my wife, suspicious of AI, asked "what if the Founders had AI?" Which immediately intrigued me. So I asked Chatgpt to design a government/society reflecting the writings of the enlightenment philosophers. Here's what it said:

Declaration of Reason and the Rights of Man​

Issued in the Age of Enlightenment, In the Name of Liberty, Virtue, and Reason​

When, in the course of human development, it becomes necessary for a people to liberate themselves from ignorance, superstition, and tyranny, and to assume the station of free and equal beings—guided not by blind tradition but by reason and justice—it is proper and essential to declare the principles which give legitimacy to their society and government.

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I. Of the Rights of Man and Citizen​

We hold these truths to be not self-evident by tradition, but proven by reason:

• That all men are born free and remain equal in rights.
• That the natural rights of man are liberty, property, security, and resistance to oppression. (Locke, Rousseau)
• That liberty consists in the power to do anything which does not harm another; hence the law may only prohibit that which injures society. (Voltaire, Rousseau)
• That the free exercise of reason, in speech, in religion, in the press, and in public discourse, is sacred and inviolable. (Voltaire, Kant)
• That no man shall be judged by his birth, class, or creed, but only by his conduct, his virtue, and his contribution to the common good. (Rousseau, Kant)

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II. Of the Origin and Purpose of Government​

• Government is not ordained by providence or tradition, but by the consent of the governed, formed through a social contract among rational individuals. (Locke, Rousseau)
• The sole purpose of government is to secure the rights of its citizens and to express the general will—the rational and moral interest of all. (Rousseau)
• Any government that becomes the instrument of private interest or arbitrary power is illegitimate and may be reformed or abolished. (Locke)
• Sovereignty resides in the people; no monarch, priest, or faction may claim power above them. (Rousseau, Voltaire)

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III. Of Law and Justice​

• Laws must be just, public, and rational, framed by representatives of the people. (Montesquieu, Beccaria)
• The law is an expression of the general will and must apply equally to all. No one is above the law. (Rousseau, Montesquieu)
• Punishment shall be proportionate to the crime, intended not to avenge but to deter. Torture and cruelty offend both reason and humanity. (Beccaria)
• Every accused shall be presumed innocent until proven guilty. Secret trials and arbitrary detentions are hereby condemned. (Beccaria, Montesquieu)

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IV. Of Knowledge and Enlightenment​

• Man's dignity consists in his capacity for reason. Ignorance is the tool of tyranny. (Kant)
• Education shall be universal, secular, and devoted to the cultivation of virtue, autonomy, and critical thinking. (Rousseau, Kant)
• Let every citizen have the freedom to speak, write, teach, and publish their thoughts without fear, for the free use of reason in public is the engine of enlightenment. (Voltaire, Kant)
• Dogma shall not rule where reason can inquire. Conscience shall not be coerced where truth can be persuaded.

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V. Of Society and Economy​

• Commerce and labor, freely pursued, shall contribute to the common prosperity. (Adam Smith)
• The state shall protect property, ensure fair competition, and provide for the needs of those unable to provide for themselves. (Smith, Rousseau)
• Excessive inequality corrupts liberty and undermines fraternity; laws shall restrain monopolies and privilege. (Rousseau, Smith)

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VI. Final Resolution​

We, the representatives of a free and enlightened people, do proclaim this declaration as a beacon for all nations and future generations:


So shall we build a society worthy of man’s nature—free, rational, and just.

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Ignatius the Kiwi said:

Jesus was not an enlightenment scholar. We are not taught by Christ that our principles are inferior to secular enlightenment principles. As much as you might believe in the superiority of secular thought.

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