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American Revolution was not Christian

mindlight

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Many of the antenicene fathers would disagree with you, such as Justin Martyr and Tertullian.

Neither of these articulate the mainstream view of the church on this issue. There is a time for war and for peace as the bible says and as King David demonstrated.

I'm not sure we can make parallels between tribal warfare and political revolutions. But my point was you seem to be inordinately worried about where to place worldly loyalty, and leaning far too heavily on assumptions involving Divine intent in various human governments.

Not sure what you mean by this. My basic point regarding authority is that there is no template for overthrowing or killing the Lord's anointed in scripture.

Not always, and questioning which worldly authorities to place our allegiance in seems to miss a larger point. As Tertullian put it: "Shall we carry a flag? It is a rival to Christ."

King George swore allegiance to God at his coronation and most Americans swore an oath of allegiance on the basis that his authority was Divinely approved.
 
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Just war, as understood by Augustine and the Catholic Church, has such a limited scope for application that very few wars fit the criteria.

Wars happen and they can happen for righteous reasons, like self-defense and the defense of other allied countries for example. Just War doctrine has been applied many times in history.

I was discussing Bonhoeffer with people in my church here in Germany. He was of the view that when good men do nothing evil prospers. That sometimes inaction was itself an action that sends a non-Christian message. Personally, I do not believe that the bible offers a template for killing a king even one as bad as Hitler or Nero, so I think Bonhoeffer was wrong. But I respect the fact that for conservative reasons he decided that it was better to act and do the wrong thing than not act and be tacitly agreeing to the evil being propagated by the leader. I expect to see him in heaven as I am sure that brothers who fought each other in Americas revolution and died for either side may also meet up in eternity.

The American revolution was justified by muddled theology like that of Bonhoeffer but in far less stressful circumstances. George was no Hitler and Romans 13:1-7 gave the British a mandate to use violence to maintain order. But there was a Christian character to the muddle in a way that few other revolutions except the English Civil War duplicate. The French revolution was atheism pure and simple and driven by a resentment for a class of stupid royals and aristocrats totally out of touch with the people. The Russian revolution was driven by the strains and stresses of war and similar level of inequality and oppression. Both were disasters that wounded these nations for the centuries that followed.
 
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Fervent

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Neither of these articulate the mainstream view of the church on this issue. There is a time for war and for peace as the bible says and as King David demonstrated.
Both predate Augustine's introduction of the pagan theory of just war, and were among the majority when they had written.
Not sure what you mean by this. My basic point regarding authority is that there is no template for overthrowing or killing the Lord's anointed in scripture.
Secular kings aren't the Lord's anointed.
King George swore allegiance to God at his coronation and most Americans swore an oath of allegiance on the basis that his authority was Divinely approved.
The sincerity of King George's swearing such allegiance aside, there is no indication that God established Divine monarchies outside of the Davidic kingdom. Secular powers remain secular even if they dress themselves up in religious garb.
 
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Amo2

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While the American Revolution was not specifically a Christian movement, without the battles for Christian liberty being already fought for centuries prior, and the overwhelming support of those who believed in and sought the same on our shores, the revolution would likely have never occurred. Their support in both the war, and formation of our Declaration of Independence and Constitution, were paramount to the successes of either. Representing the maturation of truly Protestant and or biblically based New Covenant inspired government. Government of and by the people, with individual rights and liberties guaranteed, even and especially concerning religious matters. Since the abuse of citizens in accord with and or alliances with religion, were a major cause of such abuses, observed in recent histories which the forefathers of these United States wished to avoid.

Far from a perfect development though it was, our unique situation of being composed of many different and varied populations with as varied religious, political, cultural, and social views, contributed heavily to the formation of a very tolerant and freedom loving form of government and legislative enactment. Though many of the people themselves, all seeking freedom for themselves, took longer than their written laws to actually embrace and or put into practice the freedoms and tolerance towards others they so eagerly embraced for themselves. Such as is, human nature, apparently.

Time once was, when we were proud of our unity among great diversity. When an ever increasing number of legal and or illegal immigrants came to our country truly seeking freedom, and not just a free ride. This is not to ignore the attitude of many natural born citizens as well, who have come to view our nation and government as a free ride as well, as though such had or has anything to doing with with true freedom. Which above all else, is based upon taking personal responsibility for one's self, family, church or religion, neighbors, towns, states, and country. Contributing to the liberality of all of the same. Not living off of such liberality, as though such blessings of freedom, productivity, and the material blessings resulting from such, simply grows on trees all around us. For the taking. An attitude which never has been, is not now, and never will be sustainable.

As a famous President once said with a small addition from me, "ask not what your or our country can do for you - ask what you can do for our country". Personally, I chalk the greater part of an increasing lack of personal responsibility and cry for what amounts to more government dependence, up to a lack of the knowledge of the high moral teachings and standards of holy scripture.

2 Th 3:6 Now we command you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye withdraw yourselves from every brother that walketh disorderly, and not after the tradition which he received of us. 7 For yourselves know how ye ought to follow us: for we behaved not ourselves disorderly among you; 8 Neither did we eat any man's bread for nought; but wrought with labour and travail night and day, that we might not be chargeable to any of you: 9 Not because we have not power, but to make ourselves an ensample unto you to follow us. 10 For even when we were with you, this we commanded you, that if any would not work, neither should he eat. 11 For we hear that there are some which walk among you disorderly, working not at all, but are busybodies. 12 Now them that are such we command and exhort by our Lord Jesus Christ, that with quietness they work, and eat their own bread. 13 But ye, brethren, be not weary in well doing. 14 And if any man obey not our word by this epistle, note that man, and have no company with him, that he may be ashamed. 15 Yet count him not as an enemy, but admonish him as a brother.

Pro 6:6 Go to the ant, thou sluggard; consider her ways, and be wise: 7 Which having no guide, overseer, or ruler, 8 Provideth her meat in the summer, and gathereth her food in the harvest. 9 How long wilt thou sleep, O sluggard? when wilt thou arise out of thy sleep? 10 Yet a little sleep, a little slumber, a little folding of the hands to sleep: 11 So shall thy poverty come as one that travelleth, and thy want as an armed man.


This is not to say that we should not be liberal, as we most certainly should. Only to say and point out the unsustainable effects of an ever increasing number intending to live off of, and or continually take advantage of others liberality. Which is to eventually create the exact conditions of national poverty, so many come here to escape. There is no such a thing as a free ride. Someone, somewhere, is paying for all those who seek and practice such. Opportunity for success, and successful nations which produce such for multitudes do not grow on trees. Plucking all of the fruit from them, unto financial collapse, hurts everyone and destroys countless future opportunities for prosperous living. Enough said, as I am wondering off topic.
 
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Amo2

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The American revolution was civic, not religious; though Jefferson attempted to invoke "self-evident" truths in his defense.
There is no escaping the influence of religion upon politics. Even atheism and or secular humanism are religions. The assumptions and or presumptions of which, will unquestionably affect one's political views and or actions. To deny any connection between the many battles for freedom of religion leading up to and during the formation of this nation, is simply to choose to be ignorant of a great many facts. Nevertheless, we all have the freedom to choose to believe whatever we wish. Which exact freedom has been and still is contested in many places and times throughout history. This being a most basic foundation of freedom, so many others are based upon.

It is a small matter indeed, to provide many writings from our Founding Fathers, addressing their religious views which most obviously affected their politics. Which I would be happy to provide, should you be interested.
 
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