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One Will Be Taken And The Other Left.

bniffty24

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Matthew 24.39 - That is how it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. Two men will be in the field; one will be taken and the other left. Two women will be grinding with a hand mill; one will be taken and the other left.

Do you think this will include planes falling out of the skies , cars and other vehicles crashing into one another etc.
Because I had some awful thoughts about this. What if one day I'm driving my family or friends somewhere and I'm the only Christian in the car.........
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Gregory Thompson

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For that to occur we would have to know when Jesus is coming back , and no man knoweth the day or hour.
But nice try btw.....:oldthumbsup:
Humour is not for everyone. For them to pass such a law, a certain level of faith would be required.
 
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RandyPNW

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Matthew 24.39 - That is how it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. Two men will be in the field; one will be taken and the other left. Two women will be grinding with a hand mill; one will be taken and the other left.

Do you think this will include planes falling out of the skies , cars and other vehicles crashing into one another etc.
Because I had some awful thoughts about this. What if one day I'm driving my family or friends somewhere and I'm the only Christian in the car.........
No, I think the Rapture movies are silly. I think there will be a time when Christians disappear suddenly yes. But it will be at a time when there will be relatively few committed Christians on earth who live out their Christian lives. This may be already true to some extent.

Christ will come at Armageddon, which I believe will be during a world war that has gone nuclear. It means entire cities will fall in an hour, as Revelation describes it. Who cares who is driving the car at a time like this? God will have every single Christian right where He wants them at that moment in time. Nobody knows exactly when that moment will arrive, but God will certainly know and have us exactly where He wants us.

The "one taken and one left" Scripture is completely taken out of context by many Dispensationalists and other Futurists (I do consider myself a Futurist, however). Both entitites are under judgment by the ancient Romans in the invasion of Israel in 70 AD. The Romans took some away into captivity and others were left to man the fields on behalf of the Roman soldiers. Both groups were under judgment.

Jesus was asked where these will be "taken?" He said they would be taken where the eagles, or vultures, gather. This represented the coming of the Romans to Jerusalem. It was from there the Jews were taken away, or deported, to other places. They would be destroyed in Jerusalem or taken away. Those left would be left as slaves. This is *not* the Rapture!
 
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mourningdove~

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Matthew 24.39 - That is how it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. Two men will be in the field; one will be taken and the other left. Two women will be grinding with a hand mill; one will be taken and the other left.

Do you think this will include planes falling out of the skies , cars and other vehicles crashing into one another etc.
Because I had some awful thoughts about this. What if one day I'm driving my family or friends somewhere and I'm the only Christian in the car.........
I've watched the rapture movies, so I can easily imagine the scenario like you describe it.

And I don't know quite where I stand on rapture theology these days ...
I've heard alot of argument for it, and then the other side, too.

Decades back, the rapture was spoken of often.
Now, so many seem to just mock the idea.
I really don't know ... though it does sound pretty great at times, to get swiftly delivered out of here! (lol)

I think the key is ... to always 'be ready'.
 
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Spiritual Jew

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Matthew 24.39 - That is how it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. Two men will be in the field; one will be taken and the other left. Two women will be grinding with a hand mill; one will be taken and the other left.

Do you think this will include planes falling out of the skies , cars and other vehicles crashing into one another etc.
Because I had some awful thoughts about this. What if one day I'm driving my family or friends somewhere and I'm the only Christian in the car.........
It will include Jesus destroying all unbelievers on the earth.

Please follow what Jesus taught here in relation to what will happen when He comes again.

Luke 17:26 “Just as it was in the days of Noah, so also will it be in the days of the Son of Man. 27 People were eating, drinking, marrying and being given in marriage up to the day Noah entered the ark. Then the flood came and destroyed them all. 28 “It was the same in the days of Lot. People were eating and drinking, buying and selling, planting and building. 29 But the day Lot left Sodom, fire and sulfur rained down from heaven and destroyed them all. 30 “It will be just like this on the day the Son of Man is revealed. 31 On that day no one who is on the housetop, with possessions inside, should go down to get them. Likewise, no one in the field should go back for anything. 32 Remember Lot’s wife! 33 Whoever tries to keep their life will lose it, and whoever loses their life will preserve it. 34 I tell you, on that night two people will be in one bed; one will be taken and the other left. 35 Two women will be grinding grain together; one will be taken and the other left.” [36] 37 “Where, Lord?” they asked. He replied, “Where there is a dead body, there the vultures will gather.

NIV note about Luke 17:36. "Some manuscripts include here words similar to Matthew 24:40."

