Gleaning up the excess billions.

I think the vatican should take the lead. They have a lot of resources in their possession that would command a great deal on the market and could be used for good works.

~bella

Xeno.of.athens said:

As a Catholic reflecting on how wealth should be handled in society, I’ve looked to the Old Testament for guidance. God gave Israel a set of laws that weren’t capitalist or socialist, but deeply concerned with justice, mercy, and the well-being of the whole community. These laws still speak to us today.

The Year of Jubilee – Leviticus 25​

Every fiftieth year, God commanded a Jubilee:

​

“You shall hallow the fiftieth year and proclaim liberty throughout the land to all its inhabitants; it shall be a jubilee for you” (Leviticus 25:10, NABRE).​

​

In this year:

• Land was returned to its original owners (Leviticus 25:13).
• Debts were forgiven.
• Slaves were freed (Leviticus 25:39–41).

This law reminded Israel that:

​

“The land shall not be sold in perpetuity, for the land is mine; with me you are but aliens and tenants” (Leviticus 25:23, NABRE).​

​

The Sabbatical Year – Deuteronomy 15​

Every seventh year, debts were to be cancelled:

​

“Every creditor shall release what he has lent to his neighbour” (Deuteronomy 15:2, NABRE).​

​

God warned against stinginess:

​

“Do not be mean-spirited and refuse someone a loan because the year for cancelling debts is close at hand” (Deuteronomy 15:9, NABRE).​

​

Instead:

​

“You shall open wide your hand to your brother, to the needy and to the poor in the land” (Deuteronomy 15:11, NABRE).​

​

Gleaning Laws – Leviticus 19 & Deuteronomy 24​

Farmers were told not to harvest everything:

​

“You shall not reap your field to its very border... you shall leave them for the poor and for the alien” (Leviticus 19:9–10, NABRE).​

​

​

“When you reap your harvest... you shall not go back to get it; it shall be for the alien, the orphan, and the widow” (Deuteronomy 24:19, NABRE).​

​

This ensured the vulnerable had access to food with dignity.

---

What the Church Teaches​

The Catechism of the Catholic Church says:

​

“The Old Law is the first stage of revealed Law. Its moral prescriptions are summed up in the Ten Commandments... It provides a teaching which endures forever” (CCC 1962–1964).​

​

The Church recognises that while the ceremonial laws are fulfilled in Christ, the moral and social principles remain valid.

In Economic Justice for All, the U.S. bishops wrote:

​

“The economy exists for the person, not the person for the economy... Economic decisions must be judged by how they protect or undermine the dignity of the human person” (Economic Justice for All, 1986).​

​

---

These laws and teachings challenge me to think about wealth not as a private entitlement, but as something entrusted to us for the good of all. They call for justice, mercy, and a deep concern for the poor. What do they say to you about yourself, your community, state, nation?

Click to expand...

As you probably already know: The Vatican's wealth is often misunderstood and exaggerated. A lot of the Vatican’s assets are not easily converted to cash. It’s one of the biggest charitable sources in the world. Historical and cultural reasons for keeping things as they are is also a huge consideration. Selling its assets is not a solution to the world’s ills. I think it does a fairly good job of preserving what basically belongs to all the faithful while still being good stewards of not only that, but carrying out what the Church is called to do by advocating and helping the least among us.

We are always going to have the poor and rich among us. I think being good stewards is the key. What do we do with our resources?

Xeno.of.athens said:

It looks like a modern implementation is not easy, none of the obvious applications are likely to get through congress. Maybe in Scandinavian countries some of the solutions can work; things like prison reform, restorative justice. And some of the economic issues like intergenerational wealth accumulation would benefit from something like periodic debt forgiveness and better more humane bankruptcy laws but it is no easy task to fit biblical laws to current society. Maybe current society needs to change into something closer to biblical community oriented society. Yet the politics of the USA and most western nations, makes it hard. Individualism is reigning triumphant in the English speaking world. How can we do better?

---

The kinder gentler version with a but more thinking in it. (I asked all my grammar software to do a few passes over my statement, and I added new thoughts as they came to me)

It’s clear that implementing these biblical principles in today’s world—especially in the U.S.—is no simple task. Most of the obvious applications, like debt forgiveness or land reform, would struggle to gain traction in Congress. Perhaps some elements, such as prison reform or restorative justice, have a better chance in more socially cohesive societies—Scandinavian countries come to mind.

Still, the deeper economic issues—like intergenerational wealth accumulation—cry out for bold solutions. Periodic debt relief and more humane bankruptcy laws could echo the spirit of the Jubilee, offering a reset for those trapped in cycles of poverty. But translating ancient laws into modern policy is no easy feat.

