Jesus claimed He came to fulfill the Law, Did He?

Bob S said:

Did Jesus fail to fulfill what He came to do or did He keep His word and during His stay on this Earth bring an end to the Law? We have no qualms about His fulfilling and bringing to a final end the prophecies concerning Him. Why do some hesitate to believe He did the same for the Law?

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Even in his own day Jesus had a heard time getting people to see what The Law really is. In fact that did not see him fulfilling it, but breaking it. So it is quite natural that even today people don't get it.

SabbathBlessings said:

Not according to Paul. Walking in the flesh means not being subject to the law of God and is the condition of the lost.

Rom 8:7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be. 8 So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God.

Gal 5:19 Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, 20 idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, 21 envy, [f]murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.

Just as we are told at His Second coming

Revelation 22:14 Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city. 15 But outside are dogs and sorcerers (Breaking commandment #1 Exodus 20:3) and sexually immoral (breaking commandment #7 Exodus 20:14) and murderers (breaking commandment #6 Exodus 20:13) and idolaters (breaking commandment #2 Exodus 20:4-6), and whoever loves and practices a lie (breaking # 9 Exodus 20:16 or any of the commandments 1 John 2:4) Breaking one we break them all James 2:11-12 Exo 20:1-17 .

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You quote Romans 8:7 in vacuum, again. Here it is in context.

“For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set you free from the law of sin and of death. For what the Law could not do, weak as it was through the flesh, God did: sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and as an offering for sin, He condemned sin in the flesh, so that the requirement of the Law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. For those who are in accord with the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who are in accord with the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. For the mind set on the flesh is death, but the mind set on the Spirit is life and peace, because the mind set on the flesh is hostile toward God; for it does not subject itself to the law of God, for it is not even able to do so, and those who are in the flesh cannot please God. However, you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. But if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Him. If Christ is in you, though the body is dead because of sin, yet the spirit is alive because of righteousness.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭8‬:‭2‬-‭10‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

You look but you don’t see. The law was weak as through the flesh. Jesus came in the likeness of flesh and He condemn sin in the flesh. We walk in the spirit NOT in the law.

SabbathBlessings said:

You contradicted yourself, you said Christians are not under any Law and than quote Law we are to keep.

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Find my post where I said that. In fact in post 675 I asked you that very question

SabbathBlessings said:

Yes, the greatest commandments are the Ten Commandments summarized

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Nope. Once again you look but you don’t see. There are ONLY two commandments that Jesus gave us and those are what refers to IN John 14:15.

“One of the scribes came up and heard them arguing, and recognizing that He had answered them well, asked Him, “What commandment is the foremost of all?” Jesus answered, “The foremost is, ‘Hear, Israel! The Lord is our God, the Lord is one; and you shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind, and with all your strength.’ The second is this: ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ There is no other commandment greater than these.””
‭‭Mark‬ ‭12‬:‭28‬-‭31‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

SabbathBlessings said:

Romans 13:9 For the commandments, “You shall not commit adultery,” “You shall not murder,” “You shall not steal,” [a]“You shall not bear false witness,” “You shall not covet,” and if there is any other commandment, are all summed up in this saying, namely, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.”

Just as Jesus quoted OT right after the Ten Commandments was repeated the summary of the greatest commandments

Deut 6:5 You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your strength.


Only two groups at His Second Coming, not three. The ones who are without Law are not the ones who are blessed walking through the gates of heaven

Revelation 22:14 Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city. 15 But outside are dogs and sorcerers (Breaking commandment #1 Exodus 20:3) and sexually immoral (breaking commandment #7 Exodus 20:14) and murderers (breaking commandment #6 Exodus 20:13) and idolaters (breaking commandment #2 Exodus 20:4-6), and whoever loves and practices a lie (breaking # 9 Exodus 20:16 or any of the commandments 1 John 2:4) Breaking one we break them all James 2:11-12 Exo 20:1-17 .

Will we follow those beforehand we were told not to Heb 4:11 we all have the same choices

Jer 32: 22 You have given them this land, of which You swore to their fathers to give them—“a land flowing with milk and honey.” 23 And they came in and took possession of it, but they have not obeyed Your voice or walked in Your law. They have done nothing of all that You commanded them to do; therefore You have caused all this calamity to come upon them.

