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6,000 Years?
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So the interpretation “When God began to created the heavens and the earth” isn’t intended to support Gap Theory? Because Gap Theory teaches that the heavens and the earth were created before the first day which contradicts Genesis 2:2-4 and Exodus 20:11.
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Job 33:6
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No it's not gap theory.
Let's look at Exodus 20:11 for example.
Exodus 20:11 NIV
[11] For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, but he rested on the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy.
Imagine if I said:
"When I began to create a boat, now the boat was in pieces and empty, and a bird was flying over the waters, then I said "someone pass me the hammer".
Then I said:
"For in 6 hours I made the boat".
It wouldn't be contradictory. The first statement is just an introduction to when I began making the boat. Then the second statement is just stating how long it took me to make it.
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Mercy Shown
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I made no s
I Made no such suggestion. Nor did I allude to anyone else’s work that would suggest that.
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Amo2
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From what I understand, no one can say how old or young the earth and universe are without making certain unprovable presumptions. Most make these presumptions in accord with their own world views, or faiths if you will. These differing faiths determine which presumptions one will place their faith in. As a YEC bible believer, I place my faith in the word of God as an accurate historical account of the events of creation. Deep timer evolutionists place their faith in the presumptive observations of humanity.
We know today, that many things deep timers have told us had to take millions or billions of years to develop, can and do in fact often develop very rapidly. Which is why Catastrophism is widely accepted even among deep timers now. There is now no denying that much of what we see today was brought about rapidly through catastrophic events. This of course as I see it, greatly supports the biblical global flood scenario. This according to my chosen faith, of course. We also now know that fossilization can and does happen far more rapidly than once thought. That oil, coal, and even diamonds can and do form far more rapidly than once thought under the right conditions. Conditions I might add, that a global flood would very likely produce. We can make these things ourselves now by reproducing these conditions in labs.
We now know as well, that there are serious problems with our deep time observational models concerning the age and development of the universe. Observation by the James Webb telescope in particular have revealed huge ordered galaxies near what deep timers have presumed should be the earliest stages of the development of the Universe. Meaning of course, that their models of slow development over ages, does not fit what we see at those supposed ages. As in, things must have happened far more rapidly than deep timer presumptions allow for. Or, their presumptions regarding what they should have seen were simply wrong. These two observations of more rapid development than once thought, and more complexity much further back in time, speak loudly to my own faith in creation and design.
These same observations are being made concerning a wide range of scientific discovery. Complexity being found further and further back in time, is highly suggestive of the claims of my faith, that this is so because it was there from the beginning. Created and designed by God as His word historically chronicles. It is also detrimental to the idea that complexity slowly developed over many ages in some kind of random evolutionary accidental manner. Which I personally believe requires a lot more faith, than a logical progression of thought concerning the obvious implications of design, regarding the highly complex life and systems we observe all around us. Just where exactly is the simplicity everything supposedly started from, and where exactly is there any, simple life? There is not. That which we once thought was simple, was and is not. This seems to be the trend.
We know today, that many things deep timers have told us had to take millions or billions of years to develop, can and do in fact often develop very rapidly. Which is why Catastrophism is widely accepted even among deep timers now. There is now no denying that much of what we see today was brought about rapidly through catastrophic events. This of course as I see it, greatly supports the biblical global flood scenario. This according to my chosen faith, of course. We also now know that fossilization can and does happen far more rapidly than once thought. That oil, coal, and even diamonds can and do form far more rapidly than once thought under the right conditions. Conditions I might add, that a global flood would very likely produce. We can make these things ourselves now by reproducing these conditions in labs.
We now know as well, that there are serious problems with our deep time observational models concerning the age and development of the universe. Observation by the James Webb telescope in particular have revealed huge ordered galaxies near what deep timers have presumed should be the earliest stages of the development of the Universe. Meaning of course, that their models of slow development over ages, does not fit what we see at those supposed ages. As in, things must have happened far more rapidly than deep timer presumptions allow for. Or, their presumptions regarding what they should have seen were simply wrong. These two observations of more rapid development than once thought, and more complexity much further back in time, speak loudly to my own faith in creation and design.
