An Evil Spirit from the Lord

public hermit · Thursday at 7:12 AM

"Now the spirit of the Lord departed from Saul, and an evil spirit from the Lord tormented him. And Saul's servants said to him, “See now, an evil spirit from God is tormenting you. Let our lord now command the servants who attend you to look for someone who is skillful in playing the lyre; and when the evil spirit from God is upon you, he will play it, and you will feel better." 1 Sam. 16:14-16

Enter David, who plays the lyre and makes Saul feel better.

What is this evil spirit from the Lord that departs (or relents from tormenting Saul) when good music is played?

Gregory Thompson · Thursday at 7:36 AM

The type that feeds on the mind.

public hermit · Thursday at 7:44 AM

Gregory Thompson said:
The type that feeds on the mind.

Like melancholy or depression?

d taylor · Thursday at 7:47 AM

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My guess would be a demon, as demons were use to authenticate that Jesus was the promised Messiah. When Jesus would heal and cast out demons from people.

Maria Billingsley · Thursday at 8:25 AM

public hermit said:
"Now the spirit of the Lord departed from Saul, and an evil spirit from the Lord tormented him. And Saul's servants said to him, “See now, an evil spirit from God is tormenting you. Let our lord now command the servants who attend you to look for someone who is skillful in playing the lyre; and when the evil spirit from God is upon you, he will play it, and you will feel better." 1 Sam. 16:14-16

Enter David, who plays the lyre and makes Saul feel better.

What is this evil spirit from the Lord that departs (or relents from tormenting Saul) when good music is played?

My understanding...

God has power over demons, not in the way as to be in cahoots, but in a way that He allows them to test and torment. Just as Jesus Christ of Nazareth was tested and tormented in the desert, so was Saul tested and tormented. Demons work through temptation, deception and guilt.
Blessings

BPPLEE · Thursday at 8:29 AM

public hermit said:
"Now the spirit of the Lord departed from Saul, and an evil spirit from the Lord tormented him. And Saul's servants said to him, “See now, an evil spirit from God is tormenting you. Let our lord now command the servants who attend you to look for someone who is skillful in playing the lyre; and when the evil spirit from God is upon you, he will play it, and you will feel better." 1 Sam. 16:14-16

Enter David, who plays the lyre and makes Saul feel better.

What is this evil spirit from the Lord that departs (or relents from tormenting Saul) when good music is played?

I have often wondered about this myself. It seems strange that it was an evil spirit "from the Lord "

d taylor · Thursday at 8:30 AM

BPPLEE said:
I have often wondered about this myself. It seems strange that it was an evil spirit "from the Lord "

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That means God allowed the spirit to do what it did

BPPLEE · Thursday at 8:33 AM

d taylor said:
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That means God allowed the spirit to do what it did

Yes, I have considered that

public hermit · Thursday at 8:36 AM

BPPLEE said:
I have often wondered about this myself. It seems strange that it was an evil spirit "from the Lord "

I agree. That's one question I have. I also wonder what kind of "spirit" is appeased by music. It sounds like he's "down in the dumps" and music makes him feel better. Is that a spirit? Is every time we're in a bad mood a result of some spirit? What about our own responsibility for our own mental/emotional states? You know what I mean?

BPPLEE · Thursday at 8:39 AM

B. Saul’s distressing spirit.

1. (1 Samuel 16:14) Saul’s distressing spirit troubles him.

But the Spirit of the LORD departed from Saul, and a distressing spirit from the LORD troubled him.

a. The Spirit of the LORD departed from Saul: In 1 Samuel 16:13, the Spirit of the LORD came upon David from that day forward. As the Holy Spirit came upon David, a distressing spirit came to Saul and troubled him.

b. A distressing spirit from the LORD troubled him: If God is all-good, why did He send a distressing spirit upon Saul? There are two senses in which God may send something. He may send something in the active sense or He may send something in a passive sense. Actively, God never initiates or performs evil; He is the Father of lights, with whom there is no variation or shadow of turning (James 1:17). Passively, God may withdraw the hand of His protection and therefore allow evil to come, without being the source of the evil itself.

i. This is indicated by what happened with Saul. First, the Spirit of the LORD departed from Saul. This meant Saul lost his spiritual “protection” and covering. So, Satan was more than ready to send a distressing spirit to fill the void in Saul.

ii. This is why the continual presence of the Holy Spirit for all Christians is such a comfort. We don’t have to fear that God will take the Holy Spirit from us (Romans 8:9-11, 1 Corinthians 6:19-20).

c. From the LORD: Perhaps this was to judge Saul’s past wickedness and rebellion against the Holy Spirit’s guidance. This may be an example of God giving Saul over to his sin.

i. Saul clearly had the Spirit of the LORD upon him at one time (1 Samuel 10:10). As he was proud and rebellious against God, Saul resisted the Holy Spirit. He told the Holy Spirit “No” and “Go away” so many times that God finally gave Saul what he wanted. But Saul never realized the price to pay when the Spirit of the LORD departed from him. Saul thought he would be freer to do his thing without the Spirit of the LORD“bugging” him. He didn’t realize he would be in even more bondage to a distressing spirit that troubled him.