God's people keep God's commandments Rev 14:12, the Sabbath is a commandment of God, no different than murdering our brethern or not only worshipping God. James 2:11-12

If we reject God's laws now, would one really be happy in the new heaven and new earth keeping every Sabbath worshipping before the Lord for eternity. God's will in heaven is the same for us now and God is a God of love would never force anyone to keep something for eternity they object to it so much now. Its why I believe His judgments are of love.

Isa66:23 “For as the new heavens and the new earth
Which I will make shall remain before Me,” says the Lord,
“So shall your descendants and your name remain.
23 And it shall come to pass
That from one New Moon to another,
And from one Sabbath to another,
All flesh shall come to worship before Me,” says the Lord.

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The Sabbath and the law of Moses are not commanded to the Christian. I’ve already covered the above several times but you continue to preach error.

Peter states:
“Since this is the case, why are you putting God to the test by placing upon the neck of the disciples a yoke which neither our forefathers nor we have been able to bear? But we believe that we are saved through the grace of the Lord Jesus, in the same way as they also are.””
‭‭Acts‬ ‭15‬:‭10‬-‭11‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

Paul teaches:
“For all who are of works of the Law are under a curse; for it is written: “Cursed is everyone who does not abide by all the things written in the book of the Law, to do them.” Now, that no one is justified by the Law before God is evident; for, “the righteous one will live by faith.” However, the Law is not of faith; on the contrary, “The person who performs them will live by them.” Christ redeemed us from the curse of the Law, having become a curse for us—for it is written: “Cursed is everyone who hangs on a tree”— in order that in Christ Jesus the blessing of Abraham would come to the Gentiles, so that we would receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭3‬:‭10‬-‭14‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

If you want to be under the law then you better keep all of it as those under the law are cursed as Paul so clearly states. The rest of us will live by faith and walk in the Spirit.

tharkun73 said:

The terms 'fulfill' and 'abolish' are technical terms still used in orthodox Jewish communities/schools to this day. They simple mean to interpret correctly (fufill) or interpret incorrectly (abolish). Jesus teachings were largely targeted at the interpretaion of the Law of Moses. It wasn't about 'fulfilling' it to do away with it, it was about understanding and interpreting it correctly as God intended whether Jew or Gentile.

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What is Paul teaching in the following verses?

“For all who are of works of the Law are under a curse; for it is written: “Cursed is everyone who does not abide by all the things written in the book of the Law, to do them.” Now, that no one is justified by the Law before God is evident; for, “the righteous one will live by faith.” However, the Law is not of faith; on the contrary, “The person who performs them will live by them.” Christ redeemed us from the curse of the Law, having become a curse for us—for it is written: “Cursed is everyone who hangs on a tree”— in order that in Christ Jesus the blessing of Abraham would come to the Gentiles, so that we would receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭3‬:‭10‬-‭14‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

The use of redeem here should be clear.

Bob S said:

The only way you and others of your nature can justify and promote Sabbath keeping and all of the other Old Covenant laws you possibly believe have to be kept is by twisting the meaning of 2Cor 3:6-11, Gal 3:19, Eh 2:15, 1Jn 3:19-24, Col 2:16-17 and many more texts that tell us we are not subject to the Laws of the Old Covenant.

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That isn't true

Hentenza said:

You quote Romans 8:7 in vacuum, again. Here it is in context.

“For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set you free from the law of sin and of death. For what the Law could not do, weak as it was through the flesh, God did: sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and as an offering for sin, He condemned sin in the flesh, so that the requirement of the Law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. For those who are in accord with the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who are in accord with the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. For the mind set on the flesh is death, but the mind set on the Spirit is life and peace, because the mind set on the flesh is hostile toward God; for it does not subject itself to the law of God, for it is not even able to do so, and those who are in the flesh cannot please God. However, you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. But if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Him. If Christ is in you, though the body is dead because of sin, yet the spirit is alive because of righteousness.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭8‬:‭2‬-‭10‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬
You look but you don’t see. The law was weak as through the flesh. Jesus came in the likeness of flesh and He condemn sin in the flesh. We walk in the spirit NOT in the law.

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This is coming off Rom 7 and Paul is contrasting the law of sin (walking in the flesh) versus serving the law of God.

Romans 7: 22 For I delight in the law of God according to the inward man.
Vs, Rom 7:23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.

