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How does extreme behaviour exist side by side with a spirit-filled ministry?

hopeforhappiness

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I have been reading about TB Joshua. It got me rather perplexed. Apparently, he didn't just have 'moral failings'. Don't we all? But there were miracles and conversion and church growth (along with all those controversies that always accompany such movements). In my boring, uncharismatic, mainstream traditional church wild, bizarre and bad things don't happen. But neither does growth or passion for the things of God.
We can adopt two extreme opinions (unnecessarily IMO) - one, those sexual and other predations and coercions are exaggerated or lies by hostile actors or two, the entire ministry was counterfeit or satanic. But do we need to do this?
I understand personally the temptation that as believers saved by grace our works good or bad should not affect our salvation. Our good deeds and inner renewal should be in response to the Work of Christ, who now calls us His friends. My Orthodox friends say that the more they grow in Christ, the more they are aware of the greatness of their worldliness and especially their pride - the original sin in the Garden of Eden.
Now that church leadership has been left behind in my retirement, and I know more about the private lives of my co-leaders after their deaths, I see how flawed they actually were, how often quite concerned for their own dignity and getting their own way. (I always knew that I was such a person and that held me back from from what I was capable of doing).
 

rocknanchor

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I have been reading about TB Joshua. It got me rather perplexed. Apparently, he didn't just have 'moral failings'. Don't we all? But there were miracles and conversion and church growth (along with all those controversies that always accompany such movements). In my boring, uncharismatic, mainstream traditional church wild, bizarre and bad things don't happen. But neither does growth or passion for the things of God.
We can adopt two extreme opinions (unnecessarily IMO) - one, those sexual and other predations and coercions are exaggerated or lies by hostile actors or two, the entire ministry was counterfeit or satanic. But do we need to do this?
I understand personally the temptation that as believers saved by grace our works good or bad should not affect our salvation. Our good deeds and inner renewal should be in response to the Work of Christ, who now calls us His friends. My Orthodox friends say that the more they grow in Christ, the more they are aware of the greatness of their worldliness and especially their pride - the original sin in the Garden of Eden.
Now that church leadership has been left behind in my retirement, and I know more about the private lives of my co-leaders after their deaths, I see how flawed they actually were, how often quite concerned for their own dignity and getting their own way. (I always knew that I was such a person and that held me back from from what I was capable of doing).
Beautiful! Well of course, if presently concurrent, the ‘side by side’ had better conclude at the more sensitive insight. Which brother’s banner leads a flaying flock to safety, to hold onto ‘’we all stumble’’, or, ‘’forget’’ it all and hold onto the good ‘’press’’ forward? If we have not yet secured His Heb. 2:18 aid in our resistance, or, confession of our faults to one another, or, have the Devil cast out, God still has the heart on watch, the ‘’press’’ lays at the root of life.
 
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rocknanchor

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I see how flawed they actually were, , ,(I always knew that I was such a person and that held me back from from what I was capable of doing).
Just as you said, who isn't? Every level of Christian spirituality has suffered powerlessly, setbacks of Satan (1Thess 2:18) just as they did of old (Prov. 24:16), but, what did Paul and the OT righteous both use to overcome (which you could have advised the weak reader here)?
 
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rocknanchor

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It got me rather perplexed.
Sorry if I contributed to that. It is rather unfortunate no living soul can relate to the very depth of the struggle. Thank God for those of you who have been spared. You know the war waged of flesh and Spirit. What you may not always know is the level of depletion which may or may not signal final loss of at best, departed friend-s (1Thessalonians 4:13).

But your enquiry was excellent and such a critical area, it isn't what I would have chosen to dismiss the outcome of. Noooo! It could have opened up the end detail towards life without (Job 13:15) cause.
 
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rocknanchor

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Thank God for those of you who have been spared.
Those who received His compassion and those who have found His mercy. How shall we number them? There is a predominate number.

Those who have been spared are in the majority (1 Corinthians 10:13).

Those we choose to suffer the consequences or somehow miss the opportunity (2 Corinthians 2:7).
 
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