Economic Times: Was 2024 Legit? Voting machines under scrutiny

rambot · Jun 12, 2025

ozso said:
Sounds like the Democrat version of Republican claims regarding the 2020 election and voter machines. It literally made me laugh out loud.

Except of course there is actual evidence of voting machines causing problems.

But I suppose evidence was never really important to Trump anyways. By doing EXACTLY what he did in 2020 (constantly undermining the results) he made it so any and every Trump supporter can take this attitude: "Oh look at the Dems complaining now. Oh well since Biden probably didn't steal the electionl, obviously Trump didn't either.

There could be video evidence of Trump saying "Thanks to Elon and his computers we won" and you guys still wouldn't care.

I'm not surprised you laughed out loud. As soon as I saw this news story there were several posters on CF I thought of.

This action was so transparent people were ALREADY making the claim that he was doing this back in 2020. What's funny to me is how completely obvious of a strategy the "every accusation is an admission" Republicans have been employing under Trump.

rambot · Jun 12, 2025

ThatRobGuy said:
It's a statistical anomaly, but not a surprising one given our current political backdrop.

A lot of things involving Trump have been anomalies compared to the status quo people were used to seeing in past election cycles and political climates. We're living in an era where republicans turned on Bush and Romney for not being "sufficiently conservative enough" despite the fact that behavior-wise, they were actually more conservative than Trump.

I'm not sure I'm not convinced that characterization of Bush, Romney and Trump is accurate. When you suggest they were "more conservative" than Trump, what timeframe and definition are you using to define conservative?

I'm trying to think of a policy of Trump's that has actually be progressive....

ThatRobGuy said:
Trump is also one of the first who has "gone hard" on fellow republicans at lower levels of government. When you look at the states that they claim were impacted (CA, NY, NJ)....

...."
The report centers around Pro V&V, a federally accredited lab responsible for certifying voting machines in key states like Pennsylvania, Florida, New Jersey, and California."

ThatRobGuy said:
. It's not a huge shocker. If a republican in any of those states wants even a snowball's chance in hell of winning, they can't run a "hard-right campaign", and when they tailor their positions to lean into the positions of their locale, he bashes them for it.

I still think the cause for the Harris statistic is the domestic situation created by the Gaza conflict.

Dearborn, MI was a textbook example of that.

Trump got 42%
Harris got 36%
Jill Stein got the rest

...that's an anomaly.

That was a "long & strong" democratic district prior to this election.

I seriously wonder if there is a regret rate measured in that town.

ThatRobGuy · Jun 12, 2025

rambot said:
I'm not sure I'm not convinced that characterization of Bush, Romney and Trump is accurate. When you suggest they were "more conservative" than Trump, what timeframe and definition are you using to define conservative?

I'm trying to think of a policy of Trump's that has actually be progressive....

On certain social issues and matters of "religiosity", Romney and Bush were definitely more conservative.

Romney and Bush were still during the time when a republican had to have a squeaky clean record (on the sexual infidelity front) in order to make it past the primaries.

Can you imagine either of those two holding up a rainbow flag, or appointing openly gay cabinet members?

Or can you imagine George W Bush telling republican governors "you shouldn't push the anti-abortion thing so hard, it's a loser of an issue"?

rambot said:
I seriously wonder if there is a regret rate measured in that town.

I would imagine that there has to be at least some level of regret among the Muslim voters in that area, given that Trump failed to deliver on "Getting Netanyahu in-line and ending the conflict".

But given that some of the labor unions declined to endorse Harris (as a result of their membership voting not to) -- and for reasons that had nothing to do with the Gaza conflict, there were some social aspects at play as well.

Like I noted before, Harris was in a tough spot with having an extremely thin tightrope to walk on a select few issues.

ozso · Jun 12, 2025

rambot said:
Except of course there is actual evidence of voting machines causing problems.

