If universalism is true then why did God send His Son to die for our sins?

Jipsah · Jul 5, 2025

Hentenza said:
. I’m arguing that universalism deviates from God’s will because belief is no longer necessary for forgiveness and consequently salvation.

What if everyone believes? What if everyone Sees The Light? What if our Lord's sacrifice really was sufficient to pay the price of all our sins? What if God's stated will really is, as we all pray, done on earth as it is in Heaven? Is that all too far fetched? Is the idea that God Wins too much to consider? I don't think so.

Hentenza · Jul 5, 2025

Jipsah said:
You apparently lost the thread there. You contend gthat there's noneing that says that anyone can be saved after death. True. It is also true that there's also nothing in Scripture says that no one can't be saved after death. The Bible says nothing either way, and your claim that silence suports your position is simply nonsense.. Sorry, no worky

Actually it works fine. So no verse that says that there is salvation post mortem BUT a plethora of verses that teach that faith is needed for salvation. You must be alive to have faith. You must have missed that,

Jipsah said:
Try to keep up.

I’ll keep up when I can figure out what you wrote,

Jipsah said:
Just what it says.

Here's something more to the point:
1 Timothy 2:3For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;
4Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.
5For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
6Who gave himself a ransom for ALL, to be testified in due time

Aw you think you gave an aha moment. Keep reading past verse 6. You guys are good at stopping at only the verses that agree with you.

“Therefore I want the men in every place to pray, lifting up holy hands, without anger and dispute.”
‭‭1 Timothy‬ ‭2‬:‭8‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

1 Timothy 2:8 Therefore I want the men in every place to pray, lifting up holy hands, without anger and dispute. | New American Standard Bible - NASB (NASB2020) | Download The Bible App Now

Therefore I want the men in every place to pray, lifting up holy hands, without anger and dispute.

bible.com

You see the therefore? Do you think all men will pray and lift their holy hands? Even the ones that don’t believe?

Jipsah said:
)All emphasis obviously mine) THis is where the Damnationist "Poor God, There's Just Nothing He Can Do" comes into play. "Yeah", they say, "that's God Will, but He's helpless to pull i off because His dimwitted creatures just thwart Him at every turn. Being omnipotent just isn't all it's cracked up to be, because the even the dumbest cluck He created can easily set His will at nought. That summarizes the Damnationist position, doesn't it?

Nope. Let’s work on these verses that do not agree with your position.

“Jesus said to them, “I am the bread of life; the one who comes to Me will not be hungry, and the one who believes in Me will never be thirsty. But I said to you that you have indeed seen Me, and yet you do not believe. Everything that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I certainly will not cast out. For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me. And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that of everything that He has given Me I will lose nothing, but will raise it up on the last day. For this is the will of My Father, that everyone who sees the Son and believes in Him will have eternal life, and I Myself will raise him up on the last day.””
‭‭John‬ ‭6‬:‭35‬-‭40‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

John 6:39-40 And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that of everything that He has given Me I will lose nothing, but will raise it up on the last day. For this is the will of My Father, that everyone who sees th | New American Standard Bible - NASB

And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that of everything that He has given Me I will lose nothing, but will raise it up on the last day. For this is the will of My Father, that everyone who sees th

bible.com

What happens to those that do not come to him? Do you think those that He has not given him will rise up in the last day?

Jipsah said:
Fearmonger? Hmmmm.. remind me again which of us it is who believes that most of the people God has ever created will be roasted screaming over a slow fore for all eternity? Hint: It ain't me. I think that's grotesquely false. I believe that the Will of God will be done, and of. Ifm as Scripture tells us (see above) is for "all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth." You say His will can't be done. I say God's will can't be stopped. You're the fearmonger here. I believe that God will save everyone: A) because He wants them to be, and B) because nothing can can hinder His will.

I don’t believe that most of the people ever created will roast. That is you fear mongering. You just proved it by your statement. Can you tell me how many people will in fact be roasted?

Jipsah said:
BTW, I don't know what the thing about "having it both ways" means. I see the Damnationist view as arrant rubbish. There;s nothing about it I want to "have". You paint God as a merciless, pitiless, malevolent despot Who will grant those of His creatures with eternal life just so they can be tortured forever. Simply ghastly, and at odds with Scripture. I believe that God either saves a, or causes them never to have been.

Your opinion is yours but judging an infinite, all powerful God is not your purview.

