Does the "reign in the influence of Israel" movement need a Tucker Carlson to be credible?

Pommer · Monday at 6:46 PM

FAITH-IN-HIM said:
It appears that you are unable to provide scriptural evidence supporting the claim that modern-day Israel differs from what is described in the Bible.

Oh, have the Israelis reinstituted the animal sacrifice demanded of them by their Deity?
I must have missed that important development.

FAITH-IN-HIM said:
Thank you for sharing your perspective; however, I do not find it compelling. As I mentioned, I am willing to reconsider my position if you can present relevant scripture.

The modern secular world isn’t always going to be reflected in the ancient writings, trying to wedge them in (to scripture) is a futile effort, most times.

FAITH-IN-HIM said:
Based on our discussion thus far, it seems you have not provided any. I will continue to place greater trust in the word of God than in human opinions.

The Bible, (AFAIK), doesn’t purport itself to be the be-all and end-all of human knowledge.

Pommer · Monday at 7:13 PM

ThatRobGuy said:
I've been mulling this over for the past few days...

The Gaza issue is still "hot & heavy" in public discourse.

I've long maintained that it's a strategic error to have the "reign in the influence of Israel" movement defined and dominated by a political faction that seems to think that glorifying/celebrating Islamic Fundamentalism is the proper anecdote to it. (the people out in the streets wearing keffiyehs and waiving Palestinian and Iranian flags around, while burning the American flag)

I noted in a previous thread that it's a mistake to cheerlead for either side in a conflict for which both are acting unethically (especially when the "who to cheer for" decision is being made for rather superficial reasons)

Should some on the left welcome the recent statements of Tucker Carlson on this issue? -- as he's reaching people that nobody from their own side could ever reach on this particular issue?

Just on that one interview he did with Ted Cruz, it seems to have had a measurable impact on the Republican base...

In an Economist/YouGov poll conducted not long after the interview, only 23% of Republicans think the U.S. should get involved in the conflict between Iran and Israel. (Down from 39% a few months prior to that interview)

I'd have to think that Tucker's grilling of Cruz played at least some part in that.

Are some progressives willing to accept the potential "help" on that issue, even if it comes from a source that may have contrasting viewpoints with them on other issues?

My inner pendant irks at the “reign” in the title…wouldn’t this better be “rein”?

ThatRobGuy · Monday at 7:22 PM

Pommer said:
My inner pendant irks at the “reign” in the title…wouldn’t this better be “rein”?

meh, I'll leave it, I'll chalk it up to a casualty of using voice-to-text

Hans Blaster · Monday at 7:54 PM

ThatRobGuy said:
No,

No? I was literally speaking of the narcissistic tendency in American discourse to ignore anything that isn't directly related to us, not just foreign human rights violations.

ThatRobGuy said:
they're more interested in anything that can be compartmentalized into the "oppressed vs. oppressor" narrative under the guise of it being a "human rights thing"

a "human rights thing" typically involves an oppressor, so I don't see what you think is special about that.

ThatRobGuy said:
Case in point:

Lebanon, Jordan, Egypt, Syria, and Iraq have all mistreated the Palestinians (including things like expulsion, subjecting them to poor living conditions, occupation, raiding their camps, starving them, restricting their movement, giving them sub-par rights in their own countries, etc... -- sound familiar with regards to some of the modern critiques we're hearing?)

Yet, the only times I see the Palestinian flags getting busted out for demonstrations here in the US, it when it's a conflict involving Israel (who's aligned with the US)

First we need to remind ourselves who exactly is a "Palestinian". The are the Arab peoples of Mandatory Palestine. By definition, they are not Egyptians, (Trans-)Jordanians, Lebanese, Iraqis, or Syrians, so the only reason there would be because (a) they were kicked out of Mandatory Palestine by Jewish/Israeli settlers, or (b) during the occupation of the Arab Palestinian portions by Arab nations between 1945 and 1967 when the Israelis occupied all that was left of Mandatory Palestine.

Given that this "only care when it is Israel causing harm" focus is a fairly recent thing (from my estimate only after the Oslo Accords took the PLO out of the terrorism business) we are well past any non-Israeli countries occupying Palestinian territory, it all comes down to the actions of Israel.

ThatRobGuy said:
It very much comes across as "activism of convenience", where the protesting only kicks in to full gear when there's a way they can make it about "their thing"

Just like anything else. I don't post here on every topic that even mildly interests me or even on all of the topics I think have moral equivalent to the ones I do comment on. That's just the way people are.

