How is it that the Catholic Church is evil?

boughtwithaprice · Jun 24, 2025

DaveM said:
I can forgive anyone for sin, but what good is it if he is still enslaved to the sin !! you must be born again to enter into the kingdom, do you understand what being born again is??

all you Catholics who confess your sins to a Priest,,, who has been freed from the sin and born again?? we must repent, big difference between confession and repentance

You can forgive anyone for sins against you, but you do not have the authority to forgive others their sins against God. Priests have been given that authority by Christ

I whole heartedly agree that we must repent. Mere words are lip service if not followed by action. The sacrament of confession is for souls that are already born again, yet have fallen into sin. It is not for becoming born again.
The sacrament of baptism is for becoming born again, and the sacrament of confirmation is the seal of the Holy Spirt.
Each sacrament dispenses the grace of God, but its effect is dependent on the will of the recipient. The will is given by God and it is free to choose. Do we choose ourselves (he who saves his life will lose it), or do we follow Jesus’ command to deny himself and take up his cross? (He who loses his life for my sake, the same will save it)
The sacraments are not magical or subject to superstition. God does not force His will on anyone. He wants to be freely loved, as love is not love if it is not free. Scripture says, whosever will come drink of the waters of life freely.
We come to the sacrament of confession with the proper will. Sorrow for the sin and having offended God, and a resolve to repent and abandon that sin. If the disposition and intention are not there, then the sacrament is of no effect, as God does not force His grace on anyone against their will.
He did not even force His will on Mary, although He greatly desired to redeem the world. God waited for her consent, and it is with great joy we hear, behold the handmaid of the Lord, be it done to me according to thy word. She received the fullness of His grace. We also receive grace when we align our wills to God’s.

Jesus gave the authority to forgive sins to His apostles and that authority has been passed down by the laying on of hands to the priests we have today. To receive the grace of reconciliation , we have to submit our will to God. The priest does not have the power to forgive sins on his own apart from God. He can only act as Christ’s representative and then only with a willing penitent.

Anyone that says the priest will forgive your sins is wrong. Jesus forgives sins, the priest is His representative. Confession is provided by the Church as scripture says in Hebrews that if we sin after we have known the truth, there is no more sacrifice for sin. Confession keeps our wills aligned to God in continually asking for the grace of forgiveness. Scripture says he who asks receives he who seeks finds and knocks will be opened to him. The sacrament of confession gives us a way of doing that

If we say that Jesus paid everything so I don’t have to do anything, how do we keep our hearts aligned to the will of God? How do we prevent ourselves from slipping into the arrogance of the Church of Laodicea, of which if we do not repent God will vomit us out of His mouth?

For the will to be strengthened, we must practice repentance. This is required because the spirit is willing, but the flesh is weak. The sacrament of confession keeps our will in submission to God and the opportunity to use our flesh to do God’s will and not our own. It is a great gift which Jesus gave to His Church for us to practice repentance. You are correct. There is no forgiveness without repentance

Fidelibus · Jun 24, 2025

DaveM said:
biggest issue for me was going to Priest to ask forgiveness of sin, and never being freed from the enslavement of that sin, only Jesus frees us from the enslavement of sin, only Jesus gives us a new heart, a new spirit, going to priest to confess your sins is 100% worthless, and has no spiritual power at all. Only Jesus can free you from sin, only Jesus grants us eternal life by the father.

Statements like this bring me to believe that you were poorly catechized being brought up in the Catholic Church. Not trying to single you out Dave, but this seems to be a common denominator among those who left the Catholic Church.

To those fellow posters that may remember me, sorry about being away for so long.

Have a Blessed Day!