The law of sin is not being subject to the law of God as stated in verse 8:7-8

Sin is breaking God's law the Ten Commandments as Paul is clearly saying in verse 7

Rom 7:7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? Certainly not! On the contrary, I would not have known sin except through the law. For I would not have known covetousness unless the law had said, “You shall not covet.” Found only in the Ten Commandments Exo 20:17

Is Paul teaching us to sin and break God's law? Of course not.

If we are subjecting ourselves to the Spirit we would be keeping the law of God. Walking in the flesh is sinning and breaking God's law, this is what Paul is contrasting in Chapter 8.

Those who are walking in the Spirit are fulfilling (keeping the law)
Rom 8:4 that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.

And this is what walking in the flesh is
Rom 8: 7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be. 8 So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God.

I know everyone wants to claim they are walking in the Spirit but this is a very clear test and if we are arguing against keeping God's laws, I do not see it as a good sign.


SabbathBlessings said:
You contradicted yourself, you said Christians are not under any Law and than quote Law we are to keep.

Hentenza said:

Find my post where I said that. In fact in post 675 I asked you that very question

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here...

Hentenza said:

Jesus claimed He came to fulfill the Law, Did He? The Christian is NOT under the law period.

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Hentenza said:

Nope. Once again you look but you don’t see. There are ONLY two commandments that Jesus gave us and those are what refers to IN John 14:15.

“One of the scribes came up and heard them arguing, and recognizing that He had answered them well, asked Him, “What commandment is the foremost of all?” Jesus answered, “The foremost is, ‘Hear, Israel! The Lord is our God, the Lord is one; and you shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind, and with all your strength.’ The second is this: ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ There is no other commandment greater than these.””
‭‭Mark‬ ‭12‬:‭28‬-‭31‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

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Mat 24: 30 And you shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, with all your mind, and with all your strength.’ [d]This is the first commandment. 31 And the second, like it, is this: ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ There is no other commandment greater than these.”

So should I listen to you or to what Paul said.

Paul is quoting directly from the Ten Commandments in regards to laws that deal with our neighbor- to summarize the 2nd greatest commandment on how we love our neighbor.

Rom 13:9 For the commandments, “You shall not commit adultery,” “You shall not murder,” “You shall not steal,” [b]“You shall not bear false witness,” “You shall not covet,” and if there is any other commandment, are all summed up in this saying, namely, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.

The greatest commandment to love God come from this same unit. Jesus was quoted from Deut 6:5 when this was said right after repeating the Ten Commandments which we also see in His other teachings such as Mat 5:19-30 Mat 15:3-14 Mark 7:7-13 Mat 19:17-19 etc.

Deut 6:2 that you may fear the Lord your God, to keep all His statutes and His commandments which I command you, you and your son and your grandson, all the days of your life, and that your days may be prolonged. 3 Therefore hear, O Israel, and [a]be careful to observe it, that it may be well with you, and that you may multiply greatly as the Lord God of your fathers has promised you—‘a land flowing with milk and honey.’

4 “Hear, O Israel: [b]The Lord our God, the Lord is one! 5 You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your strength.

The Bible will interpret Itself, if, we we allow It to. But sadly, most people speak over the Bible instead of allowing the Bible to speak.

Heb 3:7 Therefore, as the Holy Spirit says:
“Today, if you will hear His voice,
8 Do not harden your hearts as in the rebellion,

Hentenza said:

The Sabbath and the law of Moses are not commanded to the Christian. I’ve already covered the above several times but you continue to preach error.

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Where is the Sabbath mentioned in the verse you quoted? Best not to add what's not there. God wants to give us rest Exo 20:8-11 Heb 4:9-10NIV blessings Isa 56:2 and sanctification Eze 20:12 because we can't sanctify ourselves Isa 66:17 and you call that a bondage? Sad teaching

Hentenza said:

Peter states:
“Since this is the case, why are you putting God to the test by placing upon the neck of the disciples a yoke which neither our forefathers nor we have been able to bear? But we believe that we are saved through the grace of the Lord Jesus, in the same way as they also are.””
‭‭Acts‬ ‭15‬:‭10‬-‭11‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

Acts 15:10-11 Since this is the case, why are you putting God to the test by placing upon the neck of the disciples a yoke which neither our forefathers nor we have been able to bear? But we believe that we are sav | New American Standard Bible - NAS