BelieveItOarKnot · Jul 8, 2025

Devils within mankind are those who killed the spotless sinless human Lamb, God in flesh

And in doing so, they sealed their fate in eternal hell

He revealed them. They were drawn to react in resistance, in a God Orchestrated Pre-Planned manner that God Himself Intended

God essentially planned His Own Death in flesh, having zero intentions to spend eternity in a dust body

Just as He has zero intentions of leaving any of us stranded in similar fashions

So yes, the devil's do end up killing us all

And we all move on, the wiser for it

Aaron112 · Jul 8, 2025

Free2bHeretical4Him! said:
Perhaps you might take the time to share some Scripture to support your stance on what is or is not permitted?

The false gospel is never permitted, and is not to be discussed with those who bring the false gospel according to all Scripture.

Free2bHeretical4Him! · Jul 9, 2025

Aaron112 said:
The false gospel is never permitted, and is not to be discussed with those who bring the false gospel according to all Scripture.

And yet here you are in the “Controversial Theology“ forum, commenting on the “false gospel” of which you say you are forbidden.
So, since you are here, please state plainly and concisely for me what is the “true gospel.” I affirm the below, I just happen to believe He accomplished this for ALL and ALL is what He shall have. Now, please point out for me the “false gospel“ you state I am advocating to my eternal demise.

”For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received: that Christ died for our sins in accordance with the Scriptures, that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day in accordance with the Scriptures,“
‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭15‬:‭3‬-‭4‬ ‭ESV‬‬

1 Corinthians 15:3-4 For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received: that Christ died for our sins in accordance with the Scriptures, that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day in accordan | English Standard Version R

For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received: that Christ died for our sins in accordance with the Scriptures, that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day in accordan

bible.com

blessings,

GaryMac · Jul 10, 2025

Hentenza said:
One of the most famous verses known by Christians, agnostics, and even atheists is John 3:16.

““For God so loved the world, that He gave His only Son, so that everyone who believes in Him will not perish, but have eternal life.”
‭‭John‬ ‭3‬:‭16‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

John 3:16 “For God so loved the world, that He gave His only Son, so that everyone who believes in Him will not perish, but have eternal life. | New American Standard Bible - NASB (NASB2020) | Download The Bible App Now

“For God so loved the world, that He gave His only Son, so that everyone who believes in Him will not perish, but have eternal life.

bible.com

If universalism is true and all will be saved “after an age” then why did God sent His Son to die for the sins of those who believe? Why would the Bible spend so much ink teaching us that faith is necessary for salvation?

“But God, being rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, even when we were dead in our wrongdoings, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), and raised us up with Him, and seated us with Him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, so that in the ages to come He might show the boundless riches of His grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. For by grace you have been saved through faith; and this is not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not a result of works, so that no one may boast.”
‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭2‬:‭4‬-‭9‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

Ephesians 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and this is not of yourselves, it is the gift of God | New American Standard Bible - NASB (NASB2020) | Download The Bible App Now

For by grace you have been saved through faith; and this is not of yourselves, it is the gift of God

bible.com

Here is who Jesus said he was in God and we must have the same if we are to be of Christ and have the same anointing from God ourselves to walk as He walks in His same light as Jesus did, and be perfect even as our Father in heaven is perfect, Matt 5:48.

One has to ask if you are the same as Jesus said he was in God as Jesus said he was in God below.

John 12:49: For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak.

John 12:44-45. who believes in me, does not believe in me but in Him who sent me. He who sees me sees Him who sent me.

John 7:16. Jesus answered them, and said, My doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me.

John 5 :17 I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me.

John 5:19. “Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise.”

John 6:38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me

Joihn 17:2-21, the kingdom of God doesnt come withj observation, it is withn you

John 16:23. And in that day ye shall ask me nothing. Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall ask the Father in my name, he will give it you.

John 14:16. And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; 17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

Matt 11:25. At that time Jesus declared, “I praise You, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because You have hidden these things from the wise and learned, and revealed them to little children.

John 17:22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:

GaryMac · Jul 10, 2025

Hentenza said:
Why? I’m going to be saved no matter what I do.

Gods salvation is the same thing as Jesus received from God in Matt 3:16 be in you with that same renewing of mind that Jesus received from God Himself, born again with that same renewing of mind that Jesus received where all of who God really is and all of His heaven was opened in that man the same as He does in us all who are saved from our own doctrines and to become like Him to know this difference.

GaryMac · Jul 10, 2025

Free2bHeretical4Him! said:
And yet here you are in the “Controversial Theology“ forum, commenting on the “false gospel” of which you say you are forbidden.
So, since you are here, please state plainly and concisely for me what is the “true gospel.” I affirm the below, I just happen to believe He accomplished this for ALL and ALL is what He shall have. Now, please point out for me the “false gospel“ you state I am advocating to my eternal demise.

