DOGE cuts to the NOAA risks lives

loveofourlord said:

not to mention, oil rigs only go out so far, that give you at most a day to react let alone days like normal, if a hurricane is close enough to be detected by an oil rig thats not really going to give much time.

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You're acting as if a reduction in funding results in complete blindness.

loveofourlord said:

kinda like tornado alerts, being based upon people looking out their windows and reporting. Sure they can detect, maybe with enough warning, but isn't the same thing as, "The pressure is dropping 80% chance of tornados in next few hours."

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The tornado sirens in the Dallas area worked just fine last week. Actually come to think of it it was this week, last Monday.

BNR32FAN said:

The tornado sirens in the Dallas area worked just fine last week. Actually come to think of it it was this week, last Monday.

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Those are operated by the local civil defense authorities, not the NWS.

BNR32FAN said:

The tornado sirens in the Dallas area worked just fine last week. Actually come to think of it it was this week, last Monday.

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back in reality, First came the weather service staffing cuts. Then came the tornadoes.

And it was just an example of what using oil rigs was like.

BNR32FAN said:

You're acting as if a reduction in funding results in complete blindness.

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That's not what anyone said. We are just telling you that your "but there are weather stations mounted to oil rigs" is far from adequate even for necessary data collection. It says nothing about the work needed to turn data into predictions and warnings.

FreeinChrist said:

Isn't that why weather balloons are used? The cuts to NOAA affects how many are used.

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Weather balloons (radiosondes) are used to directly measure the profile of the atmosphere. Remote sensing is fine for many things, but it has to be cross checked.

FreeinChrist said:

My brother lives in southern Michigan and said they already had 27 tornadoes this year, and that this has been the most active season for them since 1950. He then went on to complain about the lack of FEMA help. Could be because of cuts to FEMA.

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FEMA is a separate issue in a separate department. The problem they are seeing with FEMA is because the President wants states to take over from FEMA and that agency has *also* received "DOGE"y cuts.

BNR32FAN said:

You're acting as if a reduction in funding results in complete blindness.

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A drastic reduction in staffing results in partial blindness. A totally unnecessary blindness. A dangerous blindness - and for what? Tax break for billionaires?

loveofourlord said:

back in reality, First came the weather service staffing cuts. Then came the tornadoes.

And it was just an example of what using oil rigs was like.

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What’s the point of posting this article? There was no shutdown of tornado warning systems. The systems remained active throughout the entire storm. So what’s your point?

DaisyDay said:

A drastic reduction in staffing results in partial blindness. A totally unnecessary blindness. A dangerous blindness - and for what? Tax break for billionaires?

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Nobody has actually demonstrated any blindness at all. We’ve managed to track these storms since the 80s with pretty accurate measurements with far inferior resources. You’re exaggerating. Even the smallest hurricanes are over a hundred miles in diameter. They don’t hide very easily.

FreeinChrist said:

I saw that the temp head of FEMA was unaware that there was a hurricane season. ??? FEMA has been hit by DOGE.


Yesterday, a weatherman in South Florida, with a long career at forecasting reported this:

There is concern in Texas as well .

Trump supporters, is this what you voted for? Does the public safety mean much to you?


BTW, cutting funding to NOAA was part of Project 2025. I remember the denials that it was a thing for Trump.

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Something interesting, but first some background:

I get my weather information direct from the NWS rather than TV and AM/FM radio because we're far enough away from TV sources that the forecast isn't a match, and AM/FM sources for weather may not necessarily be local. TV and AM/FM radio weather tends to get their info from the NWS Zone forecast for where their studio is located, and by going to the NWS and selecting your zone, you can get more accurate forecasts for your area. If you have a NOAA weather radio, you can do the same provided you have it set up right.

I also get weather data from a couple of automated weather stations. This started for work, but keeping your own database of weather is interesting, and will probably continue after I retire.