But I suppose evidence was never really important to Trump anyways. By doing EXACTLY what he did in 2020 (constantly undermining the results) he made it so any and every Trump supporter can take this attitude: "Oh look at the Dems complaining now. Oh well since Biden probably didn't steal the electionl, obviously Trump didn't either.

There could be video evidence of Trump saying "Thanks to Elon and his computers we won" and you guys still wouldn't care.

I'm not surprised you laughed out loud. As soon as I saw this news story there were several posters on CF I thought of.

This action was so transparent people were ALREADY making the claim that he was doing this back in 2020. What's funny to me is how completely obvious of a strategy the "every accusation is an admission" Republicans have been employing under Trump.

It'll interesting to see the My Pillow Guy version of this.

RocksInMyHead · Jun 13, 2025

ThatRobGuy said:
On certain social issues and matters of "religiosity", Romney and Bush were definitely more conservative.

Romney and Bush were still during the time when a republican had to have a squeaky clean record (on the sexual infidelity front) in order to make it past the primaries.

Can you imagine either of those two holding up a rainbow flag, or appointing openly gay cabinet members?

Or can you imagine George W Bush telling republican governors "you shouldn't push the anti-abortion thing so hard, it's a loser of an issue"?

That's a pretty narrow definition of "conservative."

com7fy8 · Jun 14, 2025

rambot said:
There certainly seems enough here for their to be a robust discussion of outcomes.

When I was being told that Donald said there had been fraud . . . I was in question about the source. And then a certain woman on TV guaranteed she was a connected and expert prosecutor who guaranteed she had court-admissible statements so she would prove fraud plus *indict* people for it. And then she got proven false, and her case was rejected by federal judges. But her TV host did not make an obvious effort make sure we knew this . . . by the way . . . it seemed to me.

So, that did not help credibility.

And I thought of a couple items. Donald had four years in office to make sure elections were secure.

Donald's administration appointed *some* number of those federal judges who threw his case out. Plus, he himself chose his vice president who as a born-again Christian knew he could not go along with the thing.

Now I see at least one similarity > Joe had four years, also, to make sure the elections would be secure. And yet, ones are claiming that Joe's people are the ones who have been cheated!

rambot · Jun 14, 2025

com7fy8 said:
When I was being told that Donald said there had been fraud . . . I was in question about the source. And then a certain woman on TV guaranteed she was a connected and expert prosecutor who guaranteed she had court-admissible statements so she would prove fraud plus *indict* people for it. And then she got proven false, and her case was rejected by federal judges. But her TV host did not make an obvious effort make sure we knew this . . . by the way . . . it seemed to me.

So, that did not help credibility.

And I thought of a couple items. Donald had four years in office to make sure elections were secure.

Donald's administration appointed *some* number of those federal judges who threw his case out. Plus, he himself chose his vice president who as a born-again Christian knew he could not go along with the thing.

Now I see at least one similarity > Joe had four years, also, to make sure the elections would be secure. And yet, ones are claiming that Joe's people are the ones who have been cheated!

Understand the problem being discussed in this particular thread could NOT have been controlled by anyone as the company itself made fraudulent statements that would not have been proved without micromanaging.

ozso said:
It'll interesting to see the My Pillow Guy version of this.

Why do you think there will be a My Pillow Guy version?
That guy was a 100% failure in court. Thus far, this one challenging, is 100%.

Semper-Fi · Jun 20, 2025

rambot said:
In what ways are these accusations THE SAME as 2020 and in what ways are they DIFFERENT? I feel like some mouth breathers are going to see these two situations as carbon copies of each other. There are certainly similarities, but there are also vERY important differences.

Thoughts?

[June 16, 2025] The FBI Director Provides Evidence China Helped Biden Steal 2020 Election.

FBI gives Congress intel on alleged Chinese plot to create fake mail-in ballots in 2020

Newly declassified intelligence report partially corroborated but was recalled before it could be fully investigated, officials say.

justthenews.com

-

"The far left likes to organize "No Kings" day, and calls Trump a dictator.
Yet the behavior of the Bidens sure looks like the act of an untouchable
-- and unaccountable -- royal family to me."