These same observations are being made concerning a wide range of scientific discovery. Complexity being found further and further back in time, is highly suggestive of the claims of my faith, that this is so because it was there from the beginning. Created and designed by God as His word historically chronicles. It is also detrimental to the idea that complexity slowly developed over many ages in some kind of random evolutionary accidental manner. Which I personally believe requires a lot more faith, than a logical progression of thought concerning the obvious implications of design, regarding the highly complex life and systems we observe all around us. Just where exactly is the simplicity everything supposedly started from, and where exactly is there any, simple life? There is not. That which we once thought was simple, was and is not. This seems to be the trend.
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trophy33
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If by the word of God you mean Genesis 1, how do you deal with obvious problems like:
- the creation beginning from uncreated primordial waters
- there is no firmament
- stars are not just lights in the firmament to show us time
- there are no waters above the non-existent firmament
- if you believe that Genesis 1 is a literal history, do you keep the literal seventh day sabbath?
- there is no universe with galaxies or planets in the Genesis story, it is a flat earth creation story
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trophy33
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It will not help you in any way, though. It still does not work.
Show me a verse "And God said "let there be waters". Primordial waters are the matter God created from, according to Genesis 1. If you want to know why:
Cosmic ocean - Wikipedia
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We’re no longer obligated to keep any of the sabbaths according to Romans 14 and Colossians 2:16. Why are you even implying that a literal interpretation mandates that we must continue to observe the sabbaths when you specifically quoted these verses indicating that we’re no longer obligated to observe them?
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trophy33
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Don't you understand? If Genesis is just a mythological part (prologue) of the Law, we are not obligated to keep it, because we are not under the Law.
But if you believe Genesis is an objective, literal history, then God literally rested on the 7th day, literally called it holy and literally separated the day, before any Law was established. You might argue you would not need it keep to according to the instructions given in the Law, but you would still need to consider it holy and special day in some way.
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Amo2
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Problems for who? Certainly not God. Who is not trying to explain how He created the world in Genesis, just describing the creation. The problems you are addressing, are your problems concerning how you think it might have been done, not God's. Nor are they a problem for His word which again, is not trying to explain the how of creation at all, accepting that it was by His word. Which scripture declares has creative power within itself. A being far above and beyond our present comprehension.
I don't know exactly what is meant by the waters of Genesis 1, nor the firmament, just like you. There certainly is a lot of water on earth and in space, though in different form. Our present world though, is very different than the pre flood world of creation. Perhaps it would be easier to know or understand if we were still that world. According to scripture though, it ism not.
The bible does not say the stars are just lights for telling time. Though it does stae that this is one ofT
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Amo2
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I'm not sure how this got posted. I started a post which I could not finish, then went off line. Somehow it got posted. Must have hit a wrong button or such. Didn't notice this til I came back to the computer and finished writing the post. Came here to post it and saw this. Oh well, here is the finished post -
- Problems for who? Certainly not God. Who is not trying to explain how He created the world in Genesis, just describing the creation. The problems you are addressing, are your problems concerning how you think it might have been done, not God's. Nor are they a problem for His word which again, is not trying to explain the how of creation at all, accepting that it was by His word. Which scripture declares has creative power within itself. A being far above and beyond our present comprehension.
- I don't know exactly what is meant by the waters of Genesis 1, nor the firmament, just like you. There certainly is a lot of water on earth and in space, though in different form. Our present world though, is very different than the pre flood world of creation. Perhaps it would be easier to know or understand if we were still in that world. According to scripture though, we are not.
- The bible doesn’t say stars or the moon are just lights in the firmament to show us time. It says that some of their functions for us would be - to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years: 15 And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so. 16 And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also.
They do serve as lights dividing day and night and we have used them for the stated purposes above and more. Including navigation. Apart from scientific observation and inquiry, what other purpose have they served for humanity?
- There are in fact many waters in space beyond the the atmosphere of this world.
In the Solar System: Water, Water Everywhere, But Where to Drink?
Another First: NASA Webb Identifies Frozen Water in Young Star System - NASA Science
140 Trillion Oceans Of Water Found In Space Around 12 Billion Light-Years Away
There’s a Gigantic Water Cloud in Space - New Space Economy
- Yes, I do keep the seventh day Sabbath of God.
