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The shrewdly drawn-up big ugly bill...

7thKeeper

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You said they have no voice in the matter. They do. But even if they didn't, who should instead of who does? Who should the decision making in regard to Medicaid eligibility be left up to?
The matter is the requirements, such as the changes in the bill being talked about being made to those. You wrote that doctors had a say in that, but they don't. Reading comprehension.
 
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7thKeeper

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Everyone gets whatever they want?
See? Moving those goalposts there my friend. Did anyone say everyone gets what they want? Why, as I do reread these posts, no, no one did. Cute attempt though.

Edit: though now that I think about it, it's more of a strawman.
 
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ozso

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The “work requirement” seems odd.
You can qualify if you work, but be sure not to take a job that pays so much that it disqualifies you financially.

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An income bracket shouldn't be applied to welfare eligibility? That's an interesting concept.
 
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SimplyMe

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It is now past midnight on the East Coast, and the House voting started 3 hours ago. Currently, there are 5 Republican Nay votes, and they can't have more than 3 if the bill is going to pass, as well as 8 who have not voted who will all need to vote Yea. It will be interesting to see how long Speaker Johnson keeps voting open and if he can get those that haven't voted and those that voted Nay to vote Yea.
 
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dogs4thewin

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They're not throwing people off Medicaid. They're tightening loose requirements. In other words those who don't really qualify for Medicaid aren't going to get it any longer.
thank you they are throwing you off ONLY if you do not meet reasonable requirements and/or are not here legally
 
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RocksInMyHead

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dogs4thewin

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They are changing the rules in order to throw people off, no matter how you slice it.
Yes, but the people they are "throwing off are not meeting perfectly reasonable rules. It would be one thing if they were throwing people off who needed it through no fault of their own disabled, elderly those type people it is another thing to kick people off who will not even TRY to meet basic work requirements or to tighten up the rules to ENSURE that only people here legally receive it. People can say all day long that people here illegally do not receive it, but ANYONE who is here illegally who for whatever reason did manage to get on needs to be kicked off.
 
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dogs4thewin

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Define "reasonable requirements." How are these determined?

People not in the country legally are already ineligible for Medicaid.
Reasonable requirements meaning those who CAN work do work/volunteer or go to school at LEAST half-time suit me if it were full time though it is not Any time you are benefiting directly from a government needs based program so snap, medicaid section 8, SSI NOT SSDI it is the government's business how you are using that money/services. I WILL say that even if you are on SSDI it is the government's business jpw much you are able to EARN from working but not therwise. However, SSI/SSDI is a topic for another thread.
 
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dogs4thewin

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It is now past midnight on the East Coast, and the House voting started 3 hours ago. Currently, there are 5 Republican Nay votes, and they can't have more than 3 if the bill is going to pass, as well as 8 who have not voted who will all need to vote Yea. It will be interesting to see how long Speaker Johnson keeps voting open and if he can get those that haven't voted and those that voted Nay to vote Yea.
Tomorrow is Trump's deadline it will be interesting to see what will happen if the Republicans cannot meet it.
 
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RocksInMyHead

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Reasonable requirements meaning those who CAN work do work/volunteer or go to school at LEAST half-time suit me if it were full time though it is not
Why? Incidentally, someone working full-time would likely exceed the income restrictions for Medicaid.

And, more importantly, how will you determine who "can" work? How will you verify that they are, in fact, working? How much will the bureaucracy required to do that cost? And how many people will be dropped because the increased paperwork is too much of a burden? Factually speaking this was a real issue with states that have implemented similar requirements in the past, so I don't want to hear that it's not going to happen.

What I'm getting at here is that, oftentimes, the cost of the bureaucracy and paperwork required to ensure that the "wrong" people aren't getting benefits can exceed the cost savings they bring about. And increasing the amount of red tape that users have to wade through means that people who do meet the qualifications are more likely to be dropped just because of the increase in the number of hoops they have to jump through in order to actually receive those benefits. That's also a bad thing.
Any time you are benefiting directly from a government needs based program so snap, medicaid section 8, SSI NOT SSDI it is the government's business how you are using that money/services.
Of course - that's why all Medicaid claims are subject to review. I'm not sure what that has to do with whether or not people should get benefits in the first place though.
 
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dogs4thewin

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Why? Incidentally, someone working full-time would likely exceed the income restrictions for Medicaid.