ii. Even in this state Saul could repent. He was not past the place of repentance and restoration. It was up to him to receive God’s correction and respond with a tender, repentant heart before the LORD.

d. A distressing spirit from the LORD troubled him: Today, Saul would probably be diagnosed as mentally ill. Yet his problem was spiritual in nature, not mental or psychological.

i. There are many people in mental hospitals today that are really suffering from spiritual problems. It is certainly wrong to assume that every case of mental distress is spiritual because chemical imbalances and physiological problems are also real in this fallen world. Even so, there are certainly some that need liberation from a distressing spirit and may never find it in our modern mental health system.

From Blue Letter Bible commentary

Gregory Thompson · Thursday at 8:45 AM

public hermit said:
Like melancholy or depression?

It's more severe, the way the person is affected varied based on personality and resolve.

BPPLEE · Thursday at 8:45 AM

public hermit said:
I agree. That's one question I have. I also wonder what kind of "spirit" is appeased by music. It sounds like he's "down in the dumps" and music makes him feel better. Is that a spirit? Is every time we're in a bad mood a result of some spirit? What about our own responsibility for our own mental/emotional states? You know what I mean?

I have a book, Calm Moments for Anxious Days by Max Lucado . I read a section when I feel anxious or down and it relieves me

public hermit · Thursday at 8:46 AM

BPPLEE said:
B. Saul’s distressing spirit.
1. (1 Samuel 16:14) Saul’s distressing spirit troubles him.

But the Spirit of the LORD departed from Saul, and a distressing spirit from the LORD troubled him.

a. The Spirit of the LORD departed from Saul: In 1 Samuel 16:13, the Spirit of the LORD came upon David from that day forward. As the Holy Spirit came upon David, a distressing spirit came to Saul and troubled him.

b. A distressing spirit from the LORD troubled him: If God is all-good, why did He send a distressing spirit upon Saul? There are two senses in which God may send something. He may send something in the active sense or He may send something in a passive sense. Actively, God never initiates or performs evil; He is the Father of lights, with whom there is no variation or shadow of turning (James 1:17). Passively, God may withdraw the hand of His protection and therefore allow evil to come, without being the source of the evil itself.

i. This is indicated by what happened with Saul. First, the Spirit of the LORD departed from Saul. This meant Saul lost his spiritual “protection” and covering. So, Satan was more than ready to send a distressing spirit to fill the void in Saul.

ii. This is why the continual presence of the Holy Spirit for all Christians is such a comfort. We don’t have to fear that God will take the Holy Spirit from us (Romans 8:9-11, 1 Corinthians 6:19-20).

c. From the LORD: Perhaps this was to judge Saul’s past wickedness and rebellion against the Holy Spirit’s guidance. This may be an example of God giving Saul over to his sin.

i. Saul clearly had the Spirit of the LORD upon him at one time (1 Samuel 10:10). As he was proud and rebellious against God, Saul resisted the Holy Spirit. He told the Holy Spirit “No” and “Go away” so many times that God finally gave Saul what he wanted. But Saul never realized the price to pay when the Spirit of the LORD departed from him. Saul thought he would be freer to do his thing without the Spirit of the LORD“bugging” him. He didn’t realize he would be in even more bondage to a distressing spirit that troubled him.

ii. Even in this state Saul could repent. He was not past the place of repentance and restoration. It was up to him to receive God’s correction and respond with a tender, repentant heart before the LORD.

d. A distressing spirit from the LORD troubled him: Today, Saul would probably be diagnosed as mentally ill. Yet his problem was spiritual in nature, not mental or psychological.

i. There are many people in mental hospitals today that are really suffering from spiritual problems. It is certainly wrong to assume that every case of mental distress is spiritual because chemical imbalances and physiological problems are also real in this fallen world. Even so, there are certainly some that need liberation from a distressing spirit and may never find it in our modern mental health system.

From Blue Letter Bible commentary

I'm not sure we can go so far as to say this was a mental health issue. He is calmed by music. It could be a mental health issue, or it could just be a mood. It could be that Saul was just unhappy because things weren't going his way, and music made him feel better. Would that be a spiritual issue? It could be. But it could be a spiritual issue that affects someone simply because of self-centeredness or whatever.

Here's a possibility: Saul was down in the dumps because of Saul. The use of "spirit" is simply a way of saying he was moody or down. In those days, "spirits" might be attributed to all kinds of things. God didn't do anything to Saul. Saul was being Saul, and music made him feel better.

2PhiloVoid · Thursday at 9:16 AM

public hermit said:
"Now the spirit of the Lord departed from Saul, and an evil spirit from the Lord tormented him. And Saul's servants said to him, “See now, an evil spirit from God is tormenting you. Let our lord now command the servants who attend you to look for someone who is skillful in playing the lyre; and when the evil spirit from God is upon you, he will play it, and you will feel better." 1 Sam. 16:14-16

Enter David, who plays the lyre and makes Saul feel better.

