How is it that the Catholic Church is evil?

boughtwithaprice · Jun 7, 2025

Ivan Hlavanda said:
There are things that the Pope says thar are correct, but there are things that are not, to put it nicely.

For example Pope Francis saying that 'all religions are a path to God' is a false Gospel. He removes the exclusivity of Christ alone being the only way to Father.

Calling Pope 'holy father' is another thing that's wrong. There is only one Holy Father and that's Lord God. Christ spoke against calling anyone Father other than God.

Millions upon millions of people every day pray to Mary. They pray to her to save them. They pray to her to protect them. They pray to her to help them, to comfort them, to rescue them, to bring them to heaven, and she has never heard one of those prayers. Ever.

Now tell me if I'm wrong, but isn't this a severe violation of the first commandment, “To have no other gods but the true and living God.” ??

People kiss her image. They kiss her statue. They kiss her picture. They crawl on their knees in penitential pain as some kind of preparation to come before statues of her. They pray to her regularly using the rosary. The rosary is a series of 10 prayers. There are five of the tens, making 50 prayers and there are five prayers in between. The 50 are to Mary, the five are to God. There are five Our Fathers. There are 50 Hail Marys. For every time you pray once to God the Father, you pray 10 times to Mary for five to God, 50 to Mary.

Pope Pius XII accurately reflected the church’s view of the Virgin Mary when the Pope stood up to give this following pontifical prayer –

“Enraptured by the splendor of your heavenly beauty and impelled by the anxieties of the world, we cast ourselves into your arms, O Immaculate Mother of Jesus and our Mother. Mary, we adore and praise the peerless richness of the sublime gifts with which God has filled you above every other mere creature from the moment of conception until the day on which, after your assumption into Heaven, He crowned you Queen of the Universe. O crystal fountain of faith, bathe our hearts with your heavenly perfume! O Conqueress of evil and death, inspire in us a deep horror of sin, which makes the soul detestable to God and a slave of hell! O well-beloved of God, hear the ardent cries which rise up from every heart in this year dedicated to you. Then tenderly, O Mary, cover our aching wound. Convert the wicked, dry the tears of the afflicted and the oppressed, comfort the poor and humble, quench hatred, sweeten harshness, safeguard the flower of purity, protect the holy Church. In your name, resounding harmoniously in heaven, may they recognize that all are brothers, and that the nations are members of one family. Receive, O sweet Mother, our humble supplications, and above all obtain for us on that day, happy with you, that we may repeat before your throne that hymn which is sung today around your altars. You are all-beautiful, O Mary! You are glory, O Mary. You are the joy, you are the honor of our people!”

Now if that is not worship, I don’t know what worship is. And worship belongs to God alone.

Or calling Mary the queen of heaven. There is no queen of heaven. There has never been a queen of heaven. There is most certainly a King of Heaven, the Lord of hosts. He alone rules in heaven. He does not share His rule or His throne or His authority with anyone. The idea that Mary, the mother of Jesus, is the queen of heaven has no scriptural basis whatsoever.

Or calling Mary Lady. There is no Lady, just Lord God.

The Catholic Mass where they sacrifice Lord Jesus again...

Disagreeing that faith alone saves

Disagreeing about Scripture alone

The lost goes on....sadly

We share some Christian beliefs and there certainly are areas of agreement for sure, but there are many other that we disagree with, and we going to call them out.

Interesting perspective. It seems logical, but leaves several questions regarding the scriptures.

If the woman is irrelevant, why be born to her at all? Could not Christ coalesce out of the dust of the Earth as God formed Adam?

Why is Satan the enemy of the woman? What function would she serve if we are to ignore her and serve the king only? Would Satan not just hate Jesus, why concern himself with the woman?

If God wished to have us honor Jesus only, why would He given the command to honor our mother and father? Should it not be honor your father, your mother is irrelevant?

How do we account for Psalm 45 which is clearly about Jesus, yet it says to Him, at your right hand stands the queen in gold of Ophir if there is no queen?

Why would Revelation 12 have the image of a woman clothed with the Sun and the moon under her feet and one her head a crown of twelve stars? Should not have John seen the glory of Jesus only?

Some say the the woman represents the Church, as she is the bride of Christ called to the marriage supper of the lamb. Ok, but we do know that Mary was the first human to touch the body of Christ. He grew inside her and God Himself suckled at her breasts. God also subjected Himself to her as a child.
Jesus does tell us not to marvel at her flesh, rather her obedience. Mary says behold the handmaid of the Lord, be it done to me according to thy word. My soul magnifies the Lord and my spirit rejoices in God my savior. Mary’s last words in scripture are do whatever He tells you
Should we not be at least curious of how she interacted with God for thirty years, if not marvel at the privilege she had above all other people?