A2SG · Monday at 10:45 PM

Pommer said:
My inner pendant irks at the “reign” in the title…wouldn’t this better be “rein”?

Surely you meant your "inner pedant."

-- A2SG, my inner pedant had to speak up on that one....

Pommer · Tuesday at 2:33 AM

A2SG said:
Surely you meant your "inner pedant."

-- A2SG, my inner pedant had to speak up on that one....

I conform to Skitt’s Law whenever possible.

rjs330 · Tuesday at 2:53 PM

BCP1928 said:
When the West gets involved, then people in the West start protesting.

Yup and thats Robs point I believe. Its anti-west and not pro-palistinian.

BCP1928 · Tuesday at 3:02 PM

rjs330 said:
Yup and thats Robs point I believe. Its anti-west and not pro-palistinian.

Of course it must be to a considerable extent. It was "the West" who conquered Ottoman Palestine and pushed the indigenous inhabitants (including Jews and Christians) aside to erect a western-oriented secular state forcibly populated by European immigrants.

Kryten17 · Tuesday at 3:29 PM

Yeshua HaDerekh said:
Should we ask the hostages Hamas took? Oh, wait, most of them died...

EVERYONE in Gaza is a hostage. There are horrible people on both "sides". There are decent, innocent, vulnerable people on both "sides". Israelis and Gazans have suffered immensely. No nationality/race/religion/identity/etc should be held accountable and punished for the sins of anyone else remotely associated with their nationality/race/religion/identity/etc.

rjs330 · Tuesday at 3:45 PM

BCP1928 said:
Of course it must be to a considerable extent. It was "the West" who conquered Ottoman Palestine

And the Ottomans should conquered Palestine before that. Of course there were the Romans and the Babylonians etc etc. So what.

BCP1928 said:
pushed the indigenous inhabitants (including Jews and Christians) aside to erect a western-oriented secular state forcibly populated by European immigrants.

So what? Would it somehow been better if the Jews and Christians would have been pushed aside for another Islamic state?

The left hates the west by and large. Blames it for all the ills of the world and never misses an opportunity to protest against west. Its an anti-west group who want to end capitalism, and all western ideas. And they will jump onto bed with any other group that is also anti-west including radical Islamists.

Anytime the left see the west and non-west rhey ALWAYS side with the non-west. Becauae rhe west is seen as primarily white, capitalistic, European colonialism oppressors. Everyone else is a victim of them. You showed it yourself in your post.

The thing is if the left really was most concerned with the rights of women, lgbtq, the press, and religious freedom and the right to free speech they would be pro-Israel. But they aren't.

No the left is wildly agai st Israel and always have been. They are against anything west related and therefore must protest heavily against anything the west is involved in.

BCP1928 · Tuesday at 5:20 PM

rjs330 said:
And the Ottomans should conquered Palestine before that. Of course there were the Romans and the Babylonians etc etc. So what.

So what? Would it somehow been better if the Jews and Christians would have been pushed aside for another Islamic state?

The left hates the west by and large. Blames it for all the ills of the world and never misses an opportunity to protest against west. Its an anti-west group who want to end capitalism, and all western ideas. And they will jump onto bed with any other group that is also anti-west including radical Islamists.

Anytime the left see the west and non-west rhey ALWAYS side with the non-west. Becauae rhe west is seen as primarily white, capitalistic, European colonialism oppressors. Everyone else is a victim of them. You showed it yourself in your post.

The thing is if the left really was most concerned with the rights of women, lgbtq, the press, and religious freedom and the right to free speech they would be pro-Israel. But they aren't.

No the left is wildly agai st Israel and always have been. They are against anything west related and therefore must protest heavily against anything the west is involved in.

"The left" as you call them make up a big part of "the West" and have every right and duty to criticize what they don't like about it.

rjs330 · Tuesday at 7:59 PM

Kryten17 said:
EVERYONE in Gaza is a hostage. There are horrible people on both "sides". There are decent, innocent, vulnerable people on both "sides". Israelis and Gazans have suffered immensely. No nationality/race/religion/identity/etc should be held accountable and punished for the sins of anyone else remotely associated with their nationality/race/religion/identity/etc.