Let's start at the beginning to see what Jesus taught in this passage. First, in verses 26 and 27, He talks about the days leading up to His second coming being similar to the days of Noah that preceded the flood. Then He points out that "the flood came and destroyed them all". All who were left behind outside the ark were destroyed, in other words. Then He points out similar things about the days of Lot in comparison to the days leading up to the second coming of Christ and He again points out that all unbelievers who were not taken out from Sodom like Lot and his family were left behind in the city and were destroyed by fire.

Then Jesus points out that no one should try to save their possessions because it will be too late for anyone to do that and anyone doing that is too attached to the world and their life in this world instead of being focused on eternity and being with Jesus like they should be. Lot's wife is given as an example of how we can't be too attached to this world and our lives in this world. That is unacceptable to God for us to love our lives in this world more than we love Him. Lot's wife paid the price for loving the world and her life in this world more than God and that's a warning for everyone.

Then Jesus, using Lot's wife as an example, said that those who want to keep their life, like Lot's wife did, will lose it (will be killed) and whoever loses their life (is willing to give up their lives for God) will preserve it (will be spared and not killed).

Then we get to verse 34 where Jesus gives examples of two people being together with one being taken and one left. Those verses, in and of themselves, tell us nothing about what happens to those taken and to those left, but we can figure that out from the previous verses that speak of events where some were taken away and escaped God's wrath and some were left behind and did not escape His wrath, like in Noah and Lot's days. From those events, regardless of what it means to be taken and what it means to be left (there is some disagreement about that), we know that it means all people either survive Christ's second coming or they are killed. The ones who are left behind on the earth do not survive to face tribulation as pre-tribs believe. They are killed just as those left behind out of the ark were all killed and those left behind in Sodom were all killed.

Some people think the question the disciples asked at that point ("Where, Lord?") is related to where those who are taken are taken to, but I disagree with that. I think they are just asking where it will take place that one is taken and one is left and Jesus is saying it will happen wherever a dead body is found. Since His second coming is a global event, His answer to the question is basically "everywhere" since unbelievers all over the world will suffer His wrath and vengeance when He comes (2 Thessalonians 1:7-10, 2 Peter 3:10-12).

So, this passage is a problem for pre-tribs who think those left behind survive to live another day and then have to face "the tribulation". No, they do not. They will be killed.

I believe this passage is also a problem for most premills because it doesn't leave any mortals to populate the earth when Jesus returns. We know those who are taken up to meet the Lord will be changed and have immortal bodies. As I showed here, those left behind are all killed. So, who exactly would the mortals be that populate the earth for a thousand years after His return in this case? It wouldn't be possible based on what Jesus taught.
 
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2PhiloVoid

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Matthew 24.39 - That is how it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. Two men will be in the field; one will be taken and the other left. Two women will be grinding with a hand mill; one will be taken and the other left.

Do you think this will include planes falling out of the skies , cars and other vehicles crashing into one another etc.
Because I had some awful thoughts about this. What if one day I'm driving my family or friends somewhere and I'm the only Christian in the car.........
.View attachment 365918

Rather than assuming Matthew 24:39 Matthew 24:40 has anything to do with an insinuated 'rapture,' I take the interpretive view of the late F.F. Bruce and read this verse as a prophetic pronouncement by Jesus about the eventual incursion of Jerusalem by the Romans in A.D. 70.

The point of this verse is to indicate that those who would heed what Jesus and the Church had been saying for four decades prior to A.D. 70 would be the ones to get up immediately and flee the land. Others would ignore the prophetic message and stay, being caught in the oncoming wave of Roman soldiers.
 
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Clare73

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No, I think the Rapture movies are silly. I think there will be a time when Christians disappear suddenly yes.
The "catching up" (harpazo) of the saints (1 Th 4:16-17) occurs at the second coming with the resurrection of all mankind at the end of time.
After the resurrection, all the saints are caught up to meet the Lord in the air and accompany him back to earth (parousia) where they will assist in the Judgment (1 Co 6:2).
 
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Spiritual Jew

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Rather than assuming Matthew 24:39 has anything to do with an insinuated 'rapture,' I take the interpretive view of the late F.F. Bruce and read this verse as a prophetic pronouncement by Jesus about the eventual incursion of Jerusalem by the Romans in A.D. 70.

The point of this verse is to indicate that those who would heed what Jesus and the Church had been saying for four decades prior to A.D. 70 would be the ones to get up immediately and flee the land. Others would ignore the prophetic message and stay, being caught in the oncoming wave of Roman soldiers.
What does fleeing have to do with either being taken or left? Those in Judea who fled to the mountains as Jesus instructed before the Roman armies destroyed Jerusalem were neither taken nor were left.