Since this is the case, why are you putting God to the test by placing upon the neck of the disciples a yoke which neither our forefathers nor we have been able to bear? But we believe that we are sav

bible.com

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Hentenza said:

Paul teaches:
“For all who are of works of the Law are under a curse; for it is written: “Cursed is everyone who does not abide by all the things written in the book of the Law, to do them.” Now, that no one is justified by the Law before God is evident; for, “the righteous one will live by faith.” However, the Law is not of faith; on the contrary, “The person who performs them will live by them.” Christ redeemed us from the curse of the Law, having become a curse for us—for it is written: “Cursed is everyone who hangs on a tree”— in order that in Christ Jesus the blessing of Abraham would come to the Gentiles, so that we would receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭3‬:‭10‬-‭14‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

Galatians 3:10-14 For all who are of works of the Law are under a curse; for it is written: “CURSED IS EVERYONE WHO DOES NOT ABIDE BY ALL THE THINGS WRITTEN IN THE BOOK OF THE LAW, TO DO THEM.” Now, that no one is just | New American Standard Bible -

For all who are of works of the Law are under a curse; for it is written: “CURSED IS EVERYONE WHO DOES NOT ABIDE BY ALL THE THINGS WRITTEN IN THE BOOK OF THE LAW, TO DO THEM.” Now, that no one is just

bible.com

If you want to be under the law then you better keep all of it as those under the law are cursed as Paul so clearly states. The rest of us will live by faith and walk in the Spirit.

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You have it backwards. The curse of the law is when we are not keeping God's law- the wages of sin is death Rom 6:23 Sin is breaking God's law 1 John 3:4 Rom 7:7 James 2:11-12. If we are keeping God's law through His Spirit John 14:15-18 1 John 3:24, there is no condemnation. If we don't than we are sinning and in rebellion and will be subject to judgement. James 2:11-12 Heb 10:26-30 Mat 5:19-30 Rev 11:18-19 Rev 22:14-

Would we have known what sin was if we hadn't read about putting tassels on our clothes?

Closing with a spiritual song
In its streets they wear sackcloth; on the rooftops and in the public squares they all wail, falling down weeping Isaiah 15

Would we have known what sin was if we hadn't read this?

Whoever sits on furniture on which the man with the discharge was sitting must wash his clothes and bathe with water, and he will be unclean until evening Leviticus 15

If not, then that commandment is still in effect

Blessed are those who keep His testimonies and seek Him with all their heart Psalm 119

I'm all in favor of what Paul says about how the law gives us knowledge of sin. However, the idea that those laws are still in effect doesn't hold up, it looks to me

More from Psalm 119 I will meditate on Your precepts and regard Your ways.
I will delight in Your statutes; I will not forget Your word

Looks held up according to the Word of God.


Rom 7:7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? Certainly not! On the contrary, I would not have known sin except through the law. For I would not have known covetousness unless the law had said, “You shall not covet.” Found only in the Ten Commandments Exo 20:17

Eph 5:5 For this you know, that no fornicator, unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and God.

Exo 32:16 Now the tablets were the work of God, and the writing was the writing of God engraved on the tablets.
Psa 119:7 The works of his hands are verity and judgment; all his commandments are sure.

'âman
aw-man'
A primitive root; properly to build up or support; to foster as a parent or nurse; figuratively to render (or be) firm or faithful, to trust or believe, to be permanent or quiet; morally to be true or certain; once (in Isa_30:21; by interchange for H541) to go to the right hand: - hence assurance, believe, bring up, establish, + fail, be faithful (of long continuance, stedfast, sure, surely, trusty, verified), nurse, (-ing father), (put), trust, turn to the right.


1 John 3:4 Whoever commits sin also commits lawlessness, and sin is lawlessness.
James 2:11 For He who said, “Do not commit adultery,” also said, “Do not murder.” Now if you do not commit adultery, but you do murder, you have become a transgressor of the law.12 So speak and so do as those who will be judged by the law of liberty.

Heb 10:26 26 For if we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, 27 but a certain fearful expectation of judgment, and fiery indignation which will devour the adversaries. 28 Anyone who has rejected Moses’ law dies without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. 29 Of how much worse punishment, do you suppose, will he be thought worthy who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, counted the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified a common thing, and insulted the Spirit of grace? 30 For we know Him who said, “Vengeance is Mine, I will repay,” [g]says the Lord. And again, “The Lord will judge His people.” 31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.


