Questions regarding The Sudden Death of Thomas Merton

Hans Blaster · Wednesday at 6:31 PM

RileyG said:
Catholic Monk who later became interested in eastern religions.

Thanks. I see then...

not of interest to Am. Pol, now or then.

chevyontheriver · Wednesday at 7:20 PM

Akita Suggagaki said:
Martin Luther King assassinated 4/4/1968

Bobby Kennedy assassinated 6/6/1968

Sudden death of Thomas Merton 12/16/1968

Coincident? Conspiracy theory? I think there is more to it.

Five years earlier, Nov 2 1963, was the assassination of president Ngo Dinh Diem of Viet Nam. A fairly unknown killing with massive consequences for Viet Nam, the USA, and the world. And he was the Catholic that JFK couldn't bring himself to be. And I don't know if it is a coincidence that twenty days later JFK was assassinated.

The Lost Mandate of Heaven: JFK’s Other Assassination

The participation of the media in laying the foundations for the Vietnam War cannot be overstated.

www.ncregister.com

Aryeh Jay · Wednesday at 7:38 PM

chevyontheriver said:
And he was the Catholic that JFK couldn't bring himself to be.

Of course he could never be like Ngo, Kennedy married a woman.

FireDragon76 · Wednesday at 7:51 PM

RileyG said:
Catholic Monk who later became interested in eastern religions.

Trad Caths have their own conspiracy theories around Merton's death, that it was a kind of divine chastisement.

I'm just willing to leave it as a tragic accident or mystery.

Dabbling in eastern religions was the least of Merton's "sins", if you can even call it that (by modern post Vatican II standards, it really wasn't). Like the affair he had with a nurse, for instance.

In the end, it just shows that Merton was deeply human, though, and I think he would be the first to admit that. He went into the monastery wanting to escape "the world", wrote a popular book about the grandeur of monastic asceticism, then came later in life to realize his relationship with monasticism had to be much more complex, because he was becoming something more than just a silent Cistercian monk. The more he retreated from the world, the more he felt drawn back into it, on a deeper level. Authenticity and growth, and spiritual bypassing, just don't go together. They are like oil and water.

bèlla · Wednesday at 7:58 PM

For it to be a valid conspiracy would require two things for consideration. The person or entity that felt threatened by him and what he did to warrant their concern. I’ve heard nothing over the years regarding him in that context from reputable sources. I didn’t see anything initially via gematria when I decoded the dates. And 1968 was an earth monkey year in the Chinese zodiac.

But when I looked at the year on its own it reduces to 24 which correlates to X in the alphabet. An argument can be made for elimination along those lines for the pair. We’d need more information on Merton to do the same. If you have his time of death I can run it through something to see the planetary alignment. I can glean a bit from the date but the time of death is best.

MLK was assassinated during a waxing crescent moon.
RFK was assassinated during a waxing gibbous moon.
Merton passed away during a waning crescent moon.

If you’re alleging foul play the first two are well aligned for that. This gets into more advanced subjects. But if you’re knowledgeable about astronomy and the mazzaroth you’ll understand. But waning crescent moons aren’t designed for activity. It’s a period of rest and reflection. However, the date is very close to Yule and there’s a lot of ritualistic activities during that period. You can compare the others to a specific calendar to see if similar events are taking place.

~bella

chevyontheriver · Wednesday at 9:19 PM

Always in His Presence said:
What on earth does this have to do with American Politics????????

Actually that video I came across has NOTHING to do with American politics. It was just an illustration of someone getting their facts really badly wrong. Far more badly wrong than the date of death of Thomas Merton.

chevyontheriver · Wednesday at 9:22 PM

FireDragon76 said:
That would be the most parsimonious explanation. Before ground fault interrupts, alot of people died electrocuted in bathrooms, for similar reasons.

I guess it's a little inside baseball we Catholics are using but we just presume everybody knows who Thomas Merton was. I mean really ... how can anybody not know.

FireDragon76 · Wednesday at 9:32 PM

chevyontheriver said:
I guess it's a little inside baseball we Catholics are using but we just presume everybody knows who Thomas Merton was. I mean really ... how can anybody not know.

He was a very significant figure in American religious culture, not just for Catholics. My pastor would occasionally quote from him. He was also an important outside voice in the Civil Rights and Anti-War movements. He brought a much needed authenticity and down-to-earth relatability to Christian contemplative spirituality that was in the right place at the right time.

Fantine · Wednesday at 10:27 PM

I was in a Catholic college in 1968, a Catholic college that Thomas Merton had briefly attended (I believe for a summer session) and I never heard any talk about his anti-war views, nor did I for many years, even after reading his books.
He went to the far east because he had become very interested in interspiritual prayer, and had met with Buddhist monastics, learning that many of their prayer and community traditions were very similar to those of Gethsemane Abbey in Kentucky.
If the government wanted to silence anti-war Catholics, they would have murdered Frs. Daniel and Philip Berrigan (I believe they were Jesuits, and I know that one was imprisoned for years.) Thomas Merton was not a threat to them.