Maybe the real challenge isn’t just fitting biblical laws into our current society—but transforming society itself into something more like the biblical vision: community-oriented, merciful, and just. That’s a radical shift. And in much of the English-speaking world, where individualism reigns supreme, it feels like swimming against the tide.

So the question becomes: how do we begin to re-imagine our political and cultural priorities? How do we recover a sense of shared responsibility and moral economy? That’s the conversation we need to have.

Click to expand...

It’s a heart issue. When people say they do not recommend something or would not use it themselves but see it as an investment opportunity, it shows where their fealty is in the end. It’s not their fellow man. It’s a drug dealer mentality. Sell but don’t use. Jesus said we will always have the poor among us. We are called to help in anyway that’s in our capacity. But we are never going to have an equitable utopia for all until the Lord returns. We can’t do it ourselves through politics, etc. It’s a matter of the heart in the end. It does not mean we should not do our part but look at it through what Christ said. Not what we think we can do with or without Him for wealth.

The Old Testament laws provided a paradigm for the nation of Israel to represent God to the surrounding nations, demonstrating how to love God and love others. In its ancient context, this paradigm was more merciful and just than the norms of the surrounding nations. I believe Paul employed a similar approach in the New Testament, subtly subverting cultural norms and influencing households and communities with the Gospel message.

Yes we will always have the poor with us, meaning there will always be an opportunity to show generosity.

This generosity is exemplified by Boaz who was able to apply the gleaning laws to his own context as he assisted Ruth and Naomi. From the text he is seen as righteous. Being merciful and just as we utilize our resources is then an act of righteousness.

But I also believe it's not just about being generous by giving materials, but about empowering others to utilize the gifts they have been given by God.

Some great reads are Walking with the poor by Bryant Myers and When helping hurts how to alleviate poverty without hurting others and yourself by Steve Corbett and Brian Fikkert.

Both authors discuss the concept of poverty as a motif that runs through the meta-narrative of Scripture. They briefly define poverty as a lack of... and the root of our lack. Poverty is not just material, but spiritual, relational, emotional etc...

Xeno.of.athens said:

I see in this post a deep resonance with Catholic social teaching, particularly the preferential option for the poor. The Old Testament’s call to justice—embodied in figures like Boaz—foreshadows Christ’s own mission, who in Luke 4 declares He has come “to bring good news to the poor.” And Saint Paul’s subversion of cultural norms aligns with the Church’s call to transform society from within, not by force but by witness.

Christ’s words, “the poor you will always have with you” (Matt 26:11), are not resignation but invitation—to ongoing mercy, solidarity, and kenosis (self emptying). As Saint John Paul II taught, true development must be of the whole person and every person. Generosity, then, is not mere alms-giving but a participation in God’s justice—empowering others as co-creators in His providence.

Poverty in the community, rightly understood, is not just material lack but rupture in relationship—with God, self, one another, and creation. The Church’s vision of integral human development, as expressed in Populorum Progressio and Laudato Si’, calls me to restore those relationships through love in action.

Click to expand...

Again, it’s a heart issue imo. We can do what we can but we certainly cannot force the rest of the world to follow suit.

Xeno.of.athens said:

I see in this post a deep resonance with Catholic social teaching, particularly the preferential option for the poor.

Click to expand...

I've learnt long time ago that their is much to emulate and to avoid from the different faith groups. And the Catholic emphasis on helping others especially the vulnerable is one of the good things.

Xeno.of.athens said:

The Old Testament’s call to justice—embodied in figures like Boaz—foreshadows Christ’s own mission, who in Luke 4 declares He has come “to bring good news to the poor.”

Click to expand...

Yes, the hesed that echoes through Ruth speaks volumes to God's goodness towards us.

Xeno.of.athens said:

And Saint Paul’s subversion of cultural norms aligns with the Church’s call to transform society from within, not by force but by witness.

Click to expand...

The witness in sign, word and deed.

Xeno.of.athens said:

Christ’s words, “the poor you will always have with you” (Matt 26:11), are not resignation but invitation—to ongoing mercy, solidarity, and kenosis (self emptying). As Saint John Paul II taught, true development must be of the whole person and every person. Generosity, then, is not mere alms-giving but a participation in God’s justice—empowering others as co-creators in His providence.

Click to expand...

Amen

Xeno.of.athens said:

Poverty in the community, rightly understood, is not just material lack but rupture in relationship—with God, self, one another, and creation. The Church’s vision of integral human development, as expressed in Populorum Progressio and Laudato Si’, calls me to restore those relationships through love in action.