Rev 11:18 The nations were angry, and Your wrath has come,
And the time of the dead, that they should be judged,
And that You should reward Your servants the prophets and the saints, (Rev 14:12)
And those who fear Your name, (Rev 14:7 Ecc 12:13-14) small and great,
And should destroy those who destroy the earth.”
19 Then the temple of God was opened in heaven, and the ark of [i]His covenant was seen in His temple. And there were lightnings, noises, thunderings, an earthquake, and great hail.

Exo 25:16 And you shall put into the ark the Testimony which I will give you.
Exo 31:18 And when He had made an end of speaking with him on Mount Sinai, He gave Moses two tablets of the Testimony, tablets of stone, written with the finger of God.


Revelation 22:14 Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city. 15 But outside (Judgement) are dogs and sorcerers (Breaking commandment #1 Exodus 20:3) and sexually immoral (breaking commandment #7 Exodus 20:14) and murderers (breaking commandment #6 Exodus 20:13) and idolaters (breaking commandment #2 Exodus 20:4-6), and whoever loves and practices a lie (breaking # 9 Exodus 20:16 or any of them 1 John 2:4). The commandments are a unit of Ten Exodus 34:28 and you break one commandment quoting from the Ten we break them all. James 2:10-12

If a person follows that out, they will want to to put tassels on their clothes

And also not plant anything in the seventh year

In the seventh year there shall be a Sabbath of complete rest for the land—a Sabbath to the Lord. You are not to sow your field or prune your vineyard Leviticus 25

The part that doesn't hold up is that if a commandment gives us knowledge of sin, it must still be in effect today

Today, if you hear His voice,
do not harden your hearts as you did at Meribah, in the day at Massah in the wilderness Psalm 95

The argument always changes. First was said

I'm all in favor of what Paul says about how the law gives us knowledge of sin. However, the idea that those laws are still in effect doesn't hold up, it looks to me

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but when shown that's not true through Scripture

Rom 7:7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? Certainly not! On the contrary, I would not have known sin except through the law. For I would not have known covetousness unless the law had said, “You shall not covet.” Found only in the Ten Commandments Exo 20:17

Eph 5:5 For this you know, that no fornicator, unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and God.

Instead of correcting our error in teachings and practice as we are told 2 Tim 3:16 just goes on to the next bad augment

There is no tassels or yearly sabbaths feasts or 7 years sabbaths for land in the Ten Commandments. The tassels were a reminder to keep God's law, not break it.

Paul never quoted sin was keeping tassels or the yearly sabbaths, he quoted from the Ten Commandments Rom 7:7 as did Jesus to say what is sin Mat 5:19-30 as did James 2:11-12.

The law of Moses was given as a remedy for sin. The Ten Commandments is the description of sin.

When we do not allow the Bible to define itself, which it does, its not the road that leads us on the narrow path. Pro 3:5-6 But we have free will

2 Tim 3:7 Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.

In Romans 7, Paul is talking about the law. Not Just the Ten commandments.

I'm not aware of anything that says the commandment about tassels on your clothes ended. They are a reminder today as much as ever

Psalm 101 I will sing of Your loving devotion and justice; to You, O Lord, I will sing praises.
I will ponder the way that is blameless—when will You come to me? I will walk in my house with integrity of heart

What law did Paul only quote from to define what is sin?

Rom 7:7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law:

He tells us . . .

for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.

The Ten Commandments
Exo 20:17 Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor any thing that is thy neighbour's.

And we can find the rest of what God said James 2:11-12 in Exo 20:1-17 the Ten Commandments.

Sad so many people fight tooth and nail against the Testimony of God Exo 31:18

That's from The Ten commandments

Paul is referring to some other law here, though
For instance, a married woman is bound by law to her husband as long as he lives. But if her husband dies, she is released from the law of marriage.

Bless the Lord, O my soul; all that is within me, bless His holy name.
Bless the Lord, O my soul, and do not forget all His kind deeds Psalm 103

But if we want to say that every other law that is not the Ten Commandments does not give us knowledge of sin and therefore is not in effect,

Then the laws about tithing are no longer in effect, either

More from Psalm 103 The Lord executes righteousness and justice for all the oppressed.
He made known His ways to Moses, His deeds to the people of Israel.