MSN

essentialsaltes · Jun 21, 2025

Semper-Fi said:
The FBI Director Provides Evidence China Helped Biden Steal 2020 Election.

alleged

"partially corroborated but was recalled before it could be fully investigated,"

Was that the time when they couldn't find any bamboo fibers in the ballots?

Semper-Fi · Jun 21, 2025

essentialsaltes said:
alleged

Have patience, the new investigation is just starting.

essentialsaltes said:
"partially corroborated but was recalled before it could be fully investigated,"

Why was it recalled?
"on the grounds that the source needed to be re-interviewed."

So all they needed to do was re-interview the source, but
instead they buried the info and dropped the investigation.

essentialsaltes said:
Was that the time when they couldn't find any bamboo fibers in the ballots?

This was about the same time U.S. Customs and Border Protection,
had intercepted nearly 20,000 fake licenses around the time the
intelligence came in a possible corroboration of the report, officials said.

essentialsaltes · Jun 21, 2025

Semper-Fi said:
This was about the same time U.S. Customs and Border Protection,
had intercepted nearly 20,000 fake licenses around the time the
intelligence came in a possible corroboration of the report, officials said.

A confidential source alleges that the Joker is going to use illegally parked cars to blow up Gotham City infrastructure.

GC Parking Enforcement found nearly 20,000 illegally parked cars over the course of the past six months in a possible corroboration of the report, officials said.

Since the beginning of the year to June 30, CBP officers at the IMF have seized 1,513 shipments with fraudulent documents- a total of 19,888 counterfeit US drivers’ licenses.

Semper-Fi · Jun 21, 2025

essentialsaltes said:
GC Parking Enforcement found nearly 20,000 illegally parked cars over the course of the past six months in a possible corroboration of the report, officials said.

Since the beginning of the year to June 30, CBP officers at the IMF have seized 1,513 shipments with fraudulent documents- a total of 19,888 counterfeit US drivers’ licenses.

illegally parked cars ?

Your article from [2020] says nothing about parked cars that I can tell.

Over 19K Fraudulent IDs Seized by CBP Officers in Chicago. The majority
of these shipments were arriving from [China and Hong Kong],..

NxNW · Jun 22, 2025

Seems like this thread is drifting from the original topic. Can we get back on track?

Personally, I doubt (m)any votes were changed maliciously (occasionsl glitches do happen, and likely cancel each other out), though I'm not opposed to an investigation.

But even if it were found that Harris had won, I don't think there is any mechanism to remove Trump now. An impeachment would fall flat and only strengthen Trump's position.

RocksInMyHead · Jun 22, 2025

Semper-Fi said:
illegally parked cars ?

Your article from [2020] says nothing about parked cars that I can tell.

Are you familiar with the concept of analogy?

Semper-Fi said:
Over 19K Fraudulent IDs Seized by CBP Officers in Chicago. The majority
of these shipments were arriving from [China and Hong Kong],..

The presence of fraudulent identification documents does not imply any specific intended purpose for them. As the article notes, fake IDs are used for many things.

Semper-Fi · Jun 23, 2025

RocksInMyHead said:
Are you familiar with the concept of analogy?

Not sure how a fake I.D. from China
compares with a parked car in a garage.

essentialsaltes made a statement and gave a link.

"GC Parking Enforcement found nearly 20,000 illegally parked cars
over the course of the past six months in a possible corroboration
of the report, officials said."

Over 19K Fraudulent IDs Seized by CBP Officers in Chicago

Securing America's Borders

www.cbp.gov

I pointed out the report he gave said nothing about illegally parked cars, " officials never said"
this was about illegally parked cars as claimed in his statement " officials said" .

RocksInMyHead said:
The presence of fraudulent identification documents does not imply any specific intended purpose for them. As the article notes, fake IDs are used for many things.