Hans Blaster · Thursday at 12:49 AM

chevyontheriver said:
I guess it's a little inside baseball we Catholics are using but we just presume everybody knows who Thomas Merton was. I mean really ... how can anybody not know.

Presume, I think that is the operative word. Perhaps it is because he is a little before my time. I looked over his bio on the wiki, and I don't know of anyone I'd see interested in his writings. I certainly wouldn't have been. Maybe it's more of a think for urban or intellectual Catholics and not our rural sort.

LovebirdsFlying · Thursday at 1:35 AM

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RileyG · Thursday at 2:42 AM

FireDragon76 said:
Trad Caths have their own conspiracy theories around Merton's death, that it was a kind of divine chastisement.

I'm just willing to leave it as a tragic accident or mystery.

Dabbling in eastern religions was the least of Merton's "sins", if you can even call it that (by modern post Vatican II standards, it really wasn't). Like the affair he had with a nurse, for instance.

In the end, it just shows that Merton was deeply human, though, and I think he would be the first to admit that. He went into the monastery wanting to escape "the world", wrote a popular book about the grandeur of monastic asceticism, then came later in life to realize his relationship with monasticism had to be much more complex, because he was becoming something more than just a silent Cistercian monk. The more he retreated from the world, the more he felt drawn back into it, on a deeper level. Authenticity and growth, and spiritual bypassing, just don't go together. They are like oil and water.

Yes. In his book, "The Seven Storey Mountain" he didn't mention his relationship with a woman when he was unmarried and later had a child. IIRC, his child later died.

RileyG · Thursday at 2:43 AM

Hans Blaster said:
Thanks. I see then...

not of interest to Am. Pol, now or then.

Correct. He wasn't a politician. He was Anglican, later Catholic monk, had a mother who died, and was influenced by Quakers.

RileyG · Thursday at 2:44 AM

Fantine said:
I was in a Catholic college in 1968, a Catholic college that Thomas Merton had briefly attended (I believe for a summer session) and I never heard any talk about his anti-war views, nor did I for many years, even after reading his books.
He went to the far east because he had become very interested in interspiritual prayer, and had met with Buddhist monastics, learning that many of their prayer and community traditions were very similar to those of Gethsemane Abbey in Kentucky.
If the government wanted to silence anti-war Catholics, they would have murdered Frs. Daniel and Philip Berrigan (I believe they were Jesuits, and I know that one was imprisoned for years.) Thomas Merton was not a threat to them.

I do admire him greatly, and I love some of the prayers he wrote.

God bless!

Fantine · Thursday at 6:46 AM

Hans Blaster said:
Presume, I think that is the operative word. Perhaps it is because he is a little before my time. I looked over his bio on the wiki, and I don't know of anyone I'd see interested in his writings. I certainly wouldn't have been. Maybe it's more of a think for urban or intellectual Catholics and not our rural sort.

You are missing some amazing writing. He gave up the cultural pleasures of NYC and Paris to live in a quiet monastery in the country where the monks worked the fields, practiced silence, and chanted the psalms seven times a day. It was there he found God and used his talents to inspire millions.

Hans Blaster · Thursday at 8:40 AM

Fantine said:
You are missing some amazing writing. He gave up the cultural pleasures of NYC and Paris to live in a quiet monastery in the country where the monks worked the fields, practiced silence, and chanted the psalms seven times a day. It was there he found God and used his talents to inspire millions.

Sounds like my childhood, but without the pointless chanting. I've never had any interest in this kind of writing, so I don't think *I* would miss much.

Akita Suggagaki · Thursday at 8:44 AM

Fantine said:
I was in a Catholic college in 1968, a Catholic college that Thomas Merton had briefly attended (I believe for a summer session) and I never heard any talk about his anti-war views, nor did I for many years, even after reading his books.
He went to the far east because he had become very interested in interspiritual prayer, and had met with Buddhist monastics, learning that many of their prayer and community traditions were very similar to those of Gethsemane Abbey in Kentucky.
If the government wanted to silence anti-war Catholics, they would have murdered Frs. Daniel and Philip Berrigan (I believe they were Jesuits, and I know that one was imprisoned for years.) Thomas Merton was not a threat to them.

You have a good point. Merton seemed to me to be off that radar. The Berrigan and even Muhammed Ali among many other prominent figures protested the war more publicly. One of the articles mentioned that the CIA was flooded with money in those days in SE Asia. So a hit could have happened, not coming from on high but a decision of simple agent in the street.

Bottom line is we know that we cannot really trust the government nor the media for truth. But conspiracy theories, even this one, are most likely even less reliable.

Questions regarding The Sudden Death of Thomas Merton

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