Context. Not what he said sin was and it was used as an illustration. I would give the context if I felt it would help, but sadly, despite how much context is given, one just goes on to another bad argument

There are no laws that do not have a sub-law to the Ten Commandments. Tithing for example would be robing God and placing our money over God breaking the very first commandment.

Its why breaking one of the Ten Commandments we break them all as they are all interlinked

Psa 119:96 I have seen the consummation of all perfection, But Your commandment is exceedingly broad.

Eph 5:5 For this you know, that no fornicator, unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and God.
1 Sam 15:23 For rebellion is as the sin of [a]witchcraft, And stubbornness is as iniquity and idolatry. Because you have rejected the word of the Lord, He also has rejected you from being king.”
Col 3:5 5 Therefore put to death your members which are on the earth: fornication, uncleanness, passion, evil desire, and covetousness, which is idolatry.


I will just agree to disagree and all will get sorted out at Jesus soon return.

Sure, we can say tithing is a sub law of do not steal. But we wouldn't have known about the details, if that commandment about tithing had not been given.

So if things that teach us about sin are still in effect, then the laws about tithing are still in effect

To that place you are to bring your burnt offerings and sacrifices, your tithes and heave offerings, your vow offerings and freewill offerings, as well as the firstborn of your herds and flocks.
There, in the presence of the Lord your God, you and your households shall eat and rejoice in all you do, because the Lord your God has blessed you Deuteronomy 12

Romans 7 starts out Do you not know, brothers (for I am speaking to those who know the law), that the law has authority over a man only as long as he lives?
For instance, a married woman is bound by law to her husband as long as he lives. But if her husband dies, she is released from the law of marriage

The law does not have authority over us, we are not bound by it. That's because Jesus fulfilled it

He has sent redemption to His people; He has ordained His covenant forever; holy and awesome is His name Psalm 111

SabbathBlessings said:

This is coming off Rom 7 and Paul is contrasting the law of sin (walking in the flesh) versus serving the law of God.

Romans 7: 22 For I delight in the law of God according to the inward man.
Vs, Rom 7:23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.

The law of sin is not being subject to the law of God as stated in verse 8:7-8

Sin is breaking God's law the Ten Commandments as Paul is clearly saying in verse 7

Rom 7:7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? Certainly not! On the contrary, I would not have known sin except through the law. For I would not have known covetousness unless the law had said, “You shall not covet.” Found only in the Ten Commandments Exo 20:17

Is Paul teaching us to sin and break God's law? Of course not.

If we are subjecting ourselves to the Spirit we would be keeping the law of God. Walking in the flesh is sinning and breaking God's law, this is what Paul is contrasting in Chapter 8.

Those who are walking in the Spirit are fulfilling (keeping the law)
Rom 8:4 that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.

And this is what walking in the flesh is
Rom 8: 7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be. 8 So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God.

I know everyone wants to claim they are walking in the Spirit but this is a very clear test and if we are arguing against keeping God's laws, I do not see it as a good sign.

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We have already covered every verse that you continue to bring up either out of context or in error. Paul simply can’t teach in one place that we are under the law and then preach in others that we are not including calling the law cursed. I guess Paul is bipolar.

SabbathBlessings said:

SabbathBlessings said:
You contradicted yourself, you said Christians are not under any Law and than quote Law we are to keep.


here...

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You accused me of believing that we are not under ANY law when I said, clearly, that the Christian is not under THE law. Any and The are not the same word. Jesus gave us TWO commandments and redeemed us from the 613 commandments of the Jewish law.

SabbathBlessings said:

Mat 24: 30 And you shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, with all your mind, and with all your strength.’ [d]This is the first commandment. 31 And the second, like it, is this: ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ There is no other commandment greater than these.”

So should I listen to you or to what Paul said.

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Actually this is Matthew 22 not Paul. Paul never teaches that the Christian is under the law.

SabbathBlessings said:

Paul is quoting directly from the Ten Commandments in regards to laws that deal with our neighbor- to summarize the 2nd greatest commandment on how we love our neighbor.

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Is not Paul but Matthew.

““Teacher, which is the great commandment in the Law?” And He said to him, “ ‘You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind.’ This is the great and foremost commandment. The second is like it, ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ Upon these two commandments hang the whole Law and the Prophets.””
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭22‬:‭36‬-‭40‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

Also notice verse 40. These two commandments are now the whole law, not just a bit of it, but all of it.

