Thank you for your detailed reply.
No problem.
Thank you for replying to me.
You raise many points, but they largely miss the heart of what I am saying.
This isn't about whether we can do good deeds at Christmas. Nor is it about whether God can use imperfect circumstances for His glory. It’s about what God has authorized for His people in worship and what He has not.
That's the main problem, and difference between us.
Yes, in the OT God told the Israelites to celebrate certain festivals. These are mostly all connected with the Exodus - God made it possible for the nation to leave Egypt, guided them on their journey, parted the Red Sea, and gave them his word at Sinai. He also provided for them in the wilderness. So he instituted feast days so that they would remember him and what he had done for them.
Animals sacrifices and how to approach God to say, "sorry", "thank you" etc, were laid down in the law.
I don't believe this means they were unable to worship at other times - for example, Miriam and Deborah sang songs of praise to God after victory in battles and Hannah sang a hymn of praise to God when she finally had a child. The Psalms were hymns of praise, intercessions or prayers in which they told God exactly how they felt. God gave David etc the gift of poetry. We are not told that he commanded people to use Psalms as expressions of worship, yet they did. It was Mordecai, not God, who instituted an annual celebration to remind them of how God had, through Esther, saved them from destruction. As far as I know this feast, Purim, is still celebrated today.
So even in the OT people worshipped God without being "authorised" to do so.
In the NT God came to earth and everything changed.
Whereas they had believed that if they looked upon God they would die; in Jesus, people were able to see, touch, listen and talk to God.
Whereas they had needed 10 men to form a synagogue to be able to worship, Jesus said "where 2 or 3 are gathered, I am there".
Though they still went to the Temple to offer sacrifices and keep the feasts, Jesus prophesied that the Temple would one day be destroyed.
Though the Jews believed God "lived" in the Holy of Holies, Jesus told his disciples that after he went away God's Spirit would come to them and live IN them.
Jesus did not tell his disciples they were not allowed to worship him on the mountain, before the Great Commission - they just did so.
I don't believe that we cannot worship God or remember certain important, and meaningful, events like his birth and resurrection, unless he has specifically told us that we can.
You are correct that God did not explicitly command Christians to celebrate Christ’s birth annually. That is exactly the point: worship practices are not to be invented according to human preference, even if the underlying event is biblical.
So Mordecai the Jew sinned when he told the nation that they should celebrate on certain days and remember how God had saved them? Esther 9:19-22.
The New Testament gives us clear examples of what the early church commemorated together: the Lord’s death (1 Corinthians 11:26), His resurrection (Acts 20:7), baptisms, prayer, the apostles’ doctrine, and fellowship (Acts 2:42). No annual celebration of Christ’s birth was instituted.
Like I said, I don't see that as a problem.
We don't know that they didn't celebrate other events - like Pentecost, 1 Corinthians 16:8.
When you say, "So?" in response to the lack of biblical command, it reveals a critical difference in how we approach worship.
I am concerned not with whether something seems good to us, but whether it is authorized by God.
I know. I'm saying that many people have worshipped God, and his presence in their lives, without being "authorised" to do so.
God is not prescriptive; I believe he delights in the praise and worship of his people.
Cain’s offering seemed good to him, but God rejected it (Genesis 4:3–5). Nadab and Abihu thought they were offering something to the Lord, but it was “strange fire” not commanded, and they were judged (Leviticus 10:1–2). Before you dismiss these as Old Testament examples only, consider 2 Timothy 3:16–17, which states that "All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness." This affirms that even Old Testament passages remain instructive for us today.
No, the 1 Timothy passage says "all Scripture is profitable .... "; not "every word and practice of Scripture must be regarded as a command."
Even within the NT, practices changed. In Acts 15 James wrote to unbelievers that they should not eat food offered to idols. By 1 Corinthians 8 Paul was saying that food could not separate them from God and that if they wanted to eat food offered to idols they could do so, as an idol meant nothing - provided this did not cause anyone else to lose faith, 1 Corinthians 8:7-9. He said something similar in Romans 14 - also talking about those who regarded certain days as being special.
The principle is consistent throughout Scripture: what is not commanded in worship is forbidden.
Like I said, where does it say that the use of Psalms was commanded in worship?
Where does it say that people were commanded to sing spontaneous hymns of praise?
Where are we told that they had "liturgy" of any kind?
Where are we told that we may use PowerPoint in worship?
The early church broke bread daily - where does it say that only the Apostles were authorised to do this?