Jerry N. · Jun 24, 2025

I don’t agree with Catholic doctrine, but I believe many Catholics are brothers and sisters in Christ. However, there are a few things about the Catholic Church that are appealing. The sacrament of confession is one of them. It would be nice to tell somebody my sins anonymously, and I’m sure it has a fine physiological benefits. Since God forgives my sins without a priest, I don’t think it is necessary. The Sacrament of Extreme Unction also seems like a good thing. If I was dying and a priest came to give it to me, I wouldn’t refuse, except communion, because it would be disingenuous on my part.

DaveM · Jun 24, 2025

boughtwithaprice said:
Priests have been given that authority by Christ

really does that mean the priest that were sexually abusing little boys, God entrusted them with have the authority to forgive sin,

Jerry N. · Jun 24, 2025

DaveM said:
really does that mean the priest that were sexually abusing little boys, God entrusted them with have the authority to forgive sin,

While I condemn what priest have done. I have to accept that Catholics separate the position from the person. I don’t agree, but I understand it.

tampasteve · Jun 24, 2025

DaveM said:
all you Catholics who confess your sins to a Priest,,, who has been freed from the sin and born again?? we must repent, big difference between confession and repentance

In all due respect, if that is how you view Confession, otherwise known as Reconciliation, then you don't understand what it is.

One must approach it with a contrite and repentant heart, with a will to repent and not do it again. Simply telling the priest doesn't absolve you of the sin, one must have a contrite heart.

tampasteve · Jun 24, 2025

DaveM said:
really does that mean the priest that were sexually abusing little boys, God entrusted them with have the authority to forgive sin,

Yes, while the crimes you mention were and are heinous, the sinner still has the ability to effect the sacrament. This was settled during the Donatist controversy, well before Protestantism.

DaveM · Jun 24, 2025

Fidelibus said:
but this seems to be a common denominator among those who left the Catholic Church.

the common denominator I see most, is people started reading the Bible for themselves, and realized how far off the Catholics teachings were against Gods word. they have so many many made traditions that the make the word of of void. forbidding priest to marry, child baptism, saying 7 hail Mary's for repentance, not meat on Fridays, I could go on and on.

But really the heart of the matter is do we Love God with all are being, and do we Love our neighbor as our self, are we investing time into others helping the needy.

I know many God loving Catholics, who are great examples of Loving God and neighbor.

concretecamper · Jun 24, 2025

tampasteve said:
Yes, while the crimes you mention were and are heinous, the sinner still has the ability to effect the sacrament. This was settled during the Donatist controversy, well before Protestantism.

Absolutely.

"those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it"

George Santayana.

Kathleen30 · Jun 24, 2025

tampasteve said:
In all due respect, if that is how you view Confession, otherwise known as Reconciliation, then you don't understand what it is.

One must approach it with a contrite and repentant heart, with a will to repent and not do it again. Simply telling the priest doesn't absolve you of the sin, one must have a contrite heart.

With all due respect. TampaSteve I would say to that Why do we need Reconciliation between an earthly fallen priest and us when we have the heavenly mediator called Jesus Christ who has returned from earth to heaven to whom we are able to confess all our failings to everyday. It’s a bit likewanting to use a cow and cart for confession with a fallen priest who never had the the power to forgive humanitys fallen nature in Adam in being able to forgive our fallen nature against the wrath of God . Yes why choose a fallen priest when we have a Jesus Christ awaiting for each of our confessions who is able to wipe away our sins daily be they past present or future

boughtwithaprice · Jun 25, 2025

DaveM said:
really does that mean the priest that were sexually abusing little boys, God entrusted them with have the authority to forgive sin,

