FAITH-IN-HIM
Well-Known Member
I will ask the question again.
Do Arab Muslims perceive this conflict TODAY as religious war or a secular war?
Upvote
0
-
Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.
-
CF has always been a site that welcomes people from different backgrounds and beliefs to participate in discussion and even debate. That is the nature of its ministry. In view of recent events emotions are running very high. We need to remind people of some basic principles in debating on this site. We need to be civil when we express differences in opinion. No personal attacks. Avoid you, your statements. Don't characterize an entire political party with comparisons to Fascism or Communism or other extreme movements that committed atrocities. CF is not the place for broad brush or blanket statements about groups and political parties. Put the broad brushes and blankets away when you come to CF, better yet, put them in the incinerator. Debate had no place for them. We need to remember that people that commit acts of violence represent themselves or a small extreme faction.
Former Biden diplomat says there’s ‘no question’ that ‘free Palestine’ slogan has become a call for violence
- Thread starter Always in His Presence
- Start date
I will ask the question again.
Do Arab Muslims perceive this conflict TODAY as religious war or a secular war?
Oompa Loompa
Well-Known Member
- Jun 4, 2020
- 10,755
- 5,761
- Country
- United States
- Gender
- Male
- Faith
- Christian
- Marital Status
- Married
I think you are misunderstanding me. WE dont have to make it a religious war as in we are not going to war because of our religious ideologies. THEY are fighting a religious war, but we will fight against the radical Islamic ideology just like how we did with ISIS.
Upvote
0
- Jun 25, 2018
- 11,978
- 11,361
- Country
- United States
- Gender
- Female
- Faith
- Baptist
- Marital Status
- Married
- Politics
- US-Constitution
Upvote
0
Oompa Loompa
Well-Known Member
- Jun 4, 2020
- 10,755
- 5,761
- Country
- United States
- Gender
- Male
- Faith
- Christian
- Marital Status
- Married
Upvote
0
BCP1928
Well-Known Member
- Jan 30, 2024
- 9,985
- 5,070
- 83
- Country
- United States
- Faith
- Other Religion
- Marital Status
- Married
Then why is criticism of the Netanyahu government branded as antisemitism? Why are Jews who are critical of Netanyahu, from Jews who protest with Palestinians all the way up to Bernie Sanders denounced as not "real" Jews?
Upvote
0
Oompa Loompa
Well-Known Member
- Jun 4, 2020
- 10,755
- 5,761
- Country
- United States
- Gender
- Male
- Faith
- Christian
- Marital Status
- Married
Branding criticism of Netanyahu as antisemitism serves political purposes for his government, but it is widely contested both within and outside Jewish communities, with many insisting that dissent and debate are not only legitimate but essential.
Upvote
0
Oompa Loompa
Well-Known Member
- Jun 4, 2020
- 10,755
- 5,761
- Country
- United States
- Gender
- Male
- Faith
- Christian
- Marital Status
- Married
The Trump administration actively framed criticism of Israel, particularly related to the Netanyahu government and the Israel-Gaza conflict, as potentially antisemitic and took strong federal actions to combat what it characterized as an "explosion" of antisemitism, especially on college campuses. President Trump signed and expanded executive orders (notably EO 13899 in 2019 and EO 14188 in 2025) to marshal federal resources against antisemitism, including investigating and punishing what were described as anti-Jewish acts and pro-Hamas activities. These orders also targeted non-citizens, including foreign students, who were involved in protests or actions deemed supportive of terrorism, threatening visa cancellations and deportations.
The administration equated certain protests and criticisms—especially those perceived as supporting Hamas or opposing Israel's right to exist—with antisemitism and terrorism endorsement. This approach was criticized for conflating political dissent with antisemitism and for potentially infringing on free speech rights, particularly regarding Palestinian solidarity activism and Jewish critics of Netanyahu. The administration's policies included monitoring social media for antisemitic activity and denying immigration benefits on that basis.
Thus, under the Trump administration, criticism of Netanyahu's government or Israeli policies was often met with accusations of antisemitism, and Jewish critics, including those protesting with Palestinians, were sometimes labeled as sympathizers of terrorism or not "real" Jews, reflecting a hardline stance linking political criticism with security threats.