SabbathBlessings said:

Rom 13:9 For the commandments, “You shall not commit adultery,” “You shall not murder,” “You shall not steal,” [b]“You shall not bear false witness,” “You shall not covet,” and if there is any other commandment, are all summed up in this saying, namely, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.

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Why do you continue to isolate verses?
“Owe nothing to anyone except to love one another; for the one who loves his neighbor has fulfilled the Law. For this, “You shall not commit adultery, You shall not murder, You shall not steal, You shall not covet,” and if there is any other commandment, it is summed up in this saying, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” Love does no wrong to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfillment of the Law.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭13‬:‭8‬-‭10‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

Pail is CLEARLY stating that love (for God and for your neighbor) has FULFILLED the Jewish law. All 10 commandments ARE SUMMED UP in these two commandments. It doesn’t get any clearer than this.

SabbathBlessings said:

You have it backwards. The curse of the law is when we are not keeping God's law- the wages of sin is death Rom 6:23 Sin is breaking God's law 1 John 3:4 Rom 7:7 James 2:11-12. If we are keeping God's law through His Spirit John 14:15-18 1 John 3:24, there is no condemnation. If we don't than we are sinning and in rebellion and will be subject to judgement. James 2:11-12 Heb 10:26-30 Mat 5:19-30 Rev 11:18-19 Rev 22:14-

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Once again. Let’s analyze Galatians 3.

“You foolish Galatians, who has bewitched you, before whose eyes Jesus Christ was publicly portrayed as crucified? This is the only thing I want to find out from you: did you receive the Spirit by works of the Law, or by hearing with faith? Are you so foolish? Having begun by the Spirit, are you now being perfected by the flesh? Did you suffer so many things in vain—if indeed it was in vain? So then, does He who provides you with the Spirit and works miracles among you, do it by works of the Law, or by hearing with faith?”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭3‬:‭1‬-‭5‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

Paul is scolding the Galatians for attempting to follow the law rather than living by faith. No one receives the spirit by works of the law. Jesus did not work miracles or provided them with the Spirit by works if the law.

“Just as Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness. Therefore, recognize that it is those who are of faith who are sons of Abraham. The Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel beforehand to Abraham, saying, “All the nations will be blessed in you.” So then, those who are of faith are blessed with Abraham, the believer.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭3‬:‭6‬-‭9‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

Abraham believed God. Abraham had faith not the works of the law.

“For all who are of works of the Law are under a curse; for it is written: “Cursed is everyone who does not abide by all the things written in the book of the Law, to do them.” Now, that no one is justified by the Law before God is evident; for, “the righteous one will live by faith.” However, the Law is not of faith; on the contrary, “The person who performs them will live by them.” Christ redeemed us from the curse of the Law, having become a curse for us—for it is written: “Cursed is everyone who hangs on a tree”— in order that in Christ Jesus the blessing of Abraham would come to the Gentiles, so that we would receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭3‬:‭10‬-‭14‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

Given the context, how do I have this backwards? Where does it say here that those cursed are the ones who do not keep the law? I don’t have it backwards and neither does Paul. You can’t twist this teaching to fit your error. All who are under the works of the law are under this curse. This is clear and plain language. It is consistent with the rest of Paul’s teachings in Romans.


“Is the Law then contrary to the promises of God? Far from it! For if a law had been given that was able to impart life, then righteousness would indeed have been based on law. But the Scripture has confined everyone under sin, so that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe. But before faith came, we were kept in custody under the Law, being confined for the faith that was destined to be revealed. Therefore the Law has become our guardian to lead us to Christ, so that we may be justified by faith. But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian. For you are all sons and daughters of God through faith in Christ Jesus. For all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus. And if you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham’s descendants, heirs according to promise.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭3‬:‭21‬-‭29‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

Until Christ came the law was our guardian. Christ came so we no longer need a guardian. The law never imparted life, only faith did, even before Christ.

You continue to teach error and attempting to put Christians under the bondage of the law. It doesn’t matter how many more out of context, isolated, miss interpreted verses you continue to post, they will never change Paul’s (and the rest of the scripture writers) teachings.

Hentenza said:

Paul simply can’t teach in one place that we are under the law and then preach in others that we are not...

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True! The clear teaching is that since we died to the law, we are no longer bound by it

Give thanks to the Lord; call upon His name; make known His deeds among the nations 1 Chronicles 16