That a fair question. We understand the answer by listening to Jesus words. He said in the parable of the wheat and the tares that there will be evil in His Church on Earth because Satan is going to put them there, in order to take the Church down.
God does not authorize us to rip out the tares or destroy the wheat field and build another, else the parable would include something akin to Monsanto which would poison all the tares so the wheat could grow, or it would have the wheat being transplanted into a new field devoid of tares.
God did not describe either solution. He says to let the tares grow along side the wheat and then they will be divided at harvest.
Also the efficacy of the sacraments are not dependent on the righteousness of the priest, bishop, cardinal, or even Pope that dispenses them. The grace of the sacraments comes from the Holy Spirit who is the Paraclete sent by God to protect His Church.
If they depended on the righteousness of men, then God would be subject to men, rather than us being subject to God. The principle is called
Ex Opere Operato, or by the work performed. The Priest is not a wizard or a conjurer who brings God to someone. The priest is God’s representative, and God works through His representatives when they follow His commands in obedience. God is almighty and is not dependent on the righteousness of man to complete His work.
Yes, abusive priests need to be removed and punished, but their actions are not able to limit the grace of God. If they were, then we would say Satan is stronger than God, because all he would have to do to stop God would be to get priests to commit evil and God’s mission is stopped. We know that is not true, because even though Satan is in rebellion against God, he must submit to God and will be cast into the lake of fire for eternity.

As an example, we look at Judas Iscariot. He was one of the Apostles and performed miracles and works of healing along with Jesus, but his heart was not in it, and he betrayed Our Lord and found himself in hell as the son of perdition. His betrayal did not nullify the works he previously performed at the command of Jesus

tampasteve · Jun 25, 2025

Kathleen30 said:
With all due respect. TampaSteve I would say to that Why do we need Reconciliation between an earthly fallen priest and us when we have the heavenly mediator called Jesus Christ who has returned from earth to heaven to whom we are able to confess all our failings to everyday. It’s a bit likewanting to use a cow and cart for confession with a fallen priest who never had the the power to forgive humanitys fallen nature in Adam in being able to forgive our fallen nature against the wrath of God . Yes why choose a fallen priest when we have a Jesus Christ awaiting for each of our confessions who is able to wipe away our sins daily be they past present or future

It's not "Reconciliation between an earthly fallen priest and us ", it is reconciliation between us, Christ and His church. The RCC does teach that a perfect confession to Christ is sufficient, and a confession for minor sins is always right - the Eucharist absolves us as well. Confession to a priest is only necessary for grave sins, but recommended for all.

But your question is really why to confess to a priest, not really the need of reconciliation at all. First, James 5:16 tells us "Therefore, confess your sins to one another and pray for one another, that you may be healed. The prayer of a righteous person is very powerful in its effect". So even if you you believe that you don't need a priest, scripture supports confessing to one another and not just to Christ alone.

The belief of a priest holding the ability to confer absolution is based on several places in scripture, but the verse in John 20:21-23 is key:

Jesus said to them again, “Peace be with you. As the Father has sent me, even so I send you.” And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and said to them, “Receive the Holy Spirit. If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained.”

To this day Priests are ordained in a similar manner.

Let's be perfectly honest, many (perhaps even most) Christians, and Protestants in particular, don't actually examine their consciences and ask Christ for forgiveness for XYZ sin. They may say a "I'm sorry for sinning" type confession, but that's about it. Of course there are people that actually do examine their sins and confess those to Christ, but I doubt that it is most. Confessing to another person forces us to at least examine ourselves before stating our sins to the other person.

I don't expect you to necessarily agree, but I hope that I am showing the reasons for what Catholics believe - as well as Orthodox Christians. People have confessed to a priest since the early days of the Church. You can read a pretty good article here: Is Confession in Scripture?

Fidelibus · Jun 25, 2025

DaveM said:
the common denominator I see most, is people started reading the Bible for themselves, and realized how far off the Catholics teachings were against Gods word. they have so many many made traditions that the make the word of of void. forbidding priest to marry, child baptism, saying 7 hail Mary's for repentance, not meat on Fridays, I could go on and on.

Again, more proof of how poorly you have been catechized. I highly recommend you picking up a copy of the 'Catechism of the Catholic Church' and study what the Catholic Church "actually" teaches and believes. You are not the first person (or the last, for that matter) that left the Catholic Church believing, that just because, you are somehow fully knowledgeable in the teachings of the Catholic Church. So far, your posts regarding the Catholic Church' beliefs show otherwise. (smh)

Have a Blessed Day!