Upvote
0
- Jun 25, 2018
- 11,978
- 11,361
- Country
- United States
- Gender
- Female
- Faith
- Baptist
- Marital Status
- Married
- Politics
- US-Constitution
Your question about why criticism of Netanyahu’s government is labeled antisemitism and why Jewish critics are dismissed as “not real Jews” cuts to a thorny issue in this conflict. As a Reformed Christian with an Amillennial eschatology, I see neither Israel nor Palestine as having religious significance beyond Jesus, our Rabbi and High Priest, who fulfilled God’s redemptive plan (Galatians 3:28–29).
My concern, guided by a deep sense of justice, is Hamas’ violent ideology, not a Christian “holy war” (#90, #97). Let’s unpack why this perception of antisemitism arises and why Hamas remaina the central issue.
Dismissing Jewish critics as “not real Jews” is unhelpful, I agree. However, when criticism amplifies Hamas’ rhetoric, like “from the river to the sea” (#82), which their 2017 charter uses to demand Israel’s destruction, it can be seen as antisemitic because it supports a group, whether by intention or not, whose actions, like the October 7, 2023, attack killing 1,200, target Jews (#96) indiscriminately.
This isn’t about silencing dissent but recognizing that Hamas’ jihadist ideology, rooted in their 1988 Covenant’s view of Palestine as an Islamic waqf (#96), fuels violence against Jews, not just political disputes.
You noted the conflict’s secular origins but Hamas’ religious framing—calling for jihad to “liberate” Palestine—has hijacked this, creating a cycle of suffering (#100). Their misuse of aid for rockets and human shields (#84, #85) harms Palestinians and Israelis alike, blocking peace.
My Amillennial view holds that God’s plan centers on Christ, not modern nation-states, so I’m not pushing a religious war but urging decisive action against Hamas so that we can move forward in a positive manner, addressing real concerns.
Until Hamas is neutralized and responsible governance emerges, debates over political rhetoric won’t resolve the conflict’s root. Good leadership, perhaps Trump’s, could pave a way forward, but only if we face Hamas’ threat head-on.
How can we critique Israel’s policies without bolstering Hamas’ agenda? American college campus riots actually stopped Saudi Arabia from signing onto the Abraham peace accords and beginning relations normalizations.
When we stand together against Hamas and against Islamic extremism prior to attempting to deal with what are, at the moment, secondary issues at best, then we can actually do something positive towards stopping the war.
Last edited:
Upvote
0
BCP1928
Well-Known Member
- Jan 30, 2024
- 9,985
- 5,070
- 83
- Country
- United States
- Faith
- Other Religion
- Marital Status
- Married
Interesting point about the Waqf. Back before the Mandate, relatively few Palestinians owned land outright. Most of them (Christians, Jews and Muslims) owned leaseholds. Some of the land was owned by the Ottoman Empire, and some was owned by the Waqf. Once established, the Israeli government took over all the Ottoman land. As conflict heated up and people fled, the government deemed their leaseholds abandoned and settled immigrants on it. But what about Waqf land? The Waqf is a private religious foundation which uses the income from its endowment to build and maintain Mosques and finance charitable undertakings. The Zionists ran people off those leaseholds, too. But I'll bet the immigrants who were settled on those lands aren't paying rent to the Waqf.
Upvote
0
- Jun 25, 2018
- 11,978
- 11,361
- Country
- United States
- Gender
- Female
- Faith
- Baptist
- Marital Status
- Married
- Politics
- US-Constitution
You deny this is a religious war (#90), accusing Christians of framing it so, yet raise waqf disputes, aligning with Hamas’s jihadist claim that Palestine is an Islamic waqf. This contradiction supports their holy war narrative, not a secular one.
The British Mandate (1922) was legal, replacing Ottoman control (Treaty of Lausanne, 1923). Jews owned ~6–8% of land via legal purchases, with no universal compensation duty for waqf leaseholders. Israel’s policies were decidedly secular and in accordance with law during that time.
I urge neutralizing Hamas’s violence for peace. Why align with their jihad narrative?
Upvote
0
Oompa Loompa
Well-Known Member
- Jun 4, 2020
- 10,755
- 5,761
- Country
- United States
- Gender
- Male
- Faith
- Christian
- Marital Status
- Married
Upvote
0
stevevw
inquisitive
- Nov 4, 2013
- 17,111
- 2,000
- Gender
- Male
- Faith
- Christian
- Marital Status
- Private
The point is they have a right to criticise Isreal but often its only Isreal and the same outrage is not directed at others who may do the same or worse in most cases. Isreal has done nothing that most other nations have done. But Isreal is always the focus.