The other example in scripture is when Jacob is to receive the blessing from Isaac. He was not ready to receive it outright and had to go to his mother to prepare himself. She gladly assisted him. She did not give the blessing but assisted

Jesus also tells us to be as little children, not as sovereign beings, but children who are under command to honor their father and mother

Seems like an awful lot of trouble to construct this imaging and teaching in scripture to cover some one that is irrelevant. There is more, but this is most of what I can think of for now

Jesus also prayed that we all be one, as He, the Father and Holy Spirt are one. Should we not all treat each other as family, rather than think of Jesus only and ignore everyone else?

How do we reconcile Jesus as sole mediator with the commands to be each others servants and to be one bride at the marriage supper of the lamb?

I understand that you are not Catholic, but is it right to call evil the Catholic way of understanding these scriptures?

Catholics know that Mary is not God, yet we marvel at the great things God has done for her, and all generations call her blessed. How is that evil?

Jerry N. · Jun 7, 2025

bèlla said:
I accept people have different beliefs and the liberty of choosing what they will. But I’m not required to sanction their choices or walk in unity with things I don’t agree with. Nor do I expect them to change. If a path seems right to you walk it out. If another seems better follow that road. But don’t expect everyone to agree with your choices or accept them. It’s unrealistic.

That holds true in the world and the church. You will never have 100% support or agreement on anything. It’s a reflection of free will. You’ll never get everyone to accept everything under the banner of Christ. You’ll always have dissent on something. If every denomination united today the church would split. There are many who wouldn’t sit under that umbrella.

You’re not going to change their mind and you’ll have to accept it. You don’t have to like it of course. But we’ll never come together.

~bella

I agree with most of what you posted, but not that "we’ll never come together." As persecution increases, we will unite but still have different beliefs. One can see Christians, Jews, and Moslems coming together against "woke" nonsense hurting children in many places.

boughtwithaprice · Jun 7, 2025

BobRyan said:
Good question

Eccl 9 says "the living know that they will die, but the dead know nothing" Eccl 9:5
So it would seem to one who dies that they are instantly sent to the 1 Thess 4:1318, Rev 19 appearing of Christ.

But if it is a "long dream state" then the dead might be conscious of being asleep for 1000 years or something like that - a 1000 years of dreams (in the case of those who have been dead for a while). But Phil 1 does not go along with the 1000 years of sleeping idea in my opinion

It is a subject not easily dismissed but requires much contemplation. To live is Christ, to die is gain. I practice anesthesia, and I have had anesthesia myself. The feeling of an anesthetic is almost like teleportation though time. I can only remember going in and the next thing I know I am waking up, though more than an hour has passed. Your theory is at death, we are instantly transported to the end of time at the final judgement with no consciousness of time past.
However, in scripture we see that there is a dream world or separate place of consciousness.
Joseph spoke with an angel in a dream to be told about Mary and Jesus, as well as to flee and return from Egypt. Christ speaks of the bosom of Abraham. The souls of the dead are before the throne of God crying how long will God have wait.
At the transfiguration, Moses, who had died , appeared talking with Christ along with Elijah who had not previously died. Where did they go and where did they come from, if we all have no consciousness until the last day?
Jesus gives us a thought about the separation of body and soul, when at His death He says Father into your hands I commend my spirit. His body lay lifeless, but He had gone to be with the Father.
I do not claim to know definitively what happens at death, but these are spiritual truths that require contemplation and prayer

Peace be with you

Jerry N. · Jun 7, 2025

boughtwithaprice said:
It is a subject not easily dismissed but requires much contemplation. To live is Christ, to die is gain. I practice anesthesia, and I have had anesthesia myself. The feeling of an anesthetic is almost like teleportation though time. I can only remember going in and the next thing I know I am waking up, though more than an hour has passed. Your theory is at death, we are instantly transported to the end of time at the final judgement with no consciousness of time past.
However, in scripture we see that there is a dream world or separate place of consciousness.
Joseph spoke with an angel in a dream to be told about Mary and Jesus, as well as to flee and return from Egypt. Christ speaks of the bosom of Abraham. The souls of the dead are before the throne of God crying how long will God have wait.
At the transfiguration, Moses, who had died , appeared talking with Christ along with Elijah who had not previously died. Where did they go and where did they come from, if we all have no consciousness until the last day?
Jesus gives us a thought about the separation of body and soul, when at His death He says Father into your hands I commend my spirit. His body lay lifeless, but He had gone to be with the Father.
I do not claim to know definitively what happens at death, but these are spiritual truths that require contemplation and prayer

Peace be with you

Maybe the dead wake up from time to time, like Samuel. I can't remember the last time I slept all night.