Fidelibus · Jun 25, 2025

DaveM said:
really does that mean the priest that were sexually abusing little boys, God entrusted them with have the authority to forgive sin,

So, what would you have to say about 'all' the Protestant pastors and clergy that have sexually abused children, (and adults) do you believe they have the right to teach they're congregation on the bible and human morals?

Have a Blessed Day!

DaveM · Jun 25, 2025

Fidelibus said:
Again, more proof of how poorly you have been catechized.

actually that is the exact reason I started reading the Bible and got out of a man made religion that teaches the traditions of Man over Gods word. I thought I Was clear on that. I have a personal relationship with my Lord savior King of kings and obey his word, not some religion organization that tells me to pray to a dead person weather it be saints or Mary, not a religion organization that tells me the pope is the holy father, there is but one HOLY father and that is God almighty,.

(staff edit)

Fervent · Jun 25, 2025

Rejecting the Magisterium does not require believing the catholic church to be evil. It simply requires denial of any special ordination of Catholic Bishops regarding exegesis and doctrinal matters, and denying that the Bishop of Rome is the vicar of Christ. Denying this does not require malice or suspicion of the Catholic Church, though it does put one outside of the Roman Catholic Church. And the reasons for making such a denial can be firmly rooted in the history of that position and the power creep that took place over the centuries. If there is a charge against the RCC, it's that they attempt to place a clergy as intermediary between the parishoners and God, and that's an intolerable imposition AFAIAC.

RileyG · Jun 25, 2025

BobRyan said:
1 Cor 9 "I buffet my body and make it my slave lest after preaching the gospel to others I myself should be disqualified from it" -- is not penance but it is a life strictly devoted to God and preaching the word.

Penance:
voluntary self-punishment inflicted as an outward expression of repentance for having done wrong.

That is more along the lines of punching ones self in the face. Whipping oneself on the back... denying oneself water etc. Things that we do not find in the Bible

The last paragraph usually isn’t practiced by many faithful today, because quite frankly, it’s not spiritually healthy.

caffeinated.hermit · Jun 25, 2025

boughtwithaprice said:
To my Protestant brethren.

Here are the Pope’s monthly intentions for the month of June as published by the US conference of Catholic Bishops. These were written by Francis, but as far a I can tell they are not revised by Leo XIV. He will publish his in 2026.

June
That the world might grow in compassion
Let us pray that each one of us might find consolation in a personal relationship with Jesus, and from his Heart, learn to have compassion on the world.

Given that Our Lord said a house divided against itself cannot stand, and Satan does not cast out Satan, what are your best arguments against the Catholic Church? What basis would you use to call the Catholic Church evil, assuming that you do so?

I only want to reach understanding and am not here to insult you or lord myself over you, I only want to know

To my Catholic and Orthodox brethren, I ask that you merely listen. If you wish to post in this thread, please message me directly before you do. This thread is to allow the case to be made and their evidence presented. We can evaluate it when fully heard

Honestly, I don't have any real arguments against the Catholic Church. They've given the world St. Francis, Theresa of Lisieux, Mother Teresa, Thomas Merton, Father Maximilian Kolbe, and Dorothy Day. There must be some incredibly good soil there. I've left Sola Fide over the years, and have seen that "Sola Scriptura", while maybe an excellent idea on paper, doesn't lead to anything like Christian unity. Like, at all.

On the other hand, there are some awful, awful Catholics out there. That's true. But there's a lot of good things to learn from them, I consider Catholics fellow Christians, and I admire a lot of them.

JSRG · Jun 25, 2025

DaveM said:
And your new leader called Mary god, is that what they teach now in the Catholic church, ?