Like the UN and how they have made something like 19 of something like 22 of their resolutions on inhumane treatment has been about Isreal brought by nations who have the worst inhumane treatment. The UN has rarely targeted these nations who are complaining about Isreal but rather have concentrated all their attention on Isreal with trumped up charges.
Upvote
0
stevevw
inquisitive
- Nov 4, 2013
- 17,111
- 2,000
- Gender
- Male
- Faith
- Christian
- Marital Status
- Private
The Jews are one of the most adaptive peoples in the world. They will live in just about any situation and with whoever so long as there is peace and no one is going to sneak up on you and blow your family or embassy away. Thats the problem that radicals have infiltrated peacefuul communities and nations and are creating tensions and paranoia.
We know if there were extremist living in our community as what happened years ago where everyone was on edge and we did not know when the next terror was going to happen. It shook the world. Now the attention of terrorist is on Isreal and the Jews. But its the same mentality we in the west wanted to rid ourselves of and keep from our shores.
People forget the terror these radicals caused. In fact so much so that some are siding with them as though they are not terrorists or extremists. Thats becuase rather than people standing on the truths and freedoms the west have created they think the west is an oppressor.
Its a crazy mentality to believe that extremists who are willing to indescriminately blow up and decapitate babies and rape women is on par with what Isreal or the west has done. Then go about undermining the only nations who will protect us from this terror that is rising in the world.
We know if there were extremist living in our community as what happened years ago where everyone was on edge and we did not know when the next terror was going to happen. It shook the world. Now the attention of terrorist is on Isreal and the Jews. But its the same mentality we in the west wanted to rid ourselves of and keep from our shores.
People forget the terror these radicals caused. In fact so much so that some are siding with them as though they are not terrorists or extremists. Thats becuase rather than people standing on the truths and freedoms the west have created they think the west is an oppressor.
Its a crazy mentality to believe that extremists who are willing to indescriminately blow up and decapitate babies and rape women is on par with what Isreal or the west has done. Then go about undermining the only nations who will protect us from this terror that is rising in the world.
Upvote
0
BCP1928
Well-Known Member
- Jan 30, 2024
- 9,985
- 5,070
- 83
- Country
- United States
- Faith
- Other Religion
- Marital Status
- Married
If a thief stole your church funds, would going after him constitute a religious pursuit?
I take no position on the Hamas claim that the territory of Ottoman Palestine is a waqf. Waqf is just the Arabic word for "endowment." But your post started me wondering about what happened to the land owned by the waqf after Israel took over. Presumably, the land owned by the Ottoman Empire was taken over by Iarael. But what about the waqf? It didn't belong to the Ottoman government.
Upvote
0
- Jun 25, 2018
- 11,978
- 11,361
- Country
- United States
- Gender
- Female
- Faith
- Baptist
- Marital Status
- Married
- Politics
- US-Constitution
I'm sorry but just no. The Ottomans ceded control via a legal treaty.
God is sovereign over all things and the land of Israel is not an Islamic Waqf. Israel is not the "church funds" of the Arabs and no one "stole" anything.
If God saw Israel even for one second as an Islamic Waqf, then the Arabs would have actually won any one of the myriad wars they have tried waging against her.
God has spoken. Israel has the right to exist. Palestine doesn't exist, by their own choice, only Israel does. If Palestinians want to be a nation they will have to live next door in peace.
This is the way of life. God has spoken, well more than once. It's time to agree with God and have the peace.
The apocalyptic aspirations of the Arab Islamists is wholly invalid. They have a mosque. They can keep it up while living peacefully with their Jewish neighbors, or of course they can die, I'm sure it's their choice, but Israel is going nowhere and owes no Arab not one thing.
And that, is according to God.
If you want to know what God's will is, watch what God does, and God strengthened Israel against greater forces. Arabs have every part of the middle east but a postage stamp, and then He declared that postage stamp for the Jews.
So this is God's will. Iran, Lebanon, Egypt, all the crazy Islamists from the world over and Jordan combined couldn't take down a handful of Jews. It's over.
Time for the peace.
Last edited:
Upvote
0
Similar threads
