Do any Bible verses contradict a flat earth?

JohnClay said:

A guy I know who's done a university computing degree currently believes in a flat earth. I think he believes that because he thinks that's what the Bible says.

I think most flat earthers these days believe that the Earth is a circle with the ice wall of Antarctica around the boundary. The Sun and Moon are believed to be small and close.

I get the impression that there are no verses in the Bible that contradict that flat earth theory.

But here are some that initially might seem to:

Luke 17:34-36
"I tell you, on that night two people will be in one bed. One person will be taken and the other left. Two women will be grinding grain together. One will be taken and the other left."

That suggests there is day and night simultaneously on the Earth - but the mainstream flat earth theory is compatible with this.

Isaiah 40:22
"He sits enthroned above the circle of the earth,
and its people are like grasshoppers.
He stretches out the heavens like a canopy,
and spreads them out like a tent to live in."

The mainstream flat earth theory also is a circle. I think that verse fits the flat earth better because it has a clear "above" position, is easier to spread a tent over and everyone would be visible like grasshoppers (in a globe half of the people would be obscured by the earth)

Revelation 7:1 and Revelation 20:8 talk about the four corners of the earth but this can fit the flat earth like this:

The following young earth creationist (YEC) web page is against a flat earth but it seems to give scientific reasons to believe in a globe rather than any Biblical reasons:

A flat earth, and other nonsense · Creation.com

Creation or evolution? It makes a big difference! Over 10,000 trustworthy articles. Evidence for biblical creation.

creation.com

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Needless to say, John, he's wrong and you're close to being right. It sounds like your friend at work needs to study how people of the Ancient Near East conceptualized the structure of the world. This is especially important because none of the biblical books were written in a non-historical vacuum and simply finding bits in the biblical books isn't going to give enough info to discern what the biblical thinkers most likely thought about world geography and ontology.

Maybe suggest to him to study more broadly like an educated person would tend to do?

No and you left out Genesis chapter 1 where God states He created a raqia. That separates waters from waters and this is also where God states. He place the great lights He created, the sun, moon and stars, in the raqia to give light to the earth.

Plus earth in The Bible means land/ground and not a water covered sphere. The earth in Genesis was a single piece of stationary land surrounded by the seas.

Flat earth is more than just a flat earth, the flat earth Biblical belief. God's creation is nothing like what science has claimed over the 100's of years. There are no planets or outer space the sun, moon and stars are 1000's of miles above the earth and they are the moving objects and not the earth. The earth is flat and stationary.

Joshua chapter 10

JohnClay said:

I thought we both agreed that the Bible seems to promote a belief in a flat earth. I believe in a non-obvious intelligent force and I believe that generally the Bible isn't historical. I think it is a test of your character to see whether you follow it faithfully as a source of morality and Truth.

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You agreed with him that the Bible promotes a flat earth?

No John, it's not a test of our character to replace hermeneutics and historical study with patchwork guessing gleaned from a few bits and pieces of Scripture. In one sense, the way the earth was conceptualized in Old Testament times was seemingly flat, but it wasn't in the way that you're thinking. Here, let's take a look at how the ancients (before the Greeks) more or less thought about the 'structure' of the world as it was situated within their cosmology.

Is the following brief presentation by the late scholar Michael Heiser what you were thinking of as "flat"?

The problem with saying the earth is flat is you have to also incorporate a mammoth conspiracy theory into that belief. A worldwide conspiracy that countless numbers of people have been perpetrating for centuries.

JohnClay said:

The Bible says:
1 Chronicles 16:30
"Tremble before him, all the earth! The world is firmly established; it cannot be moved."

Psalm 104:5
"He set the earth on its foundations; it can never be moved."

On the other hand science says the earth is spinning on its axis at about 1000 miles per hour, orbiting the Sun at 66,000 miles per hour and moving around the Milky Way at 514,000 miles per hour...

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Yes that is what science says, but i will go with what God states.

ozso said:

The problem with saying the earth is flat is you have to also incorporate a mammoth conspiracy theory into that belief. A worldwide conspiracy that countless of people have been perpetrating for centuries.

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Are there more flat earthers or 9/11 truthers on this forum?

We could be on a flat earth, it just means the laws of physics make for the appearance of a spherical one. More like God playing a prank on us more than anything. Heck i mean, if we never went to the moon, then nuclear weapons probably dont exist either?!

JohnClay said:

That suggests there is day and night simultaneously on the Earth - but the mainstream flat earth theory is compatible with this.

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People do more than just sleep.. in beds.

So the idea that you can interpret that verse to mean day and night are at the same time somewhere on the earth is still a stretch.

JohnClay said:

Yes. To disprove that I am looking for Bible verses.