What Jesus was saying is that there would be two people together side by side when He comes and then one of them would be taken and the other left. That does not describe what happened in 70 AD at all. When the Roman armies came to destroy Jerusalem, the believers had already fled, so there was no scenario at that time of two people being together with one being taken and one left.
 
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2PhiloVoid

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What does fleeing have to do with either being taken or left? Those in Judea who fled to the mountains as Jesus instructed before the Roman armies destroyed Jerusalem were neither taken nor were left.

What Jesus was saying is that there would be two people together side by side when He comes and then one of them would be taken and the other left. That does not describe what happened in 70 AD at all. When the Roman armies came to destroy Jerusalem, the believers had already fled, so there was no scenario at that time of two people being together with one being taken and one left.

The point is that "being taken" is an idiomatic descriptor of those who decided to stay and not flee with those Christians who told them to flee. Those "being left" were those who decided to flee when they saw the warning signs and, thereby, avoided being caught in the Destruction of Jerusalem and the surrounding land. In interpreting Matthew 24:40 the way I do, I see verses 36-44 as an amplification of the 'abomination of desolation' Jesus refers to earlier in verses 15 and 16 (and on down to verse 28).

Where the Olivet Discourse is concerned in the Synoptic Gospels, particularly on Matthew 24:39 Matthew 24:40, I think the Partial Preterists have had some reasonable interpretive/exegetical points to make by taking various additional historical contexts into mind, and I can appreciate their various points even if I read the rest of New Testament eschatology within the frame of Historicized Premillennialism rather than as a Preterist.

So, yes, I think Matthew 24:39 Matthew 24:40 does describe what happened in 70 AD........................................ but we don't have to argue over it. The future that you and I have to deal with will be whatever it is destined to be regardless of how we think we read the Bible. ;)
 
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Spiritual Jew

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The point is that "being taken" is an idiomatic descriptor of those who decided to stay and not flee with those Christians who told them to flee. Those "being left" were those who decided to flee when they saw the warning signs and, thereby, avoided being caught in the Destruction of Jerusalem and the surrounding land. In interpreting Matthew 24:40 the way I do, I see verses 36-44 as an amplification of the 'abomination of desolation' Jesus refers to earlier in verses 15 and 16 (and on down to verse 28).

Where the Olivet Discourse is concerned in the Synoptic Gospels, particularly on Matthew 24:39 Matthew 24:40, I think the Partial Preterists have had some reasonable interpretive/exegetical points to make by taking various additional historical contexts into mind, and I can appreciate their various points even if I read the rest of New Testament eschatology within the frame of Historicized Premillennialism rather than as a Preterist.

So, yes, I think Matthew 24:39 Matthew 24:40 does describe what happened in 70 AD........................................ but we don't have to argue over it. The future that you and I have to deal with will be whatever it is destined to be regardless of how we think we read the Bible. ;)
Again, Jesus talks about two people being together and then suddenly one is taken and one is left. What you are describing is not that. He was not talking about what happened in 70 AD, He was talking about what will happen when He returns in the future. All people will either survive His return or will be killed. If you read Luke 17:26-37 you should see that He related one being taken and one being left to His second coming which He also compared to what happened with the flood in Noah's day and what happened to Sodom in Lot's day. In those events, all believers survived and all unbelievers were killed and Jesus said "Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed." (Luke 17:30).

So, when Jesus talked about one being taken and one left, the ones taken (Greek word means to be snatched or taken up) should be compared to Noah and Lot and their families who were taken to safety. The church will be taken up to meet Christ when He comes. Those left should be compared to those left outside of the ark and those left in Sodom who were all killed. Likewise, all unbelievers will be killed when Jesus returns.
 
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2PhiloVoid

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Again, Jesus talks about two people being together and then suddenly one is taken and one is left. What you are describing is not that. He was not talking about what happened in 70 AD, He was talking about what will happen when He returns in the future. All people will either survive His return or will be killed. If you read Luke 17:26-37 you should see that He related one being taken and one being left to His second coming which He also compared to what happened with the flood in Noah's day and what happened to Sodom in Lot's day. In those events, all believers survived and all unbelievers were killed and Jesus said "Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed." (Luke 17:30).

