Does the "reign in the influence of Israel" movement need a Tucker Carlson to be credible?

ralliann · Friday at 5:59 PM

Desk trauma said:
It’s quite relevant if one is calling them elected representatives when no such elections are held.

They are elected. and that still holds in their continued bold support. There is no need for an election to know that.

Desk trauma · Friday at 6:03 PM

ralliann said:
They are elected. and that still holds in their continued bold support.

Were elected, almost 20 years ago, then they disallowed any further elections after consolidating power and murdering much of their opposition.

ralliann said:
There is no need for an election to know that.

There is to claim they’re the elected representatives of Gaza.

ralliann · Friday at 6:09 PM

Desk trauma said:
Were elected, almost 20 years ago,

So what? I am not blind or deaf, nor am I stupid. They support them. I have heard them, have seen them. My eyes and my ears are not lying to me, nor others. It is not a mass hallucination

Desk trauma · Friday at 6:12 PM

ralliann said:
So what?

So they stopped having elections after that.

ralliann said:
I am not blind or deaf, nor am I stupid. They support them. I have heard them, have seen them. My eyes and my ears are not lying to me, nor others. It is not a mass hallucination

What hasn’t been heard or seen is an election in Gaza after hamas came to power.

ralliann · Friday at 6:55 PM

Desk trauma said:
So they stopped having elections after that.

So what? When and how they hold elections is up to them, not you.

Desk trauma said:
What hasn’t been heard or seen is an election in Gaza after hamas came to power.

Came into power is "ELECTED" to power.
It is up to them how often and even why elections are held. Not you or anyone else, but them.

Desk trauma · Friday at 7:12 PM

ralliann said:
So what?

So the claim that they’re are elected representatives is false as they don’t hold elections for the positions they hold.

JosephZ · Friday at 7:36 PM

ralliann said:
Came into power is "ELECTED" to power.

The election was two decades ago and at that time, the majority did not vote for Hamas. Not long after that election, Hamas forced its rule on the people of Gaza outside of the political process. They were not elected to power, they took Gaza by force.

ralliann said:
So what? I am not blind or deaf, nor am I stupid. They support them. I have heard them, have seen them. My eyes and my ears are not lying to me, nor others. It is not a mass hallucination

Palestinians in Gaza live in an environment where turning against Hamas could pose significant risks to their lives, livelihoods, and families. They allow Hamas to operate in Gaza mostly because they are afraid that if they refuse, they will be its next victims. Another reason is that most Palestinians in Gaza are too busy struggling to survive from day to day to concern themselves with Hamas. They have enough problems already.

Below is an article that does an great job in explaining why so many Palestinians voted for Hamas, their feelings towards both Hamas and Israel, and why they haven't been able to remove them from power.

Long before Hamas's murderous rampage in Israel on Oct. 7, the group made a name for itself with its ruthless takeover of Gaza in 2007.

Its calling card? Killing its political rivals execution style in the streets, in hospital shootouts, and by throwing them off the rooftops of high-rise buildings. Since then, arbitrary detention, torture and enforced disappearances has been a hallmark of the regime.

Yet now, some Palestinians are "self-silencing" how they really view Hamas − and what they reveal about living under the U.S. and European Union-designated terror group in the Gaza Strip.

68% − believed that they had no way to safely participate in peaceful protests against Hamas' rule.

"Basically (most Gazans) just want to be able to do their job and have enough money to spend time with their family,"

"Nobody in Gaza is thinking about Hamas. They are busy surviving," this Palestinian said.

"The most important thing now is not Hamas. It's that Israel stops killing us," said another.

Before the war, Israeli media published stories of Gazans who had fled the enclave because of threats they faced from Hamas for participating in protests, because they didn't support its approach to Israel or for challenging the way it spent financing from Qatar on rockets and tunnels rather than schools or other infrastructure.

"After Oct. 7 we all in Gaza have been (accused of being) Hamas supporters. In fact, I am not. And I will never be," said Tareq Hajjaj, a Gazan journalist, in rare public comments about Hamas.