Valletta · Jun 7, 2025

Kathleen30 said:
The oath has always been contested.Some say a fabrication others says it’s real and true. But when considering that the Jesuits have lived up to the reputation of the oath, being kicked of some 80 places be they states of countries including many Roman Catholic ones and even being suppressed by a pope for a time does leave much to be desired. And of the council of Trent. The authority of that still sands upon every Protestants head today m. Why should we trust you if it be peace that you seek while that remains ? View attachment 366005 View attachment 366005 View attachment 366006 View attachment 366006

The oath was debunked long ago, it's one of many, many fabricated stories. It's not in any of the almost 2000 years of Catholic documents, it's not in any Jesuit historical documents. It's just a hoax, one of MANY, that was perpetrated during the time of bitterness between Catholics and Protestants. Realize that when Protestants seized control the Jesuit order, one of many Catholic orders, happened to be there in the British Isles, and Jesuits were persecuted for continuing to try and say the mass and a number were martyred. They stood up for their faith and directly opposed new Protestant teachings

As to your other material take them one at time. Catholic Councils make declarations or reaffirm was is already believed. As to Sacred Tradition and Sacred Scripture, the Word of God has always carried equal weight with the Catholic Church, none in conflict with the other, none superior or inferior. Whether passed down orally or written. For early Christianity there was no Bible, the Catholic Church existed before one word of the New Testament was written. Once the Catholic Church chose the books of the Bible and approved those books, it was decided the Bible was God-breathed and was considered of equal weight with the rest of the Word of God. Never was any of God's Word, passed down through the Apostles, abandoned by the Catholic Church once the Bible was finalized. Never were any books dropped by Catholics, we have the same original 73 books in the same order as in the late 300s. Sola Scriptura was not in existence for most of Christianity.

bèlla · Jun 7, 2025

Jerry N. said:
I agree with most of what you posted, but not that "we’ll never come together." As persecution increases, we will unite but still have different beliefs. One can see Christians, Jews, and Moslems coming together against "woke" nonsense hurting children in many places.

Many groups work together for shared concerns but they’re not wholly united and moving as a unit permanently. And persecution isn’t a byproduct for trust and togetherness. If anything people will be more skeptical than not given the advances in our technology. I’m not welcoming anyone willy nilly just because they said they love Jesus.

There was a recent scandal involving a popular individual that went viral last month. Shannon Sharpe was accused of sexual assault by a woman he was seeing for three years. And when civil suit was revealed we discovered that she had been recording him the entire time without his knowledge.

If you believe we won’t be infiltrated and have similar people doing the same you’re naive. Every group the government has taken down usually occurs from within. And I fully expect we’ll have our share of wolves working for the other. While you reference persecution you forget this isn’t the eighties and it will look differently than expected.

We have drones flying in the air, robodogs and humanoid robots functioning as police as we speak, and a ball rolling around in China doing the same. We have cameras along our streets and listening devices too. You won’t be hard to find so you’d better make sure the people around you are trustworthy. That’s the reality of persecution in the modern age.

That‘s why you have to understand times and seasons and make preparations in advance. You’ll be hard pressed to get rid of anyone in that period because you’re afraid they’ll turn on you. So you get your house in order while it‘s calm and examine your connections and make adjustments where needed. Those are the ones you’ll rely on. And I’ve already done that.

I don’t talk about the end times; I live with it in mind and make preparations as I go. That’s a lesson I learned from a nursery rhyme that was validated during the pandemic. There were a lot of people who expected many things from the church and their fellow believers that were sorely disappointed. They never expected to be ignored or left behind. And if you read the room correctly you got the message. It’s easy to talk of brotherhood when times are good. But adversity is a truth serum.

If you can’t be there for one another during a crisis. Why would I expect you to do otherwise in something worse? It’s more than words just like the songwriter said. It’s the things you do that show you care.

~bella

Kathleen30 · Jun 7, 2025

Valletta said:
The oath was debunked long ago, it's one of many, many fabricated stories. It's not in any of the almost 2000 years of Catholic documents, it's not in any Jesuit historical documents. It's just a hoax, one of MANY, that was perpetrated during the time of bitterness between Catholics and Protestants. Realize that when Protestants seized control the Jesuit order, one of many Catholic orders, happened to be there in the British Isles, and Jesuits were persecuted for continuing to try and say the mass and a number were martyred. They stood up for their faith and directly opposed new Protestant teachings

As to your other material take them one at time. Catholic Councils make declarations or reaffirm was is already believed. As to Sacred Tradition and Sacred Scripture, the Word of God has always carried equal weight with the Catholic Church, none in conflict with the other, none superior or inferior. Whether passed down orally or written. For early Christianity there was no Bible, the Catholic Church existed before one word of the New Testament was written. Once the Catholic Church chose the books of the Bible and approved those books, it was decided the Bible was God-breathed and was considered of equal weight with the rest of the Word of God. Never was any of God's Word, passed down through the Apostles, abandoned by the Catholic Church once the Bible was finalized. Never were any books dropped by Catholics, we have the same original 73 books in the same order as in the late 300s. Sola Scriptura was not in existence for most of Christianity.