So, when Jesus talked about one being taken and one left, the ones taken (Greek word means to be snatched or taken up) should be compared to Noah and Lot and their families who were taken to safety. The church will be taken up to meet Christ when He comes. Those left should be compared to those left outside of the ark and those left in Sodom who were all killed. Likewise, all unbelievers will be killed when Jesus returns.

There's always the possibility that you're correct. But there's also the possibility that I'm correct, or that neither of us is correct.
 
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bèlla

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There's always the possibility that you're correct. But there's also the possibility that I'm correct, or that neither of us is correct.

Many look to the rapture in the hope of avoiding the realities of the antichrist’s presence. They don’t want to suffer and that’s understandable but the bible addresses this. It’s going to be hard. Incredibly so. The Lord’s intervention isn’t to mitigate hardship it’s to keep us from fainting. Things will get so bad and many will want to give up. We’re already hearing it now. There’s people pleading for His return because they know it’s coming.

The best thing that could happen for christians is America’s downturn. We’ve gotten too comfortable and you can’t keep pace with satan when you’re weak. You have to stay girded. As evil increases we have to do same spiritually. You can’t fight today’s problems with your 2019 self. Because the decibel is higher and requires more on that plane. We should all be fasting every week because it’s time. If you don’t believe it’s so look at the news. That’s your barometer if you can’t feel it internally.

We have to stop trying to escape and stand as instructed.

~bella
 
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Many look to the rapture in the hope of avoiding the realities of the antichrist’s presence. They don’t want to suffer and that’s understandable but the bible addresses this. It’s going to be hard. Incredibly so. The Lord’s intervention isn’t to mitigate hardship it’s to keep us from fainting. Things will get so bad and many will want to give up. We’re already hearing it now. There’s people pleading for His return because they know it’s coming.

The best thing that could happen for christians is America’s downturn. We’ve gotten too comfortable and you can’t keep pace with satan when you’re weak. You have to stay girded. As evil increases we have to do same spiritually. You can’t fight today’s problems with your 2019 self. Because the decibel is higher and requires more on that plane. We should all be fasting every week because it’s time. If you don’t believe it’s so look at the news. That’s your barometer if you can’t feel it internally.

We have to stop trying to escape and stand as instructed.

~bella

I'm afraid you're right, bella.

I will say that although I've never been able to read Matthew 24:40 in the same way the Southern Baptist pastor of the church I attended years ago did, I can very well empathize with those who wish for a providential escape hatch.............................
 
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bèlla

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I'm afraid you're right, bella.

I will say that although I've never been able to read Matthew 24:40 in the same way the Southern Baptist pastor of the church I attended years ago did, I can very well empathize with those who wish for a providential escape hatch.............................

Bad is subjective as you’re aware. You can be comfortably uncomfortable or downtrodden and panicking. It’s a question of focus and priorities. I don’t know about the rest but I plan to enjoy my life as things erode. The only thing I can control is my mindset and how I spend my time. I’m not getting to the end with regrets.

We know they’re going to muck it up. That’s inevitable. But you don’t have to be miserable until it happens. ;-)

~bella
 
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RandyPNW

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I'm afraid you're right, bella.

I will say that although I've never been able to read Matthew 24:40 in the same way the Southern Baptist pastor of the church I attended years ago did, I can very well empathize with those who wish for a providential escape hatch.............................
You know what I fear as much as the danger of Christians being scattered by persecution? It's the fear many Christians have in "not being liked." Peer pressure is an extreme danger to many Christians. The popular culture is much more desirable than that very "unsocial" thing called "the Cross."
 
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2PhiloVoid

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You know what I fear as much as the danger of Christians being scattered by persecution? It's the fear many Christians have in "not being liked." Peer pressure is an extreme danger to many Christians. The popular culture is much more desirable than that very "unsocial" thing called "the Cross."

Yeah, I hear you. Culture always plays a part in influencing people away from the Lord.
 
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JulieB67

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Do you think this will include planes falling out of the skies , cars and other vehicles crashing into one another etc.
Because I had some awful thoughts about this. What if one day I'm driving my family or friends somewhere and I'm the only Christian in the car.........
No, I don't. Because a pretrib rapture is not biblical. I used to wonder about that type of thing as well when I once believed in that doctrine. And now I see how insane that would be and obviously not a part of God's plan.
 
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bniffty24

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No, I don't. Because a pretrib rapture is not biblical. I used to wonder about that type of thing as well when I once believed in that doctrine. And now I see how insane that would be and obviously not a part of God's plan.
Years ago I visited the rapture ready forums site and it was a very busy and popular place for pre trib rapture conversations , but today it's like a ghost town. So it looks like a lot of people have woken up.
 
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