Hajjaj said he knows many Gazans with strong feelings about Hamas who won't speak publicly about it.

'Self-silencing': For Palestinians, talking about Hamas comes with hazards

Israel has killed thousands of Palestinians in Gaza since it began its operation to root out Hamas after its attacks on Oct. 7. This is making it hard for Palestinians to talk about Hamas even if they don't support it.

www.usatoday.com

ralliann · Friday at 7:55 PM

Desk trauma said:
So the claim that they’re are elected representatives is false as they don’t hold elections for the positions they hold.

Are you writing Palestinian election law here. LOL

Desk trauma · Friday at 8:17 PM

ralliann said:
Are you writing Palestinian election law here. LOL

Dictatorships aren’t really into that kind of thing.

Yeshua HaDerekh · Saturday at 10:03 PM

Desk trauma said:
At full price like any other customer after subsidizing their development and funding the country in general. What a deal.

We buy things from and support Israel just like we do in other countries...

Yeshua HaDerekh · Saturday at 10:09 PM

ThatRobGuy said:
Right, my point was that it doesn't represent some sort of two-way partnership that would even be remotely close to symmetrical.

"We use some stuff that a citizen of country XYZ developed" isn't representative of the kind of partnership we're talking about.

We use some stuff that was made by residents of Italy, that doesn't mean we'd spend $30B per decade and unconditionally help the Italian government chase their enemies around the desert for 40 years.

What specific things has the government of Israel given the government of the US that would be a counterbalance to what the government of the US has given to the government of Israel?

As I noted, I'm not even suggesting denying weapons to Israel, my initial statement was that should buy that stuff from us with their own money.

When we develop something cool with our own R&D budget, we give it to them for free. When they develop something with the R&D money we give them, they make us pay retail.

Why are you picking on Israel...we do the same in other countries. BTW, how much money and weapons did Biden give Ukraine??? Other countries DO buy weapons from us.

eclipsenow · Sunday at 2:40 AM

ThatRobGuy said:
Because AIPAC has been effective in their lobbying.

I fact checked the Hitchens claim, it's legit, both in the numbers of slaves the Barbary Corsairs took, as well as their ambassadors justification for why they did it.

Barbary corsairs - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

In March 1786, Thomas Jefferson and John Adams went to London to negotiate with Tripoli's envoy, ambassador Sidi Haji Abdrahaman (or Sidi Haji Abdul Rahman Adja). When they enquired "concerning the ground of the pretensions to take slaves from, and make war upon, nations who had done them no injury", the ambassador replied:

While the quote might be accurate - it does not mean it is a justified reading of the Koran - which was my main point.

ThatRobGuy said:
I actually touched on this in another recent thread, I can dig up all of the posts or link their here if you're interested...but the Iranians actually saw more prosperity, greater social equality, the fastest growing middle class in the region, and more oil revenue from their oil and more personal freedoms under the Shah than they did under the predecessors. (net, of course... there were obviously some freedoms the Shah did restrict) Hence the reason during the 2017 and 2022 mass protests in Iran, the common chant was "Shah, Bless your soul".
(I also linked a piece by a Nobel Peace Prize winner who was the first Female judge in Iran - which happened under the Shah - who had it taken away by the Ayatollah, who notes that people were so obsessed with the "thrill of revolution" that they weren't thinking straight, and she apologized to the current generation for her generation's part in overthrowing the Shah to make way for the system they're stuck with now)

If you're interested, I can link the thread...

That may also be the case - but also does not explain why America helped overthrow the Iranian democracy - nor the fact that at the time the population had huge issues with being ruled by a monarchy after having experienced democracy. Which has parallels with the "No Kings" marches in the USA recently - but I digress.

eclipsenow · Sunday at 2:58 AM

ralliann said:
Here's the problem. The actions of the Israeli government was self defense. They protested all over the place, for the destruction of Israel. Doing so while Hamas was still holding hostages. American as well as Israeli hostages. They are still not giving them up.