Again you say the Jesuit oath is a fabrication . Yet everything in the oath the jesuits have done by cloak poison and dagger all the way up dethroning kings and kingdoms that chose not to submit. And even if a fake it one might forgery of fact and truth . That is if it be a fake of course. . As to the Bible being finalised by the Roman Catholic Church. The Roman Catholic Church never came into being officially until the 6th or 7th century Are you not forgetting the Byzantine church they had the full Bible in print centuries earlier. Or is it only the Roman Catholic Church that speaks for all of Christendom on the matter of the Bible ? Perhaps therein lies the problem with Rome it can tolerate no other religion .

Kathleen30 · Jun 7, 2025

You than speak of the persecutions in England the persecution went either way be it by Catholic or Protestant alike depending on the king or the queen in power. But I guess with many attempted assassination attempts on Queen Elizabeth by your Jesuit friends and how could we forget the gun powder plot that tried to blow up king James and the entire parliament to kingdom come. You might just think upon that . There was good reason for for crack down on Catholics in England. And it wasn’t just merely for being law abiding Catholics as you try make out.

Ivan Hlavanda · Jun 7, 2025

boughtwithaprice said:
If the woman is irrelevant, why be born to her at all? Could not Christ coalesce out of the dust of the Earth as God formed Adam?

I didn't say Mary is irrelevant, because she is not. She is richly blessed, I am not denying that.

The problem is when people make Mary something she is not. People praying to her is bad, really bad. People make statutes of her, kiss her, pray for protection etc.

I posted a prayer from pope in mi first pope. If that prayer isn't a huge red flag, then I don't know what is.

Given Mary titles such as queen of heaven, and lady is unbiblical to say the least.

boughtwithaprice said:
If God wished to have us honor Jesus only, why would He given the command to honor our mother and father? Should it not be honor your father, your mother is irrelevant?

Honour and worship are two different things. Worship belongs to God alone. Given worship to anyone else is idolatry. Prayer is a part of worship and it belongs to God alone. See the Lord's prayer, it starts with 'our Father' because that's how we ought to pray.

Besides, honour your father and mother. Mary is not your mother.

boughtwithaprice said:
Why would Revelation 12 have the image of a woman clothed with the Sun and the moon under her feet and one her head a crown of twelve stars? Should not have John seen the glory of Jesus only?

Scripture is interpreted by Scripture. Now let's Scripture interpret who the woman in Rev 12 is.
Note the similarity between this description and the description that Joseph gave of his father Jacob (Israel) and his mother and their children
Genesis 37 9 Then he dreamed another dream and told it to his brothers and said, “Behold, I have dreamed another dream. Behold, the sun, the moon, and eleven stars were bowing down to me.” 10 But when he told it to his father and to his brothers, his father rebuked him and said to him, “What is this dream that you have dreamed? Shall I and your mother and your brothers indeed come to bow ourselves to the ground before you?” 11 And his brothers were jealous of him, but his father kept the saying in mind.
The twelve stars refer to the twelve tribes of Israel. So the woman in Rev 12 is Israel.

boughtwithaprice said:
Ok, but we do know that Mary was the first human to touch the body of Christ. He grew inside her and God Himself suckled at her breasts.

And? That does not make it right for people to pray to her, to call for her protection. It's very disturbing when people do that.

boughtwithaprice said:
but is it right to call evil the Catholic way of understanding these scriptures?

Many of the Catholic teaching are against God's Word. I gave you several examples already in my first answer.

Valletta · Jun 7, 2025

Kathleen30 said:
Again you say the Jesuit oath is a fabrication . Yet everything in the oath the jesuits have done by cloak poison and dagger all the way up dethroning kings and kingdoms that chose not to submit. And even if a fake it one might forgery of fact and truth . That is if it be a fake of course. . As to the Bible being finalised by the Roman Catholic Church. The Roman Catholic Church never came into being officially until the 6th or 7th century Are you not forgetting the Byzantine church they had the full Bible in print centuries earlier. Or is it only the Roman Catholic Church that speaks for all of Christendom on the matter of the Bible ? Perhaps therein lies the problem with Rome it can tolerate no other religion .