And, more importantly, how will you determine who "can" work? How will you verify that they are, in fact, working? How much will the bureaucracy required to do that cost? And how many people will be dropped because the increased paperwork is too much of a burden? Factually speaking this was a real issue with states that have implemented similar requirements in the past, so I don't want to hear that it's not going to happen.

What I'm getting at here is that, oftentimes, the cost of the bureaucracy and paperwork required to ensure that the "wrong" people aren't getting benefits can exceed the cost savings they bring about. And increasing the amount of red tape that users have to wade through means that people who do meet the qualifications are more likely to be dropped just because of the increase in the number of hoops they have to jump through in order to actually receive those benefits. That's also a bad thing.

Of course - that's why all Medicaid claims are subject to review. I'm not sure what that has to do with whether or not people should get benefits in the first place though.
Well, if the person is able bodied, mentally stable and has no dependants then that person can work. If the person does have dependants then I guess you look at factors about the dependants and any other factors Moreover,, in some states Medicaid is not worth taking ayway if I aam a doctor Medicare makes more sense to take that is just fact may be part of why when an elderly/disabled person has both MEDICARE covers 4/5 ( and I know because I have looked it up to determined whether it was worth fighting as someone who is on both.
 
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RocksInMyHead

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Well, if the person is able bodied, mentally stable and has no dependants then that person can work. If the person does have dependants then I guess you look at factors about the dependants and any other factors
Right. Again, that requires a significant amount of bureaucracy to manage. You need to have doctors to confirm that a person is able-bodied and mentally stable (and the visits to make those determinations must be paid for somehow), you need to have inspectors to spot check those doctors for fraud, you need admin staff to process the paperwork, you need data storage to hold onto it, and so on and so forth. The more requirements you add in order to receive benefits, the more it costs to administer those requirements, and, again, the more people slip through the cracks who should qualify, but can't get the paperwork done for whatever reason. If you want to cut costs by implementing restrictions, you need to show that the actual cost savings are greater than the costs of implementing the cost-saving measures - and that you're not going to end up killing a significant number of people by dropping their coverage unnecessarily.
 
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dogs4thewin

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Right. Again, that requires a significant amount of bureaucracy to manage. You need to have doctors to confirm that a person is able-bodied and mentally stable (and the visits to make those determinations must be paid for somehow), you need to have inspectors to spot check those doctors for fraud, you need admin staff to process the paperwork, you need data storage to hold onto it, and so on and so forth. The more requirements you add in order to receive benefits, the more it costs to administer those requirements, and, again, the more people slip through the cracks who should qualify, but can't get the paperwork done for whatever reason. If you want to cut costs by implementing restrictions, you need to show that the actual cost savings are greater than the costs of implementing the cost-saving measures - and that you're not going to end up killing a significant number of people by dropping their coverage unnecessarily.
or you can put it on the PERSON to prove it. In other words, kinda of like how in a criminal trial it is on the state to prove the person guilty, but for disability it is on the PERSON to prove they are disabled to get benefits, so in that way it could be that a person is assumed to not qualify until THEY prove otherwise. Maybe even have them pay out of pocket keep records if you win you get your money back if you lose you do not.
 
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Pommer

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or you can put it on the PERSON to prove it. In other words, kinda of like how in a criminal trial it is on the state to prove the person guilty, but for disability it is on the PERSON to prove they are disabled to get benefits, so in that way it could be that a person is assumed to not qualify until THEY prove otherwise. Maybe even have them pay out of pocket keep records if you win you get your money back if you lose you do not.
Or…go to a “Medicare for all” system and skip the red-tape folderol?
 
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dogs4thewin

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Or…go to a “Medicare for all” system and skip the red-tape folderol?
as someone ON medicaid I would not advise that. It is CRAZY, not worth taking and frankly too much red tape. I have had private insurance, medicare and medicaid and geuss the order of the service hint it was ot the government though MEDICARE is better because there is less red tape and it is actually WORTH taking as a doctor.
 
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dogs4thewin

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Do you think "working" is the same as "having a job?"
Yes as if you do not do the job you will be let go and would deserve it.
 
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dogs4thewin

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SimplyMe

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Tomorrow i Trump's deadline it will be interesting to see what wil happen if the Republicans cannot meet it.

Somewhere around 5am, the Republicans finally paid off three Representatives to switch their vote, so they are now debating the budget bill. Last I know, Rep. Jeffries is tying up the debate with a multi-hour monologue, I'm sure with the goal to prevent Trump from being able to sign the bill on the 4th. Keep your popcorn ready, as the drama continues.
 
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