And I would agree that the causes of the war fall under "Just War" theory.
The conduct since does not!
They're committing war crimes - and it's time for actual freedom-loving democratic nations to tell Israel to stop!

eclipsenow · Sunday at 3:10 AM

FAITH-IN-HIM said:
It is not intended as trolling, but rather to demonstrate what is perceived as hypocrisy within the international community.

For 20 years, while Hamas controlled and oppressed the Palestinian people—impoverishing its people and launching rockets at Isreal—the world remained silent. There were no protests in London or on college campuses, and few expressed concern for the Palestinian people.

Suddenly, the world now cares about the Palestinian people.

The outcry today is nothing but crocodile tears.

What a fascinating revisionist history! It's hard to run an economy when you've been illegally displaced from your land, half your grandparents slaughtered by Israeli settlers, and then you're shoved into a confined area that is basically the world's largest open-air jail.

The restrictions on movement and goods in Gaza imposed by Israel date to the early 1990s.[1] After Hamas took over in 2007, Israel significantly intensified existing movement restrictions and imposed a complete blockade on the movement of goods and people in and out of the Gaza Strip.[2] In the same year, Egypt closed the Rafah border crossing.[3] The blockade's stated aims are to prevent the smuggling of weapons into Gaza and exert economic pressure on Hamas.[1] Human rights groups have called the blockade illegal and a form of collective punishment, as it restricts the flow of essential goods, contributes to economic hardship, and limits Gazans' freedom of movement.[2][4] The land, sea, and air blockade isolated Gaza from the rest of the occupied Palestinian territory and the world.[5] The blockade and its effects have led to the territory being called an "open-air prison".[6][7]

Blockade of the Gaza Strip - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Remember that Palestinians - whether Christians, Jews, or Moslems - all lived together relatively peacefully until Zionism conducted mass immigration programs to flood Palestine with Jews. Then when the critical mass was reached, the war and the pogroms stated, and the rest is history. The west turns a blind eye to it because after America broke Iran's democracy and installed the Shah and then that backfired into today's militant theocracy, they needed a new friend in the middle-east.

Basically the world has cared about the Palestinian people during this time.
There have been protests, campaigns, letters, all sorts of reporting on this issue for decades.

Today's protests are because the sheer scale of destruction has accelerated. While there might indeed be other worse human catastrophes looming in South Sudan and other areas of the planet - Israel's apartheid regime apparently has our backing and direct support! So I ask you? Do you support apartheid regimes? Did you condemn South Africa's white apartheid against blacks? Then what about Jewish apartheid against Arabs and Moslems? Why do so many Christian Americans support a racist concept anyway - a "Jewish state"? Why is Zionism so popular when it is inherently a racist concept at its very core? There is now a thing called Israel. I must accept history - and that this state exists. However I do not accept that it has to be a Jewish state. I support separation of church and state for a reason, and that applies to Christians, Jews and Moslems.

DaisyDay · Sunday at 8:18 AM

Always in His Presence said:
The U.S.–Israel alliance brings a wide range of strategic, economic, and technological benefits to the United States. Here’s a breakdown of how this partnership serves American interests:

️ Strategic & Military Cooperation

Intelligence Sharing: Israel provides high-value intelligence on Middle Eastern threats, including terrorism and weapons proliferation.

Defense Innovation: Joint development of systems like the Iron Dome and David’s Sling enhances U.S. missile defense capabilities.

Military Testing Ground: Israel’s battlefield experience offers insights into modern warfare, helping the U.S. refine its own tactics and technologies.

Forward Presence: Israel acts as a strategic outpost in a volatile region, allowing the U.S. to project power without deploying large numbers of troops.

Economic & Technological Gains

Tech Collaboration: Israel’s thriving startup ecosystem—second only to Silicon Valley—drives innovation in cybersecurity, AI, and medical tech.

Job Creation: Bilateral trade and Israeli investment in the U.S. support over 250,000 American jobs, especially in states like California and Massachusetts.

Clean Energy & Sustainability: Israeli advances in water purification, solar energy, and agriculture contribute to U.S. environmental goals.