I am unaware of kings and kingdoms being dethroned by the Jesuit order. Did anyone tell you the names of these kings and kingdoms and describe how this was done? As to the Bible, the process of the Catholic Church choosing the 73 books of the Bible spanned centuries. Lists became closer to the final 73 selected by the Catholic Church as time passed. Revelation was the last NT book chosen. Saint Athanasius is credited with the first New Testament Biblical canon list in 367 A.D. The list was approved by Pope Damasus, and formally approved of by Councils at Hippo and Carthage in the late 300s. Pope Innocent I wrote a letter to the Bishop of Toulouse in 405 A.D. containing the list. Finally, Catholics are extremely tolerant of other religions.

RileyG · Jun 7, 2025

BobRyan said:
Communion with the dead - 958 under the heading of Paragraph 5. The Communion of Saints

946 After confessing "the holy catholic Church," the Apostles' Creed adds "the communion of saints." In a certain sense this article is a further explanation of the preceding: "What is the Church if not the assembly of all the saints?"477 The communion of saints is the Church.

947 "Since all the faithful form one body, the good of each is communicated to the others.... We must therefore believe that there exists a communion of goods in the Church. But the most important member is Christ, since he is the head.... Therefore, the riches of Christ are communicated to all the members, through the sacraments."478 "As this Church is governed by one and the same Spirit, all the goods she has received necessarily become a common fund."479

948 The term "communion of saints" therefore has two closely linked meanings: communion in holy things (sancta)" and "among holy persons (sancti)."
Sancta sanctis! ("God's holy gifts for God's holy people") is proclaimed by the celebrant in most Eastern liturgies during the elevation of the holy Gifts before the distribution of communion. The faithful (sancti) are fed by Christ's holy body and blood (sancta) to grow in the communion of the Holy Spirit (koinonia) and to communicate it to the world.

958 Communion with the dead. "In full consciousness of this communion of the whole Mystical Body of Jesus Christ, the Church in its pilgrim members, from the very earliest days of the Christian religion, has honored with great respect the memory of the dead; and 'because it is a holy and a wholesome thought to pray for the dead that they may be loosed from their sins' she offers her suffrages for them."498 Our prayer for them is capable not only of helping them, but also of making their intercession for us effective.

Ahhhh, so praying for the dead and/or asking for their prayers is what you meant? Thanks for clarifying!

God bless you

Kathleen30 · Jun 8, 2025

Valletta said:
I am unaware of kings and kingdoms being dethroned by the Jesuit order. Did anyone tell you the names of these kings and kingdoms and describe how this was done? As to the Bible, the process of the Catholic Church choosing the 73 books of the Bible spanned centuries. Lists became closer to the final 73 selected by the Catholic Church as time passed. Revelation was the last NT book chosen. Saint Athanasius is credited with the first New Testament Biblical canon list in 367 A.D. The list was approved by Pope Damasus, and formally approved of by Councils at Hippo and Carthage in the late 300s. Pope Innocent I wrote a letter to the Bishop of Toulouse in 405 A.D. containing the list. Finally, Catholics are extremely tolerant of other religions.

Valletta I’ve already given you two examples with the attempted assassinations of queen Elizabeth and King James. If you want more you only have to look at the many wars that took place in Europe with counter reformation. The sole purpose for the Jesuits originally coming into being was to undermine the reformation . They were originally classified as a military intelligentsia for the Roman Catholic Church.

Jerry N. · Jun 8, 2025

bèlla said:
Many groups work together for shared concerns but they’re not wholly united and moving as a unit permanently. And persecution isn’t a byproduct for trust and togetherness. If anything people will be more skeptical than not given the advances in our technology. I’m not welcoming anyone willy nilly just because they said they love Jesus.

There was a recent scandal involving a popular individual that went viral last month. Shannon Sharpe was accused of sexual assault by a woman he was seeing for three years. And when civil suit was revealed we discovered that she had been recording him the entire time without his knowledge.

If you believe we won’t be infiltrated and have similar people doing the same you’re naive. Every group the government has taken down usually occurs from within. And I fully expect we’ll have our share of wolves working for the other. While you reference persecution you forget this isn’t the eighties and it will look differently than expected.

We have drones flying in the air, robodogs and humanoid robots functioning as police as we speak, and a ball rolling around in China doing the same. We have cameras along our streets and listening devices too. You won’t be hard to find so you’d better make sure the people around you are trustworthy. That’s the reality of persecution in the modern age.

That‘s why you have to understand times and seasons and make preparations in advance. You’ll be hard pressed to get rid of anyone in that period because you’re afraid they’ll turn on you. So you get your house in order while it‘s calm and examine your connections and make adjustments where needed. Those are the ones you’ll rely on. And I’ve already done that.