The article essentialsaltes posted "Over 19K Fraudulent IDs Seized by CBP Officers in
Chicago would not be the exact same list as the newly declassified intelligence report
from FBI on the whole subject. There are more than one airport or entry into the U.S.

FBI gives Congress intel on alleged Chinese plot to create fake mail-in ballots in 2020

Newly declassified intelligence report partially corroborated but was recalled before it could be fully investigated, officials say.

justthenews.com

“Specifically, these include allegations of plans from the CCP to
manufacture fake driver's licenses and ship them into the United
States for the purpose of facilitating fraudulent mail-in ballots –
allegations which, while substantiated, were abruptly recalled
and never disclosed to the public,” Patel also said.

“In accordance with Chairman Grassley's request for documents,
I have immediately declassified the material and turned the
document over to the Chairman for further review."

As I mentioned to essentialsaltes, have patience because
the new investigation into this corruption is just starting.

Valletta · Jun 26, 2025

Semper-Fi said:
Not sure how a fake I.D. from China
compares with a parked car in a garage.

essentialsaltes made a statement and gave a link.

"GC Parking Enforcement found nearly 20,000 illegally parked cars
over the course of the past six months in a possible corroboration
of the report, officials said."

Over 19K Fraudulent IDs Seized by CBP Officers in Chicago

Securing America's Borders

www.cbp.gov

I pointed out the report he gave said nothing about illegally parked cars, " officials never said"
this was about illegally parked cars as claimed in his statement " officials said" .

The article essentialsaltes posted "Over 19K Fraudulent IDs Seized by CBP Officers in
Chicago would not be the exact same list as the newly declassified intelligence report
from FBI on the whole subject. There are more than one airport or entry into the U.S.

FBI gives Congress intel on alleged Chinese plot to create fake mail-in ballots in 2020

Newly declassified intelligence report partially corroborated but was recalled before it could be fully investigated, officials say.

justthenews.com

“Specifically, these include allegations of plans from the CCP to
manufacture fake driver's licenses and ship them into the United
States for the purpose of facilitating fraudulent mail-in ballots –
allegations which, while substantiated, were abruptly recalled
and never disclosed to the public,” Patel also said.

“In accordance with Chairman Grassley's request for documents,
I have immediately declassified the material and turned the
document over to the Chairman for further review."

As I mentioned to essentialsaltes, have patience because
the new investigation into this corruption is just starting.

20,000 fake licenses intercepted is a lot.

NxNW · Jun 26, 2025

Semper-Fi said:
"The far left likes to organize "No Kings" day, and calls Trump a dictator.
Yet the behavior of the Bidens sure looks like the act of an untouchable
-- and unaccountable -- royal family to me."

Biden committed no such acts. Trump was the one who tried to overthrow the government, and who claims that neither the courts nor Congress can limit his acts.

RocksInMyHead · Jun 27, 2025

Valletta said:
20,000 fake licenses intercepted is a lot.

It certainly sounds like a lot. But without any historical context of how many fake IDs are normally intercepted in a similar period of time, you can't say with any certainly that it actually is a lot.

FireDragon76 · Jun 30, 2025

ThatRobGuy said:
I don't know that the down-ballot performance necessarily throws up any huge red flags given the regional aspects of our political parties.

Depending on the state/locale, there are instances where the candidate outflanks their party's voter base (ideologically) in certain areas, but in some other locales, it's the other way around.
(as where a more regional down-ballot candidate can tailor their campaign & positions specifically to that one jurisdiction -- presidential candidates don't have that same luxury)

Harris got trapped in the situation where she was "too left" for some midwestern and southern democrats, but "not left enough" for democrats on the west coast.

I think the discrepancy is better explained by alot of targeted money and strategic campaigning going to swing states in this past election.

Landon Caeli · Jun 30, 2025

Voting machines are like lottery machines... You never know what they'll do.

Economic Times: Was 2024 Legit? Voting machines under scrutiny

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