Where does it say that "breaking bread" should become "communion" - a church service where the elements may only be given by an ordained member of the clergy? Where is "ordination" commanded in the NT?
Where is it commanded that church services should have a certain number of hymns, prayers, Scripture readings and a sermon given by one person while everyone else listens in silence?
You also argued that Christians aren't worshipping Christmas trees or Santa Claus. That’s not the point either.
Given that you have been saying that Christmas is a "worldly" festival which produces "bad fruit"; given that the vast majority of advertising, and merchandise, feature Father Christmas while the church teaches that Jesus is the reason for the season, I would have thought it was very much the point.
The church is proclaiming a different way.
You mentioned that Christians should be light in the darkness. I agree. But Scripture says we shine by being separate from the world
If we tell people that Christmas is all about Jesus - and especially if we say that we celebrate it differently - we ARE being separate to the world.
As for Matthew 15, while you rightly note the Pharisees were guilty of elevating tradition over God’s commands, the broader principle remains: worship based on human tradition rather than God’s Word is vain.
Jesus didn't say that tradition was wrong and he was not talking about worship.
The Pharisees were actually teaching people they could break God's commands - in this case, the command to honour their parents. They were almost teaching people a way of getting around God's command - "if you set money aside to help your parents, dedicate it to God instead". It may have sounded good, but the commandment was to honour their father and mother.
As there is no command "you must not celebrate Christmas", we are not breaking it by doing so.
Regarding the Magi: The Greek term μάγοι (magoi) in Matthew 2:1 has traditionally been translated as "wise men" in the King James Version, a rendering that has been in use for centuries. While the term "Magi" is a transliteration of the Greek, in contemporary usage, it can evoke associations with magicians, which does not accurately reflect the nature of these individuals. In Greek, magoi can be used to describe different kinds of people, including magicians, astrologers, or wise men, depending entirely on the context. So context determines its usage. In the context of Matthew’s Gospel, the magoi are clearly depicted as learned men from the East who recognized the significance of Jesus’ birth and came to worship Him, guided by a star. Their actions are portrayed positively, without any indication of deceit, trickery, or sorcery. Therefore, the translation "wise men" aptly conveys their role and character in the nativity narrative, preserving the meaning intended by the passage.
Now you're missing the point.
I wasn't arguing about the meaning of the word, nor the profession of the men - and I didn't mention magic. Studying the stars was forbidden by the Jews and therefore was probably regarded as a pagan custom. The men were also foreigners; Gentiles and therefore unclean.
Yet God led these unclean people, who practised pagan customs, to his Son. He didn't reject their worship.
Warning against unauthorized worship practices is not judging hearts inappropriately; it is contending for the faith (Jude 1:3) and urging careful obedience to God’s revealed will.
But that a practice, or form of worship, has to be "authorised" before it is valid, is your belief and interpretation.
If someone chooses to celebrate Christ's incarnation, remembering and celebrating God's greatest gift to us, I don't believe God is going to be cross, offended or say, "did I say you could do that?"
In the end, this isn’t about refusing to rejoice over Christ’s incarnation. We can certainly do that in our own time without any holiday. It’s about seeking to worship God in spirit and in truth, as He commands, not by blending worldly traditions with His holy worship.
The "worldly traditions" of Christmas celebrate and promote Father Christmas. The Church promotes Jesus.
"Worldly traditions" say that Santa only gives presents to those who are good, (even if no parent actually ever means that.) The Church says that we can never be good enough to earn God's love and grace.
"Worldly traditions" say that Christmas is one day, once a year The Church says that the Word becoming flesh changed our world; that because of the Incarnation, we can know that God understands us, that he is with us every day.
The angels said this was Good News for all people; why should we not proclaim their message and Good Tidings?
Its kind of like the Chosen TV series. They turn fact into fiction and people love it.
Never watched it.
I don't want fictitious holidays that do not exist in the Bible.
Fine - no one's forcing you to have them, nor to go against your beliefs.
That doesn't mean that no Christian should celebrate Christmas.
The moment you open that door, the church can add even more fiction or tradition to suit their fancy.
The facts of the incarnation are not fiction; they are Scriptural.
The only objection you seem to have is that there is no verse where God says "you can, or must, celebrate the birth of my Son."
Because God hasn't said "yes, you can do it", you believe we can't/mustn't. That doesn't mean that IS the case, only that you believe that it is.
I disagree, but you absolutely must do what you believe to be right.
And so will we.