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You're not going to find any Bible verses signifying clearly and distinctly either way that the Earth is either flat or spherical. At most, all any us us will find are small bits and pieces of Scripture which poetically and/or phenomenologically, and all too briefly, note some small nuance for how the earth or sun or moon move. This tells us essentially NOTHING in a scientific, 21st century mode of reasoning.

In other words, there's not enough detail to indicate for either position simply by reading the Bible all by itself without any input from history, archeology, linguistics or anthropology.

JohnClay said:

That video was saying that God knew that the people were wrong about the earth and heavens, etc, but just decided not to correct them. An alternative explanation is that God agreed with the Bible's writers about the nature of the earth and heavens and underworld that it involved the literal Truth.

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Do you have a date set in the near future by which to interview God about this topic since "His Word" is so very scant on whether the earth is flat or spherical? I'd interview God myself, but I can't seem to find his email address in order to set up a face to face appointment.

JohnClay said:

I see it as a test of character as to whether you think God is showing the Truth about the nature of the earth and the heavens or whether he is allowing people to be misguided though it took until more recent times until people could figure out which is literal and which could be considered figurative.

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This is a mixed assertion and basically illogical at it stands. ............ here's the thing, John, Critical Thinking (and Reason and Logic and Science) don't require anyone to believe much of anything without FIRST analyzing the qualities and characteristics of whatever phenomenon or artifact is of interest.

It seems a little bit less than genuine and inconsistent for you to assert on the one hand that you're here "Exploring Christianity" as someone of "another religion" in order to understand it and believe it, but then on the other hand assert as a presuppositions things for which you don't yet believe. It is not a test of character to think that God is showing the Truth (whatever that is) about the nature of the earth and heavens within a collection of ancient foreign Israelite and/or mainly Jewish texts without having first worked through all of the critical problems that are historically and literally a part of those very same texts.

It is not a 'test of character' for Christians to play stupid in order to show faith. Playing stupid by being simplistic isn't faith----that's merely unjustified credulity.

JohnClay said:

BTW the Greeks believed in a globe so I thought there could have been at least one single verse in the Bible that supports the globe.

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So what, John? What does this have to do with what is in the Bible? Just because the world of Jesus' time became Hellenized doesn't mean every Jewish person in Israel in the 1st century thought the earth was round simply because some Greeks and Romans thought that.

JohnClay said:

If God can't communicate the Truth of the globe how can we trust that other things he says are true. Though I don't believe in all or nothing thinking regarding the existence of God.
Here's a similar argument:

Why Does Creation Matter?

Is creation vital to the authority of Scripture and the gospel, or are we just wasting our time and being divisive—or worse, turning people away from Christ?

answersingenesis.org

“Ultimately, the controversy about the age of the earth is a controversy about the authority of Scripture. If millions of years really happened, then the Bible is false and cannot speak with authority on any issue, even the Gospel.”

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Are you familiar with Informal Logic? Have you heard the term "Slippery Slope Fallacy"? If not, you might want to learn about that fallacy and apply it to the all too common assertion you're bringing up here via Ken Ham and his AnswersInGenesis style of interpretation.

No one who is reasonable has to accept his argument.

In the bible age, the world wasn't fully explored yet. Flat earth questions are asking for the bible to speak of things that do not relate to the people it was sent to. So a real answer will not be formulated since the people it was sent to had various misconceptions that were not important enough to correct as this would distract from the actual message.

Why is Bible not allowed to be wrong? Bible was not dictated by God and is not perfect in every detail or verse.

JohnClay said:

I get the impression that there are no verses in the Bible that contradict that flat earth theory.

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Maybe God kept it a secret until the right time came along?

Deuteronomy 29:29 The secret things belong unto the LORD our God: but those things which are revealed belong unto us and to our children for ever, that we may do all the words of this law.

Daniel 2:22 He revealeth the deep and secret things: he knoweth what is in the darkness, and the light dwelleth with him.

When the right time came, He advanced science enough to ascertain the earth was round.

AV1611VET said:

Maybe God kept it a secret until the right time came along?

Deuteronomy 29:29 The secret things belong unto the LORD our God: but those things which are revealed belong unto us and to our children for ever, that we may do all the words of this law.

Daniel 2:22 He revealeth the deep and secret things: he knoweth what is in the darkness, and the light dwelleth with him.

When the right time came, He advanced science enough to ascertain the earth was round.

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Like also evolution or the age of the Earth?

trophy33 said:

Like also evolution or the age of the Earth?

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Like also anything that would not contradict the Bible.

AV1611VET said:

Like also anything that would not contradict the Bible.

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Why does Bible need to be perfect and never wrong in anything?

I recall prophecies that spoke of giant beasts of metal that were powered by dragons.

Cars are powered by the bones of dragons/dinoaurs via fossil fuels .. however, that was not the point of the message just an identifying mark.