Now for the interesting thing:

The NWS has an experimental forecast I like to look at that may be a closer match than a zone forecast. When things get tight at the NWS, I'd expect the experimental, not-required, things to be jettisoned first. The two automated stations are still operating. Being automated, they'll probably continue, but the thing is they are automated.

So, we still have an experimental product of the NWS continuing to function despite what we are told are detrimental budget cuts. We also have automated stations that function without anyone present, so that weather data is still collected. Make of that what you will, but when we in our mundane lives face cashflow issues, we look at what we can do without and the luxuries are the first to go.

Now for a cynical take:

I'm not impressed by the NHC's projections for Hurricane Helene. The path ended up out of the cone of uncertainty . I went to bed expecting high tropical storm force winds and woke to hurricane force winds. God kept us and family same, and in the case of one family member, in a dramatic way (a lineman I work with described where this family member lives as being in a pocket with storm damage around them). After the storm, everyone here scrambled to get supplies we would normally had stocked up on prior to the hurricane.. I came out of that with an intense skepticism for forecast models, and am reduced to the old seat-of-our pants guestimates based on where it's been and weather maps. When I hear that it's going to affect NOAA forecasts, I honestly think NOAA didn't do so hot before, so why should we think things would be any different.

Another cynical take:

We spent four years hearing that Biden was sharp at a tack and that videos of lapse in concentration were "fake." Now we are told that NOAA cuts means people will die. If they couldn't tell the truth about the other, why should I think they're telling the truth now?

BNR32FAN said:

What’s the point of posting this article? There was no shutdown of tornado warning systems. The systems remained active throughout the entire storm. So what’s your point?

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you don't think having to scramble to do their jobs because not enough people isn't a problem?

FreeinChrist said:

The "who" are different. That lives could be affected by cuts in the NOAA come from weather experts, and just because they criticize the cuts, it doesn't mean they are Democrats. That seems to be the thinking of MAGA but it is not true. For all we know, the weatherman in the video voted Republican. For all we know, many of the experts criticizing cuts to the NOAA are Republicans. Does MAGA all assume that any criticism of the Trump administration must mean the person is a Democrat? Assumptions are unwise.

And wow, you just gave justification for not believing a single thing that Trump says, as he has lied, and lied, and lied, and lied, and lied.
Joe was fine till the last year, and aging can be like that. BUT THIS THREAD IS NOT ABOUT JOE BIDEN. Keep it on the topic in the OP.

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I would also point out that many of the places that these tornados and hurricanes will hit are heavily republican.

I some times wonder if trump is secrety a democrat plant to turn everyone against republicans, while killing off many of the republicans.

probinson said:

Imagine tuning in to hear the 5-day forecast and instead having to listen to this guy's politicized rant.

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I've never witness a politicized rant, while I was watching the weather report. Maybe you should watch another news channel.

I live California, This effects red states more. So, why should I care if this affects Red States. This is what Trump supporters want. I think Blue States should do things their way. And forget about doing things, Trumps way. Also I think any money, that Blue states pay to the government ,should go to blue states..

FreeinChrist said:

The "who" are different. That lives could be affected by cuts in the NOAA come from weather experts, and just because they criticize the cuts, it doesn't mean they are Democrats. That seems to be the thinking of MAGA but it is not true. For all we know, the weatherman in the video voted Republican. For all we know, many of the experts criticizing cuts to the NOAA are Republicans. Does MAGA all assume that any criticism of the Trump administration must mean the person is a Democrat? Assumptions are unwise.

And wow, you just gave justification for not believing a single thing that Trump says, as he has lied, and lied, and lied, and lied, and lied.
Joe was fine till the last year, and aging can be like that. BUT THIS THREAD IS NOT ABOUT JOE BIDEN. Keep it on the topic in the OP.

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Odd. I didn't mention Democrat or Republican. You brought up MAGA. Should I respond, in all caps, that the OP not about MAGA? That's how you responded to me when I gave an example of how the press cannot be relied on.