Click to expand...

Yes, and those relationships are further perpetuated by systems and structures that if lacking or flawed has detrimental effects.

Another aspect of why we don't share the resources may be our eschatological views. Do we live for heaven only i.e. Are we too spiritually minded and no earthly good? And alternatively how is/was the gospel presented, i.e What do we regard as the mission of the church? Is it preaching the Gospel or demonstrating the gospel? I believe it's both, yet there has been time-periods in history and in various contexts where one aspect has carried more weight than the other to the detriment of presenting a holistic gospel.

Xeno.of.athens said:

As a Catholic reflecting on how wealth should be handled in society, I’ve looked to the Old Testament for guidance. God gave Israel a set of laws that weren’t capitalist or socialist, but deeply concerned with justice, mercy, and the well-being of the whole community. These laws still speak to us today.

The Year of Jubilee – Leviticus 25​

Every fiftieth year, God commanded a Jubilee:

​

“You shall hallow the fiftieth year and proclaim liberty throughout the land to all its inhabitants; it shall be a jubilee for you” (Leviticus 25:10, NABRE).​

​

In this year:

• Land was returned to its original owners (Leviticus 25:13).
• Debts were forgiven.
• Slaves were freed (Leviticus 25:39–41).

This law reminded Israel that:

​

“The land shall not be sold in perpetuity, for the land is mine; with me you are but aliens and tenants” (Leviticus 25:23, NABRE).​

​

The Sabbatical Year – Deuteronomy 15​

Every seventh year, debts were to be cancelled:

​

“Every creditor shall release what he has lent to his neighbour” (Deuteronomy 15:2, NABRE).​

​

God warned against stinginess:

​

“Do not be mean-spirited and refuse someone a loan because the year for cancelling debts is close at hand” (Deuteronomy 15:9, NABRE).​

​

Instead:

​

“You shall open wide your hand to your brother, to the needy and to the poor in the land” (Deuteronomy 15:11, NABRE).​

​

Gleaning Laws – Leviticus 19 & Deuteronomy 24​

Farmers were told not to harvest everything:

​

“You shall not reap your field to its very border... you shall leave them for the poor and for the alien” (Leviticus 19:9–10, NABRE).​

​

​

“When you reap your harvest... you shall not go back to get it; it shall be for the alien, the orphan, and the widow” (Deuteronomy 24:19, NABRE).​

​

This ensured the vulnerable had access to food with dignity.

---

What the Church Teaches​

The Catechism of the Catholic Church says:

​

“The Old Law is the first stage of revealed Law. Its moral prescriptions are summed up in the Ten Commandments... It provides a teaching which endures forever” (CCC 1962–1964).​

​

The Church recognises that while the ceremonial laws are fulfilled in Christ, the moral and social principles remain valid.

In Economic Justice for All, the U.S. bishops wrote:

​

“The economy exists for the person, not the person for the economy... Economic decisions must be judged by how they protect or undermine the dignity of the human person” (Economic Justice for All, 1986).​

​

---

These laws and teachings challenge me to think about wealth not as a private entitlement, but as something entrusted to us for the good of all. They call for justice, mercy, and a deep concern for the poor. What do they say to you about yourself, your community, state, nation?

Click to expand...

Keeping in mind that those laws were given to the people of God, for the governance of the people of God.

They were not given to the world.

Your post highlights a major philosophical issue with western nations that started with the rise of nominalism and grew as humanism increasingly took hold. That is the individual-community divide, as we tend to overemphasize the importance of individual rights to the detriment of communal responsibilities. We prioritize autonomy above all else, and wealth then serves as a symbol of personal autonomy and property rights become more important to us than the well being of our fellow man. It's clear from the beginning that God intends for us to care for one another, as first crime in the Bible and Cain's justification reveal. The laws of Israel, and the judgments that followed, are all about the mistreatment of the most vulnerable in the nation which despite our substantial technological progress the heart issue has not changed, and in many ways has only become a bigger obstacle as wealth tends to own the person when we are not recognizing that we are merely stewards of God's fortunes.

Xeno.of.athens said:

As a Catholic reflecting on how wealth should be handled in society, I’ve looked to the Old Testament for guidance. God gave Israel a set of laws that weren’t capitalist or socialist, but deeply concerned with justice, mercy, and the well-being of the whole community. These laws still speak to us today.

Click to expand...