What is this evil spirit from the Lord that departs (or relents from tormenting Saul) when good music is played?

I'm not sure anyone these days would really want to know what it is and thereby be able to explain it, let alone believe it when they have come to understand it.

public hermit · Thursday at 9:22 AM

2PhiloVoid said:
I'm not sure anyone these days would really want to know what it is and thereby be able to explain it, let alone believe it when they have come to understand it.

That's cryptic. What does that mean, and how do you know?

2PhiloVoid · Thursday at 11:27 AM

public hermit said:
That's cryptic. What does that mean, and how do you know?

It's not meant to be cryptic, but only that if other similar passages in the Old Testament have any overlay with this passage you've cited, it seems like there are 'spirits' (demons?) sent by God to oppress those who egregiously disobey Him, among other sanctioned actions.

Moreover, being that this passage focuses on King Saul's specific experiences, I think we have to keep this in mind as an interpretive focal point. Saul was apparently an obstinate individual and he didn't make wise choices.

How this sort of situation plays out in a person's life, perhaps appearing as bouts of depression or closed opportunities catalyzing personal frustrations in life, I can't say that I know. I don't think there's an interpretive formula to apply when reading this passage since the literary details are so scant in the entirety of the Old Testament. I do think St. Paul was perhaps alluding to this sort of thing, however, when he admonished the Corinthian church to expel the sinful man from among themselves and "hand him over to Satan."

Mark Quayle · Thursday at 12:05 PM

Maria Billingsley said:
My understanding...

God has power over demons, not in the way as to be in cahoots, but in a way that He allows them to test and torment. Just as Jesus Christ of Nazareth was tested and tormented in the desert, so was Saul tested and tormented. Demons work through temptation, deception and guilt.
Blessings

Judging by the text, and by reason (in which God being creator of all that is, INTENDED all that is), I'd say that God more than simply "allowed" this 'evil' spirit to do as it did, but INTENDED it to do so.

Our whole modern understanding of who/what God is, and of language, needs a considerable cleaning and upgrade. It has become corrupted, not to mention the corruption of our worldview.

public hermit · Thursday at 12:12 PM

Mark Quayle said:
Judging by the text, and by reason (in which God being creator of all that is, INTENDED all that is), I'd say that God more than simply "allowed" this 'evil' spirit to do as it did, but INTENDED it to do so.

Our whole modern understanding of who/what God is, and of language, needs a considerable cleaning and upgrade. It has become corrupted, not to mention the corruption of our worldview.

Does God intend all the evil that occurs in the world? By "intend" I mean our usual meaning of the word, i.e., the desire or want behind an action.

RDKirk · Thursday at 12:16 PM

public hermit said:
I'm not sure we can go so far as to say this was a mental health issue. He is calmed by music. It could be a mental health issue, or it could just be a mood. It could be that Saul was just unhappy because things weren't going his way, and music made him feel better. Would that be a spiritual issue? It could be. But it could be a spiritual issue that affects someone simply because of self-centeredness or whatever.

Here's a possibility: Saul was down in the dumps because of Saul. The use of "spirit" is simply a way of saying he was moody or down. In those days, "spirits" might be attributed to all kinds of things. God didn't do anything to Saul. Saul was being Saul, and music made him feel better.

It may not matter, practically speaking.

For instance, it's become known that when a person is mentally and/or physically stressed, the body produces hormones to prepare for "fight or flight." But if that person, instead of either fleeing or fighting, sits down and eats a donut, that releases a different set of hormones that should only be released when the person is relaxed. The resulting hormonal "collision" eventually results in a chronic metabolic imbalance.

No evil spirits in the Biblical sense are involved, but the effective response is the same. Medical science says that instead of eating in response to stress, the person should skip eating for a time and meditate. Jesus said when fighting our demons we need to pray and fast.

When we realize that a person should be relaxed while eating, then the 23rd Psalm gains another layer of meaning.

2PhiloVoid · Thursday at 12:24 PM

Mark Quayle said:
Judging by the text, and by reason (in which God being creator of all that is, INTENDED all that is), I'd say that God more than simply "allowed" this 'evil' spirit to do as it did, but INTENDED it to do so.

Our whole modern understanding of who/what God is, and of language, needs a considerable cleaning and upgrade. It has become corrupted, not to mention the corruption of our worldview.

No, I think in Saul's case, an evil spirit was "sent" upon him. He wasn't merely being moody. But our modern political sensibilities won't "allow" us to read it that way. Personally, I don't like the idea that God may do this, but I try to put myself into the place of the Ancient Near Eastern mindset and grapple with it the best I can.

I recognize that sometimes, God shows Himself to be "STRONG," even if my recognition of this aspect of His Being leaves me befuddled and shaking my head.

An Evil Spirit from the Lord

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B. Saul’s distressing spirit.​

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B. Saul’s distressing spirit.​

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B. Saul’s distressing spirit.

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