- No Genesis is not a flat earth story. Nor does it attempt to explain galaxies, planets and or solar systems. These are left for humanity to study and figure out in learning the wonders of God’s creation.
Rom 1:18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness; 19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them. 20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse: 21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened. 22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools, 23 And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things. 24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves: 25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.
The theories of deep time evolution, including the evolutionary tree life -
Tree of life (biology) - Wikipedia
are just modern intellectual forms of idol worship. Reducing our existence to random chance mutations among birds, four footed beasts, and creeping things. Worshipping a God of randomness, and completely improbable chance, of their own making. The new idols crafted by their own “intellect”, hands, persuit, and wild imaginations. Coming up with probably the silliest and most improbable theories possible. Nothing, or even something, blew up, and here we are. One random chance positively progressive event or mutation after another trillions of times over again, unto the incomprehensible complexity we observe today. And this passes for real science today. Go figure. I speak concerning atheistic evolution of course, which does not allow for any intelligent design.
- Problems for who? Certainly not God. Who is not trying to explain how He created the world in Genesis, just describing the creation. The problems you are addressing, are your problems concerning how you think it might have been done, not God's. Nor are they a problem for His word which again, is not trying to explain the how of creation at all, accepting that it was by His word. Which scripture declares has creative power within itself. A being far above and beyond our present comprehension.
- I don't know exactly what is meant by the waters of Genesis 1, nor the firmament, just like you. There certainly is a lot of water on earth and in space, though in different form. Our present world though, is very different than the pre flood world of creation. Perhaps it would be easier to know or understand if we were still in that world. According to scripture though, we are not.
- The bible doesn’t say stars or the moon are just lights in the firmament to show us time. It says that some of their functions for us would be - to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years: 15 And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so. 16 And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also.
They do serve as lights dividing day and night and we have used them for the stated purposes above and more. Including navigation. Apart from scientific observation and inquiry, what other purpose have they served for humanity?
- There are in fact many waters in space beyond the the atmosphere of this world.
In the Solar System: Water, Water Everywhere, But Where to Drink?
Another First: NASA Webb Identifies Frozen Water in Young Star System - NASA Science
140 Trillion Oceans Of Water Found In Space Around 12 Billion Light-Years Away
There’s a Gigantic Water Cloud in Space - New Space Economy
- Yes, I do keep the seventh day Sabbath of God.
- No Genesis is not a flat earth story. Nor does it attempt to explain galaxies, planets and or solar systems. These are left for humanity to study and figure out in learning the wonders of God’s creation.
Rom 1:18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness; 19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them. 20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse: 21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened. 22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools, 23 And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things. 24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves: 25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.
The theories of deep time evolution, including the evolutionary tree life -
Tree of life (biology) - Wikipedia
are just modern intellectual forms of idol worship. Reducing our existence to random chance mutations among birds, four footed beasts, and creeping things. Worshipping a God of randomness, and completely improbable chance, of their own making. The new idols crafted by their own “intellect”, hands, persuit, and wild imaginations. Coming up with probably the silliest and most improbable theories possible. Nothing, or even something, blew up, and here we are. One random chance positively progressive event or mutation after another trillions of times over again, unto the incomprehensible complexity we observe today. And this passes for real science today. Go figure. I speak concerning atheistic evolution of course, which does not allow for any intelligent design.
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Amo2
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You are correct. Not being under the law means we are no longer condemned by the law, not that we should no longer keep it. We are admonished to keep God's Commandments right up to the last chapter and book of holy scripture.
The seventh day Sabbath of God was established at creation, 2000 years before there ever was an Israelite. Reaffirmed for Israel when God spoke the Ten commandments audibly to the entire nation of Israel in a most awesome display of divinity, and written with God's own finger in stone for the nation of Israel twice. Isaiah also declared that God's Sabbath will be kept in the new heaven and new earth.
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trophy33
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This is the teaching of the Seventh Day Adventists and I do not agree with it. Genesis is not a literal history, namely first chapters are mythological, it was written as a prologue to the Law and is set aside with the rest of the Law.
And the Universe is not 6,000 years old, it is basically impossible, if physical evidence counts for something.
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trophy33
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For people trying to read Genesis 1 literally while it is obviously a flat earth cosmology of the iron age.
Genesis was not written by God.