My point is that if things are as dire as we are told in the press, why hasn't the NWS curtailed an experimental product? If things are so tight (as we are told by the media) that cuts put lives in jeopardy, then why continue to maintain an experimental product? Logically, if manpower is cut as deep as claimed, an experimental product would be the first to go. Yet it's still there. And the two sources of data I keep up with are automated. How many more are automated?

My other point is that last year's NHC didn't do so hot of a job. We're talking about the center of a hurricane's eye moving out of the cone of uncertainty in less than three hours. Not the center of the forecast path: the cone that's supposed to define how far that path could move in either direction. I cynically ask: If their forecasts suffer due to cuts, how would we ever be able to tell given how they messed up last year?

CRAZY_CAT_WOMAN said:

I've never witness a politicized rant, while I was watching the weather report. Maybe you should watch another news channel.

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A rant? The closest was various times when The Weather Channel got into spats with cable and dish carriers and urged viewers to pressure their providers.

loveofourlord said:

I would also point out that many of the places that these tornados and hurricanes will hit are heavily republican.

I some times wonder if trump is secrety a democrat plant to turn everyone against republicans, while killing off many of the republicans.

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Here's something interesting:

Those tornadoes and hurricanes will continue to happen regardless to who is in office or how much funding NOAA gets. NOAA can't predict that such-and-such a location will likely see a tornado. The best it can to is to pick up signatures in Doppler radar or rely on eyewitness reports, and then hope they can get the word out. The latter isn't as easy as you may think. Weather radio coverage is spotty, and our offer to host a transmitter was panned years ago, so that coverage isn't going to improve for us. And guess what: county/parish wide tornado sirens are the exception, not the norm.

Offhand I can't count the number of tornadoes I've experienced. The first I remember had a rumble that my father recognized and we took cover. We took cover several times when I was in school, once when a funnel was sighted, maybe by one of the teachers. For one, I was looking out the window when it hit close by, seeing the pines bend over. By the time I shouted to take cover, it was gone. Have seen funnels a few times, one lifting up from the ground. The last we did get warning of over cell phones, but it was of the "Take cover now" type, and given how far apart cell towers are here and which one your phone is connected to, a tornado might be nearby or it might not. Have seen both instances.

My point is that most tornadoes I've lived through occurred without warning. At best you knew you were under a tornado watch, but those are so common you tend to go "yeah, yeah" and tried to keep a weather eye and ear out on conditions. That's not a pun, either.

As to hurricanes, after Helene I'll never put much stock in a NHC forecast again. After than one it was back to knowing that a hurricane could make landfall in such-and-such area and a seat-of-your-pants guessing of where it will go. With Helene, we were out of the cone of uncertainty, and the 11:00 PM advisory put tropical storm force winds for our area. I woke to hurricane force winds. At one point heard the "train whistle" sound usually associated with tornadoes. That's a lot stronger than was forecast. Had the forecast been reliable, we would have been better prepared, both at home and at the utility.

Now: had the NHC made an accurate forecast for Helene, it still would have hit. All we could have done was to prepare and hunker down. As it was, we only hunkered down. Had the NHC given an accurate forecast, it wouldn't have made one whit of a difference in damage.

We're inland. On the coast, you've got storm surge and high wind in places other than the eye. One's headed for your general area? Bug out. It's just that simple. I'm old enough to remember the "Hurricane House" during Camille and what happened to it. If you wait until some authority tells you to bug out, you're going to face jammed roads. Just board and tie things up and bug out before the roads get bad, whether it's in the cone of uncertainty or not.

How, exactly, would cuts in NOAA affect any of that? Helene's forecast was inaccurate. For tornadoes, we might get a warning or we might not. How, pray tell, would it be any different than what we already have?

Also note that the NWS is yet to curtail that experimental product I keep harping on. If things get dire, I expect that to go first.