”For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received: that Christ died for our sins in accordance with the Scriptures, that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day in accordance with the Scriptures,“
‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭15‬:‭3‬-‭4‬ ‭ESV‬‬

1 Corinthians 15:3-4 For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received: that Christ died for our sins in accordance with the Scriptures, that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day in accordan | English Standard Version R

For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received: that Christ died for our sins in accordance with the Scriptures, that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day in accordan

bible.com

blessings,

Yes, God does accomplish in us all who will receive Him as Jesus did in Matt 3:16 where God Himself opened up in Jesus who He is and all of His heaven in Jesus, and does the very same in us all who will let Him. Jesus described his renewed mind as born again and ye must have that same renewing as well. .

But Christ didn't die, cannot die, Christ means Gods anointed one and either you are anointed of god as Jesus was or you are not which would be Christ in you. Jesus died but Gods anointing didn't for all who has received from God that same anointing as Jesus received in Matt 3:16 are His Christs.

Christ comes from the Greek word χριστός (chrīstós), meaning "anointed one". The word is derived from the Greek verb χρίω (chrī́ō), meaning "to anoint." In the Greek Septuagint, χριστός was a semantic loan used to translate the Hebrew מָשִׁיחַ (Mašíaḥ, messiah), meaning "[one who is] anointed".

Paul came up with that term Christ at Antioch, before that in the old we who are anointed of Gods same Spirit of mind were referred to as Christos, saints.

The term saint is derived from the Latin word sanctus, meaning "holy" or "consecrated." This is, in turn, a direct translation of the Greek word "άγιος" (hagios), which also means "holy." In its original scriptural usage it simply means "holy" or "sanctified."

And sanctified simply means to make holy; set apart as sacred; consecrate

The Jews then gathered around Him, and were saying to Him, “How long will you keep us in suspense? If you are the Christ, tell us plainly.” 25 Jesus answered them, “I told you, and you do not believe; the works that I do in My Father’s name, these testify of Me.

What is ironic is when Jesus became anointed of God by God Himself in Matt 3:16, the very ones that Jesus taught in the jewish belief system as rabbi, and was reverend of his knowledge of their laws for a god, even from a young age, are the very ones who had him crucified for blaspheme after God anointed him by the Spirit that God is and reveals Himself in Jesus and all of His heaven in that man. We who are born again with that same renewing of mind, Jesus said we must be born again with that same renewing.

GaryMac · Jul 10, 2025

Hentenza said:
In Catholic teachings those that go to purgatory are those who die in God’s grace and just need additional cleansing. No unbelivers are included.

Jesus wasn't catholic, he wasn't Mormon, he wasn't baptist, he want pentecostal, AOG, nor COC nor any other man made doctrines for a belief -- he was a child of God, His son , just as we all are who are born of God and has the same from the same God as he received from Him in Matt 3:16 no different at all.

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If universalism is true then why did God send His Son to die for our sins?

Jipsah

Blood Drinker

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Hentenza

I will fear no evil for You are with me

1 Timothy 2:8 Therefore I want the men in every place to pray, lifting up holy hands, without anger and dispute. | New American Standard Bible - NASB (NASB2020) | Download The Bible App Now

John 6:39-40 And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that of everything that He has given Me I will lose nothing, but will raise it up on the last day. For this is the will of My Father, that everyone who sees th | New American Standard Bible - NASB

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BelieveItOarKnot

Rom 11:32-God bound everyone to disobedience so...

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Aaron112

Well-Known Member

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Free2bHeretical4Him!

I’m a dirt nap and resurrection from glory!

1 Corinthians 15:3-4 For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received: that Christ died for our sins in accordance with the Scriptures, that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day in accordan | English Standard Version R

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GaryMac

Active Member

John 3:16 “For God so loved the world, that He gave His only Son, so that everyone who believes in Him will not perish, but have eternal life. | New American Standard Bible - NASB (NASB2020) | Download The Bible App Now

Ephesians 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and this is not of yourselves, it is the gift of God | New American Standard Bible - NASB (NASB2020) | Download The Bible App Now

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GaryMac

Active Member

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GaryMac

Active Member

1 Corinthians 15:3-4 For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received: that Christ died for our sins in accordance with the Scriptures, that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day in accordan | English Standard Version R

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GaryMac

Active Member

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