Well, you can learn about it.
Cosmic ocean - Wikipedia
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Job 33:6
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Well, there is a difference between the time that I start riding a bike and the time it takes me to ride a bike to the store. What bothers you about this?
God began creating (Genesis 1:1), and in 6 days he created. And that's why Genesis says:
Genesis 2:1-2 NASB1995
[1] Thus the heavens and the earth were completed, and all their hosts. [2] By the seventh day God completed His work which He had done, and He rested on the seventh day from all His work which He had done.
God began (Genesis 1:1) then you read about God creating the heavens and the earth throughout chapter 1. Then when God is done, the text concludes by telling us how long the creation account was.
It's like saying, in the beginning when I ran a triathlon, day 1 I went up a mountain, day 2 I swam through a lake, day 3 I rode my bike. Then after 3 days I finished the triathlon.
And that's why the Bible talks about God creating the heavens on day 2 and the earth on day 3. That's God creating in 6 days. Tohu (days 1-3) and bohu (days 4-6).
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Amo2
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For people trying to read Genesis 1 literally while it is obviously a flat earth cosmology of the iron age.
Genesis was not written by God.
Well, you can learn about it.
Cosmic ocean - Wikipedia
en.wikipedia.org
- Repeated opinions and false historical narratives, do not ever equal truth.
Gen 4:22 And Zillah, she also bare Tubalcain, an instructer of every artificer in brass and iron: and the sister of Tubalcain was Naamah.
The societal simple to advanced narrative adopted in accordance with theoretical evolutionary claims of simple to complex progressive advancement, is blatantly false. The antediluvian world was filled with peoples much closer to the perfection of mind and body we were originally created with by God. They were mentally, physically, and intellectually superior to the devolved condition humanity has arrived at to date.
This is witnessed in the archeological evidence of superior design and construction of the megalithic buildings of the past. Once one goes far enough back in time to note this evidence. This is not to mention the many ooparts which testify of this truth as well. We most apparently lost a great deal of knowledge and therefore ability as well, at some point in history. Likely several different points of time over history. Today through accumulative knowledge and especially computer technology we may be approaching once again, the accomplishments which a superior humanity of pre flood times, and perhaps short span of the post flood world. Nevertheless, we are individually mental, physical, and intellectual dwarfs compared to those of the world which once was before, and perhaps shortly after the global flood.
There are still flat earthers today. The problem with such is a state of mind, not time. The bible does not say the earth is flat anywhere.
- It was inspired by God, claims to be the word of God, and declares itself to be the standard of truth. Do you deny this? Are you a Christian?
2Pe 1:16 For we have not followed cunningly devised fables, when we made known unto you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but were eyewitnesses of his majesty. 17 For he received from God the Father honour and glory, when there came such a voice to him from the excellent glory, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased. 18 And this voice which came from heaven we heard, when we were with him in the holy mount. 19 We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts: 20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation. 21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.
2Ti 3:15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus. 16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: 17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.
- No, I will not learn the truths of holy scripture on wikipedia. I do not recognize any individual or organization as an authority above or about the holy scriptures. The myths and theories of humanity regarding it and so much more are just that. We must all choose our standard of truth, by which according to scripture, we shall be judged. Praise God's pure, holy, righteous, and benevolent authority and leadership for allowing us to do so.
Jhn 12:44 Jesus cried and said, He that believeth on me, believeth not on me, but on him that sent me. 45 And he that seeth me seeth him that sent me. 46 I am come a light into the world, that whosoever believeth on me should not abide in darkness. 47 And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world. 48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day. 49 For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak. 50 And I know that his commandment is life everlasting: whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak.
The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are one. The holy scriptures are their testimony to humanity. By which all will be judged. Amen!
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Amo2
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It is the belief and teaching of a great many more people than just SDA's, has been believed by a majority of bible believers throughout history, and is what holy scripture itself supports and backs up from one end to the other. What you believe is found nowhere in scripture at all. Not even a hint of any such thing. It must be imposed upon the scriptures, which themselves backup the historical narrative of Genesis 1 from one end to the other. Please do reveal any hint of deep time evolution theory from the scriptures themselves to me if you can, without your own imposed theoretical or speculative opinions added. Thank you.
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