I don’t talk about the end times; I live with it in mind and make preparations as I go. That’s a lesson I learned from a nursery rhyme that was validated during the pandemic. There were a lot of people who expected many things from the church and their fellow believers that were sorely disappointed. They never expected to be ignored or left behind. And if you read the room correctly you got the message. It’s easy to talk of brotherhood when times are good. But adversity is a truth serum.

If you can’t be there for one another during a crisis. Why would I expect you to do otherwise in something worse? It’s more than words just like the songwriter said. It’s the things you do that show you care.

~bella

One way to look at things is that there is a sorting of Christians and people in general. The divisions are becoming more and more obvious, as can be easily seen on this forum. We do often unite against a common threat and put aside differences when needed. However, we will always have “our share of wolves” working against us without our knowledge. Judas walked with Jesus, heard His words, and saw the miracles, but there is no indication that the other 11 suspected anything. I just think that minor doctrines will not be the dividing factor. Something deeper will hold believers together.

When it comes to depending on each other in the greatest need, we can only hope for the best. I’ve always had difficulty in determining who are actual friends. Christians have done me wrong many times, but so have non-Christians. There have also been times when I was in serious trouble, and strangers have come from seemingly nowhere and helped in ways I never would have expected. I give credit to both God and them. If you have a circle of friends you can count on when hard times come, praise God.

I used to think about prepping, but it never went very far, since I live on a farm nearly in the middle of nowhere. There is not much to prep and nowhere to go. When war in Ukraine broke out, we did stock up on food and items to trade. We live fairly close to Ukraine.

bèlla · Jun 8, 2025

Jerry N. said:
One way to look at things is that there is a sorting of Christians and people in general. The divisions are becoming more and more obvious, as can be easily seen on this forum.

There is a dearth of intelligence in our society today. Many are incapable of deduction and separating true from false. They’re wedded to their favorite personality, politician, pastor, etc. and believe what they hear without concern. When adversity strikes the most important thing you must do is keep your head and it‘s the first thing that goes. That‘s why you study how people respond to setbacks and pressure. You see what they do when they don‘t get their way or others oppose them.

What you see in the moment is what you’ll experience when times are hard. And you want a general in your ranks. Someone levelheaded who isn’t overly emotional and impulsive. A person who isn’t reckless and can process events rationally. You’ll have enough stress already. Steadiness is an unsung quality and the majority will be otherwise.

Jerry N. said:
When it comes to depending on each other in the greatest need, we can only hope for the best. I’ve always had difficulty in determining who are actual friends. Christians have done me wrong many times, but so have non-Christians. There have also been times when I was in serious trouble, and strangers have come from seemingly nowhere and helped in ways I never would have expected. I give credit to both God and them. If you have a circle of friends you can count on when hard times come, praise God.

Your experience is common and many would say the same. That’s why we weigh their character and actions against the fruit. I never hope for the best in anything. I plan for it and let God do the rest.

Jerry N. said:
I used to think about prepping, but it never went very far, since I live on a farm nearly in the middle of nowhere. There is not much to prep and nowhere to go. When war in Ukraine broke out, we did stock up on food and items to trade. We live fairly close to Ukraine.

I believe it’s important for everyone to do their part and what that entails is individual. Most Americans aren’t preppers or self-sufficient or moving in that direction. The average person doesn’t have six months of food in their home to sustain them without replenishing. Let alone a year or more. Christians couldn’t feed one another exclusively because it‘s not enough surplus and I’ve run the numbers. Nor is the demographic that has extra stocking with the community in mind. The majority have enough for themselves and their loved ones and they’re usually the only ones who are in their family.

When people say God will provide they forget that people die everyday of hunger, without shelter or the medicines the require and more. Human suffering continues in spite of His provision and some will perish. I used to advise people to walk around their neighborhood and look at the yards and count the neighbors who had gardens and note their size. If they’re few and far between you’re probably drawing from the same source and that has limitations. It’s a sobering reality check for many.

That’s why the bible tells us to work while the day is here because night is coming. We have parables about the ants for a reason. When we had our lockdowns the churches were closed. That‘s the wrinkle no one imagined. You were on your own for the most part unless you had a strong support network. We had hotlines where you could make anonymous reports about gatherings beyond allowed amounts. Who do you think reported them in light of the arguments we saw in this space about masks, vaccines and politics?

I hope things calm in your neck of the woods and the Lord protects you and your loved ones. God bless.

~bella

Kathleen30 · Jun 8, 2025

Kathleen30 said:
Valletta said:

I am unaware of kings and kingdoms being dethroned by the Jesuit order. Did anyone tell you the names of these kings and kingdoms and describe how this was done? As to the Bible, the process of the Catholic Church choosing the 73 books of the Bible spanned centuries. Lists became closer to the final 73 selected by the Catholic Church as time passed. Revelation was the last NT book chosen. Saint Athanasius is credited with the first New Testament Biblical canon list in 367 A.D. The list was approved by Pope Damasus, and formally approved of by Councils at Hippo and Carthage in the late 300s. Pope Innocent I wrote a letter to the Bishop of Toulouse in 405 A.D. containing the list. Finally, Catholics are extremely tolerant of other religions.