This, this right here. Especially they weren't "capitalist or socialist, but deeply concerned with justice, mercy, and the well-being of the whole community". That's the biblical ethic. That's Christian ethics. It's about deep and genuine concern about the just and right treatment of our neighbor, especially the most vulnerable in our community. An ethic that is more concerned with maintaining systems of power, rather than seeing power used to serve the needs of the needy is neither biblical nor Christian.

-CryptoLutheran

ViaCrucis said:

This, this right here. Especially they weren't "capitalist or socialist, but deeply concerned with justice, mercy, and the well-being of the whole community". That's the biblical ethic. That's Christian ethics. It's about deep and genuine concern about the just and right treatment of our neighbor, especially the most vulnerable in our community. An ethic that is more concerned with maintaining systems of power, rather than seeing power used to serve the needs of the needy is neither biblical nor Christian.

-CryptoLutheran

Click to expand...

Keeping in mind that Christians are required to obey the law of the land (Ro 13:1-5).

Xeno.of.athens said:

What do you mean?

Click to expand...

The law of the land must govern our efforts here, as with everything else.
Non-compliance with governmental law is contra-Biblical

Clare73 said:

The law of the land must govern our efforts here, as with everything else.
Non-compliance with governmental law is contra-Biblical

Click to expand...

Yes, but with an asterisk. We don't worship false gods or offer incense to Caesar just because the government says so.

We acknowledge that God has ordained the good ordering of human society, and so governing authorities exist for that good order; therefore the State bears the sword to curb social and civil evil. We pay our taxes, we abide by the just laws which order our society, we seek to exist in a state of peace with everyone insofar as it is up to us, to live honorably, to live rightly. But if the State commands that which God has forbidden, then we do not violate God's Law.

One example is the one I gave already. The ancient Roman state commanded that subjects make a token act of worship and sacrifice to the gods and offer incense to Caesar, this is idolatry and Christians are forbidden from committing idolatry. Persecution under Rome was usually because Christians did or didn't do something which the Roman authorities commanded or that which was expected of a "good" citizen or subject. Explicitly targeted persecution did happen sometimes, but most of the time persecution and harassment by the authorities was a by-product because Christians were viewed as trouble-makers, rabble-rousers, and not conforming to Roman norms. Christians didn't honor the gods, rejected idols, and worshiped only one invisible God, which got Christians labeled "atheists" (a label that was also often applied to Jews as well for the same reason). Thus offering a token sacrifice to the gods was considered a civic duty, and therefore not doing that was at various times either a direct violation of state law, or at other times an act of social non-conformity which the Roman authorities viewed as disturbing the moral character of the empire. Other accusations made against Christians by the state authorities was that Christians were "haters of mankind" because Christians did things like preach their religion and encouraged good and law-abiding Roman subjects and citizens to abandon their civic duty by converting to Christianity. The story of St. Perpetua involved the conversion of Perpetua, the daughter of a high standing Roman patrician; her faith and conviction in Jesus led her to desire to live chaste and remain celibate while her wealthy and powerful father would have her marry a husband--she did not, and she would not renounce her faith in Christ and return to doing her good Roman and "womanly" duties. So she was thrown in prison, and she would eventually receive her martyr's crown for her defiance and commitment to Jesus Christ.

If we look to the more recent past, we can look to the examples of those who refused to betray their Jewish neighbors to the Nazis, and instead aided and hid Jewish people and helped them escape Nazi-occupied parts of Europe. Of a similar vein, there were those who aided escaped slaves during the time of chattel slavery in the United States, various abolitionists and activists who helped escaped enslaved people find freedom, either in the North, or more commonly to Canada; brave heroes such as Harriet Tubman.

St. Augustine reminds us of an essential Christian truth: lex iniusta non est lex, an unjust law is no law at all.

To obey the governing authorities is not a black or white issue; but one that is predicated on what the authorities command and demand; ours is not to overthrow the temporal powers of this world and impose our will upon the world--but to live good, honorable, peaceful, and just lives in the world. And thus we remember that the powers of the state exist by Divine will for the sake of good order. So Caesar has his palace in Rome and rules over the empire, and we pay our taxes to Caesar. That does not mean, however, that we genuflect before Caesar and call him god and lord simply because he demands and commands we do so. For we confess one God and Father, and one Lord Jesus Christ. All men are our neighbors, and we do good to all, being honorable in the sight of all, doing that which is right.

-CryptoLutheran

Xeno.of.athens said:

I'm not so sure of that. Jesus didn't comply with Sadducee law and Roman law did

Click to expand...

Thanks. . .my statement was incomplete.

We are to obey the law of the land except where it requires us to personally sin, in which case we are to be prepared to suffer the conseqences of that disobedience.