Yet that is what the Palistitinians have done to the Israelies for decades. The Israelies didn't fight back because they were Palestinians, but because they were attacked. They've been under attack since the beginning.

rjs330 · Tuesday at 8:18 PM

BCP1928 said:
"The left" as you call them make up a big part of "the West" and have every right and duty to criticize what they don't like about it.

I dont care. If they hate the west so badly go live somewhere else. It was rhe west that has provided them with this incredible life they have. Yet they hate it. They want to tear it down. Burn it down. They are in the West, but they want to destroy the west.

They shoild go live out of the west and somewhere else. But the truth is they cant. Because other places are too rotten to live in or wouldn't allow them to behave the way rhey do. Only the west affords them the right to behave the way they behave.

So yes they have the right because they live in the west. They are fools. And we shouldnt cater to fools.

BCP1928 · Tuesday at 8:32 PM

rjs330 said:
I dont care. If they hate the west so badly go live somewhere else. It was rhe west that has provided them with this incredible life they have. Yet they hate it. They want to tear it down. Burn it down. They are in the West, but they want to destroy the west.

They shoild go live out of the west and somewhere else. But the truth is they cant. Because other places are too rotten to live in or wouldn't allow them to behave the way rhey do. Only the west affords them the right to behave the way they behave.

So yes they have the right because they live in the west. They are fools. And we shouldnt cater to fools.

Your opinion is noted. No doubt they have a similar opinion of you. But they are not just living in the West, they are fully a part of the West and Western culture. They have as much ownership of the West as you do. Deal with it.

rjs330 · Tuesday at 8:55 PM

BCP1928 said:
Your opinion is noted. No doubt they have a similar opinion of you. But they are not just living in the West, they are fully a part of the West and Western culture. They have as much ownership of the West as you do. Deal with it.

I love the west. They dont want to be part of the west. I do. They dont want the western culture. They dont have ownership of tge west. They have rejected ownership. They dont want it. They are fools to want to get rid of something that was given them and the world so much.

If they hate it so much they should go somewhere where they dont. I heard Somalia is nice this time of year. Im sure tgey would be welcomed with open arms. Maybe the PLO would take them in. You know who else hates the west? Russia, China and N Korea. I guess they are in good company.

BCP1928 · Tuesday at 9:04 PM

rjs330 said:
I love the west. They dont want to be part of the west. I do. They dont want the western culture. They dont have ownership of tge west. They have rejected ownership. They dont want it. They are fools to want to get rid of something that was given them and the world so much.

If they hate it so much they should go somewhere where they dont. I heard Somalia is nice this time of year. Im sure tgey would be welcomed with open arms. Maybe the PLO would take them in. You know who else hates the west? Russia, China and N Korea. I guess they are in good company.

Well, if you want "the Left" to leave the country maybe you should do something about us. Bring a gun.

rjs330 · Tuesday at 9:51 PM

BCP1928 said:
Well, if you want "the Left" to leave the country maybe you should do something about us. Bring a gun.

Dude, you aren't left enough for the left. You are too much of a capitalist.

BCP1928 · Tuesday at 10:07 PM

rjs330 said:
Dude, you aren't left enough for the left.

Which means your "left"may be imaginary. AOC2028!

rjs330 · Tuesday at 10:43 PM

BCP1928 said:
Which means your "left"may be imaginary. AOC2028!

LOL, you know they aren't. The problem is you've hitched your wagon to that train. You might want to get out before its too late.

BCP1928 · Tuesday at 11:38 PM

rjs330 said:
LOL, you know they aren't. The problem is you've hitched your wagon to that train. You might want to get out before its too late.

I could always become a Catholic. They're part of "the Left" now, too. They don't recognize Israel as the fulfillment of God's promise to the Jews, they're critical of Netanyahuu's conduct of the war and they are even critical of our immigration policy. Oh, wait! AOC is a Catholic already. Darn. The problem is, that as destructive as her policies are to the Glorious Values of Western Civilisation, she and the other Berniecrats are the only players pushing for something that even resembles free market capitalism, an issue which I care more about than whether little boys sneak into little girl's bathrooms to ogle them or whether we can rid the country of pet-eating aliens.

Does the "reign in the influence of Israel" movement need a Tucker Carlson to be credible?

CoPacEtiC SkEpTic

CoPacEtiC SkEpTic

Part of the IT crowd

Hood was a loser.

Gumby

CoPacEtiC SkEpTic

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Similar threads