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As to the choosing of the books that belonged in the Bible that was decided long before the Roman Catholic Church officially came into being which was under pope Gregory 590-604 AD. I’m not even sure if they had popes prior to that . They had bishops that looked over certian provinces . You had the bishop of Alexandria the bishop Antioch the bishop of Constantinople and you had the bishop of Rome. All those dates you mention are prior to the formation of the official Roman Catholic Church. Yes the Roman Catholic people be very tolerate to others but the inner workings of their religion be a different story. When thinking upon the Bible . Constantine had already ordered 50 Bibles for his new capital at Constantinople so they had a good idea of what belonged along with some refining through the centuries

boughtwithaprice · Jun 8, 2025

Kathleen30 said:
Valletta I’ve already given you two examples with the attempted assassinations of queen Elizabeth and King James. If you want more you only have to look at the many wars that took place in Europe with counter reformation. The sole purpose for the Jesuits originally coming into being was to undermine the reformation . They were originally classified as a military intelligentsia for the Roman Catholic Church.

Have you read St Ignatius of Loyola ? He is the founder of the Jesuits. With all due respect, if you do not read and quote him, then you are believing rumors and accusations. History is full of conflict and strife. A Christian denies themself and looks for the actual cause aka the truth and does not seek to lay blame in a casual manner
If the Jesuits are to blame, you will find it in the writings of their founder

Jerry N. · Jun 8, 2025

bèlla said:
There is a dearth of intelligence in our society today. Many are incapable of deduction and separating true from false. They’re wedded to their favorite personality, politician, pastor, etc. and believe what they hear without concern. When adversity strikes the most important thing you must do is keep your head and it‘s the first thing that goes. That‘s why you study how people respond to setbacks and pressure. You see what they do when they don‘t get their way or others oppose them.

What you see in the moment is what you’ll experience when times are hard. And you want a general in your ranks. Someone levelheaded who isn’t overly emotional and impulsive. A person who isn’t reckless and can process events rationally. You’ll have enough stress already. Steadiness is an unsung quality and the majority will be otherwise.

Your experience is common and many would say the same. That’s why we weigh their character and actions against the fruit. I never hope for the best in anything. I plan for it and let God do the rest.

I believe it’s important for everyone to do their part and what that entails is individual. Most Americans aren’t preppers or self-sufficient or moving in that direction. The average person doesn’t have six months of food in their home to sustain them without replenishing. Let alone a year or more. Christians couldn’t feed one another exclusively because it‘s not enough surplus and I’ve run the numbers. Nor is the demographic that has extra stocking with the community in mind. The majority have enough for themselves and their loved ones and they’re usually the only ones who are in their family.

When people say God will provide they forget that people die everyday of hunger, without shelter or the medicines the require and more. Human suffering continues in spite of His provision and some will perish. I used to advise people to walk around their neighborhood and look at the yards and count the neighbors who had gardens and note their size. If they’re few and far between you’re probably drawing from the same source and that has limitations. It’s a sobering reality check for many.

That’s why the bible tells us to work while the day is here because night is coming. We have parables about the ants for a reason. When we had our lockdowns the churches were closed. That‘s the wrinkle no one imagined. You were on your own for the most part unless you had a strong support network. We had hotlines where you could make anonymous reports about gatherings beyond allowed amounts. Who do you think reported them in light of the arguments we saw in this space about masks, vaccines and politics?

I hope things calm in your neck of the woods and the Lord protects you and your loved ones. God bless.

~bella

We have drifted far off topic, but I enjoy your posts. Until I stopped sheep farming because of my health, we always had food for a year. Now, it is probably three months at best. The two problems that cannot be easily solved are medications and protection. People fleeing the big cities would tend to come here, and firearms are next to impossible to get legally. Medications are only sold in small quantities, and my wife is very dependent on them. Nonetheless, neither of us would live very long if society collapsed. So, after doing what we can, trusting God to do the rest is the best we can hope for. Of course, if I were younger, I would have a less relaxed outlook.

On the topic, there has been a gradual change in Roman Catholics. My wife and I are probably the only non-Catholics for miles around. Many years ago, we would have been heretics to many people around us; now, we are just unusual. Many Catholics around here are focused on doing right and treating people well. It is generally the people who aggressively reject the Roman Church that are less than kind. Among non-believing Catholics, they follow the social norms of their parents and grandparents. This will change in a generation or two. Tradition Catholics are increasing all of the time. I’m told that there are more and more Latin Masses.