Cultural & Ideological Alignment

Shared Democratic Values: Both nations emphasize pluralism, rule of law, and free elections, reinforcing mutual trust and cooperation.

Public Support: Strong backing from American Jewish and Evangelical communities bolsters bipartisan political support for Israel.

Diplomatic Leverage

Regional Stability: Israel’s peace treaties and growing ties with Arab states (e.g., Abraham Accords) help stabilize the Middle East.

Counterterrorism: Israel’s experience in countering extremist groups complements U.S. efforts in global anti-terror operations.

Shouldn't your source for copy&pasting be attributed? This is posted as though it were your own word which would be plagiarizing.

Always in His Presence · Sunday at 8:22 AM

DaisyDay said:
Shouldn't your source for copy&pasting be attributed? This is posted as though it were your own word which would be plagiarizing.

How does one link AI?

Not copy writes, so not against forum rules.

Sorry I proved you wrong, but the truth is the truth.

JosephZ · Sunday at 8:39 AM

Always in His Presence said:
How does one link AI?

Not copy writes, so not against forum rules.

An AI response should still be cited even if forum rules don't require it. No link is necessary, you just need to state that the content was created using AI, and what platform was used.

DaisyDay · Sunday at 8:50 AM

Always in His Presence said:
How does one link AI?

Why would you want to? I didn't say that you should link to your source, but attribute it. That is to say, cite your source, say where you got it instead of posting it as though it were your own words. This is pretty basic.

Always in His Presence said:
Not copy writes, so not against forum rules.

Plagiarizing is against honesty rules which are entirely voluntary. What do you mean "copy writes"? That was clearly copy-pasted with the formatting included. Using others' work as your own without attribution, whether it is copyrighted or not, is still plagiary.

Always in His Presence said:
Sorry I proved you wrong, but the truth is the truth.

Wrong about what? ^_^

You did not attribute your source - truth is the truth. I didn't claim your plagiarizing was against forum rules - truth is the truth. You proved yourself wrong - truth is the truth.

ralliann · Sunday at 8:54 AM

eclipsenow said:
And I would agree that the causes of the war fall under "Just War" theory.
The conduct since does not!
They're committing war crimes - and it's time for actual freedom-loving democratic nations to tell Israel to stop!

Hamas is still holding hostages, still endangering their people, by refusing to give them up and their tactics of warfare to use them as shields. There are no war crimes on Israels part. Just Hamas for refusing to give up on theirs.

JosephZ · Sunday at 9:33 AM

ralliann said:
Hamas is still holding hostages, still endangering their people, by refusing to give them up and their tactics of warfare to use them as shields.

Hamas is a terrorist group, that's to be expected.

ralliann said:
There are no war crimes on Israels part.

A Massive Database of Evidence, Compiled by a Historian, Documents Israel's War Crimes in Gaza

A woman with a child is shot while waving a white flag ■ Starving girls are crushed to death in line for bread ■ A cuffed 62-year-old man is run over, evidently by a tank ■ An aerial strike targets people trying to help a wounded boy ■ A database of thousands of videos, photos, testimonies, reports and investigations documents the horrors committed by Israel in Gaza

There are links to texts and other kinds of testimony describing acts attributed to IDF soldiers who were seen "shooting civilians waving white flags, abuse of individuals, captives and corpses, gleefully damaging or destroying houses, various structures and institutions, religious sites and looting personal belongings, as well as randomly firing their weapons, shooting local animals, destroying private property, burning books within libraries, defacing Palestinian and Islamic symbols (including burning Qurans and turning mosques into dining spaces)."

Link to the database: "Bearing Witness to the Israel-Gaza War"

Does the "reign in the influence of Israel" movement need a Tucker Carlson to be credible?

christian

The pickles are up to something

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The pickles are up to something

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The pickles are up to something

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The pickles are up to something

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Men dream of truth, find it then cant live with it

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Scripture is God's word, Science is God's works

Scripture is God's word, Science is God's works

I Did Nothing Wrong!! ~~Team Deep State

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I Did Nothing Wrong!! ~~Team Deep State

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