Before someone takes an 8-second out of context clip as gospel, it may be a good idea to look into it and double check. The clip has him say something with someone talking over in English, and it says "ask for this special grace from Mary our God". But only a small amount of research easily shows that what he actually said was "Mary our mother."

The video, at least, says in its description where it is from:
"At his inauguration pope Leo the 14th says Mary is God now this was still a translator that I heard it, but those two words in Italian don’t sound the same I just pray that this is not a reflection on what the new pope is gonna be like and a miss speaking and I also pray for Catholic and the church"

So all one has to do is do a quick search for the inauguration speech of Leo XIV, and one will quickly find transcripts, such as this one:

FULL TEXT: Pope Leo XIV's first public address

On May 9 (Manila time), the conclave elected USA's Robert Francis Cardinal Prevost as the 26th pontiff. Shortly after, the new Pope addressed the public for the first time from the balcony of St. Peter's Basilica.

philstarlife.com

This renders the applicable page as "We ask for this special grace from Mary, our Mother." This took virtually no effort to do; was it too much effort to simply spend less than a minute verifying the matter before posting about how he called Mary "our god"?

But, if someone wants to see it in the original language so they can judge it that way, that can be found here:

Transcript of Pope Leo XIV's first speech after election: ‘Peace be with you'

In his first words as Pope Francis’ successor, uttered from the loggia of St. Peter’s Basilica, Leo said, “Peace be with you,” and emphasized a message of peace, dialogue and missionary evangelization. He wore the traditional red cape of the papacy — a cape that Francis had eschewed on his...

www.nbcnewyork.com

"Preghiamo insieme per questa nuova missione, per tutta la Chiesa, per la pace nel mondo e chiediamo questa grazia speciale a Maria, nostra Madre."

"Nostra madre" is "our mother". Whoever did the translation your video showed messed up really badly here. Perhaps it was just a goof up due to it being a live translation, but for all I know it was someone who put that in after the fact to mislead people (it certainly is odd to mistake "nostra madre" for "our god"). I should note that I did look at several live translations, like this one:

The phrase occurs at aboug 10:30 in. See also Watch Pope Leo XIV's first public address - in full (7:28). Both correctly say "our mother".

This is why it is so important to make a small effort to verify things before claiming them. Again, it took about half a minute to find the English transcript that said "our mother". It took slightly more effort to find the original language and check the other live translations, but even that didn't take that long.

Fidelibus · Jun 25, 2025

DaveM said:
actually that is the exact reason I started reading the Bible and got out of a man made religion that teaches the traditions of Man over Gods word.

Are you are referring to the Catholic Church when you say, "got out of a man-made religion"? If so, could you please enlighten me on who or what man you believe to have established the Catholic Church, and when you believe this to have happened? (date please)

I thought I Was clear on that.

Okay

I have a personal relationship with my Lord savior

As do I.

not some religion organization that tells me to pray to a dead person whether it be saints or Mary, not a religion organization that tells me the pope is the holy father, there is but one HOLY father and that is God almighty,

FYI, the language of "praying to the saints" is actually never used by the Catholic Church's Magisterium. Rather, the more common language in official Church documents is "the invocation of the saints." However, a Catholic is still justified in using the language, since the term "prayer "can be used simply to refer to a request, even if the request is made to another human being.

It all about loving God my friend, not religion organization that exalts itself over God, saying things like the pope is infallible, that is a lie straight from the pit.

Again, this is another good example of why I believe you being poorly catechized in the Catholic Church's teachings and beliefs. This is also why I believe it would behoove you to have a copy of the Catechism of the Catholic Church. If you had, you could go straight to paragraphs 888-892 and learn the true Church teachings regarding Papal infallibility.

And your new leader called Mary god, is that what they teach now in the Catholic church, ?

Did you happen to see forum members JSRG' post #219? If you happen to, would you be willing to admit your error? Guess we'll have to wait and see.

In closing, are you planning to address my post # 214?

Have a Blessed Day!

How is it that the Catholic Church is evil?

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