Valletta · Jun 8, 2025

Kathleen30 said:
As to the choosing of the books that belonged in the Bible that was decided long before the Roman Catholic Church officially came into being which was under pope Gregory 590-604 AD. I’m not even sure if they had popes prior to that . They had bishops that looked over certian provinces . You had the bishop of Alexandria the bishop Antioch the bishop of Constantinople and you had the bishop of Rome. All those dates you mention are prior to the formation of the official Roman Catholic Church. Yes the Roman Catholic people be very tolerate to others but the inner workings of their religion be a different story. When thinking upon the Bible . Constantine had already ordered 50 Bibles for his new capital at Constantinople so they had a good idea of what belonged along with some refining through the centuries

There is no "official Roman Catholic Church," the Catholic Church (and "catholic" means "universal") began when Jesus founded the Church. "Roman" is one of the rites of the Catholic Church, it is the largest rite but there are others. Books for the mass differed from area to area, while the Gospels were widely accepted there were some difference and the Catholic Church wanted only God-breathed books to be used for readings at the mass. Although "bibles" are referred to under Constantine, as I've said the lists became closer to the final 73 selected by the Catholic Church as time passed, and the "bibles" under Constantine in the early 300s were getting much closer to the final canon decided upon the the Catholic Church later in the century. Saint Athanasius is credited with the first New Testament Biblical canon list in 367 A.D. The list was approved by Pope Damasus, and formally approved of by Councils at Hippo and Carthage in the late 300s. Pope Innocent I wrote a letter to the Bishop of Toulouse in 405 A.D. containing the list. After Latin surpassed Greek as the common language of the people, the Latin Vulgate under the direction of Saint Jerome from 383 to 404 A.D. became by far the standard Bible. "Vulgate" comes from "vulgar" or "common," meaning the common language of the people. Pope Saint Gregory the Great was the 64th pope.

Valletta · Jun 8, 2025

Kathleen30 said:
Valletta I’ve already given you two examples with the attempted assassinations of queen Elizabeth and King James. If you want more you only have to look at the many wars that took place in Europe with counter reformation. The sole purpose for the Jesuits originally coming into being was to undermine the reformation . They were originally classified as a military intelligentsia for the Roman Catholic Church.

Early Modern Variations on the Theme of Complicity: How Jesuits Came to Be Linked with Regicide

Early Modern Variations on the Theme of Complicity: How Jesuits Came to Be Linked with Regicide

Abstract In the long history of anti-Jesuitism, the accusation that the Society of Jesus endorsed assassination and used it as a means to pursue its goals hardened into one of the recurring topoi that were repeatedly invoked to malign the order. However, the Society was clearly not born with...

brill.com

Even the anti-Catholic Britannica has a link with reality:

Popish Plot | Catholic, James II & Exclusion Crisis | Britannica

Popish Plot, (1678), in English history, a totally fictitious but widely believed plot in which it was alleged that Jesuits were planning the assassination of King Charles II in order to bring his Roman Catholic brother, the Duke of York (afterward King James II), to the throne. The allegations

www.britannica.com

bèlla · Jun 8, 2025

Jerry N. said:
Nonetheless, neither of us would live very long if society collapsed. So, after doing what we can, trusting God to do the rest is the best we can hope for. Of course, if I were younger, I would have a less relaxed outlook.

That’s challenging for sure. Have you looked into alternative options too? Natural remedies have a place and pain management is possible through other methods when needed. And age is an important factor as you’ve noted. It’s better to start when you’re young when possible.

Jerry N. said:
On the topic, there has been a gradual change in Roman Catholics. My wife and I are probably the only non-Catholics for miles around. Many years ago, we would have been heretics to many people around us; now, we are just unusual. Many Catholics around here are focused on doing right and treating people well. It is generally the people who aggressively reject the Roman Church that are less than kind. Among non-believing Catholics, they follow the social norms of their parents and grandparents. This will change in a generation or two. Tradition Catholics are increasing all of the time. I’m told that there are more and more Latin Masses.

Overall, we‘re experiencing a decline in church attendance and a rise of nones. Many people are following ministries and teachings online and that’s their avenue for spiritual nourishment. I have no personal grievance with catholics and you can’t dictate someone’s relationship with God. But I’m not going to mass or involving myself in their practices nor do I visit other churches. The person determines the sacredness of the pulpit not the other way around. It isn’t holy by default. We all have a spirit within us and that’s what determines its sancity.

~bella

How is it that the Catholic Church is evil?

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Early Modern Variations on the Theme of Complicity: How Jesuits Came to Be Linked with Regicide​

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Early Modern Variations on the Theme of Complicity: How Jesuits Came to Be Linked with Regicide