Trump Blinked

iluvatar5150 · May 14, 2025

trophy33 said:
What is the deal about? Who signed it? When?

I asked that earlier and was told, basically, that I ought to look it up for myself.

trophy33 · May 14, 2025

iluvatar5150 said:
I asked that earlier and was told, basically, that I ought to look it up for myself.

It seems it is quite similar to talking to flat earthers.

sjastro · May 14, 2025

The cognitive dissonance exhibited by some posters in this thread is deserving of a separate thread.
It's like Trump supporters who have been fired as a result of DOGE still blindly support the termination of employment in the name of "efficiency".

Vambram · May 14, 2025

Say it aint so said:
Of course you do. Standard operating procedure.

And it is Standard operating procedure for most liberals to disagree with conservatives.

trophy33 · May 14, 2025

Vambram said:
And it is Standard operating procedure for most liberals to disagree with conservatives.

These categories are nonsensical. Am I a conservative or a liberal?

GoldenBoy89 · May 14, 2025

BPPLEE said:
Actually any negotiation with China has to be done without China "losing face"
Instead of this being "Trump is willing to negotiate " it's "Trump folded "
Would you be more pleased with him if he refused to budge on tariffs over 100%?

I’d be more pleased if he didn’t cause all this tariff nonsense to begin with.

Hans Blaster · May 14, 2025

Vambram said:
And it is Standard operating procedure for most liberals to disagree with conservatives.

I don't care if you think it is.

Where is the deal sheet on this "agreement"?
How does it put the US in a better position than when Trump took office?
When will the deal become binding?

Say it aint so · May 14, 2025

Vambram said:
And it is Standard operating procedure for most liberals to disagree with conservatives.

There is no disagreement with my statement.
I know to just make a claim of disagreement when reality causes cognitive dissonance is standard operating procedure here.

Aryeh Jay · May 14, 2025

wing2000 said:
Yea, I'm sure that was top of mind for Donald Trump.

I thought his ability to tell the difference between a giraffe and a beach ball years ago was still his go to talking point.

Vambram · May 14, 2025

Say it aint so said:
There is no disagreement with my statement.
I know to just make a claim of disagreement when reality causes cognitive dissonance is standard operating procedure here.

There's no cognitive dissonance on my part at all.

Bradskii · May 14, 2025

Vambram said:
I absolutely disagree.

You're quite entitled to. So what was the deal on which you based your disagreement? The US dropping their tarrifs? That was just the condition on which a deal would discussed. The condition was 'Let's go back to where we were, then we can talk'. And fearing empty shelves, Trump conceded.

I'm going to be exceptionally gracious here: it was the smart move. Folding when you're holding 7 - 2 off suit and everyone tells you that the other guy can't be bluffed is always the smart move.

Bradskii · May 14, 2025

BPPLEE said:
Actually any negotiation with China has to be done without China "losing face"
Instead of this being "Trump is willing to negotiate " it's "Trump folded "
Would you be more pleased with him if he refused to budge on tariffs over 100%?

See above.

Vambram · May 14, 2025

Bradskii said:
You're quite entitled to. So what was the deal on which you based your disagreement? The US dropping their tarrifs? That was just the condition on which a deal would discussed. The condition was 'Let's go back to where we were, then we can talk'. And fearing empty shelves, Trump conceded.

I'm going to be exceptionally gracious here: it was the smart move. Folding when you're holding 7 - 2 off suit and everyone tells you that the other guy can't be bluffed is always the smart move.

We didn't fold.
China needs the hundreds and hundreds of billions of dollars of business from American consumers a LOT more than the USA needs China. But, I doubt that you, an Australian, will ever agree with that premise.

7thKeeper · May 14, 2025

Vambram said:
We didn't fold.
China needs the hundreds and hundreds of billions of dollars of business from American consumers a LOT more than the USA needs China. But, I doubt that you, an Australian, will ever agree with that premise.

You say that, yet, it wasn't China that made the move, it was the USA. You can't change that no matter how much you try to ignore it in your arguement. Trump folded, not Xi.

Bradskii · May 14, 2025

Vambram said:
We didn't fold.
China needs the hundreds and hundreds of billions of dollars of business from American consumers a LOT more than the USA needs China. But, I doubt that you, an Australian, will ever agree with that premise.

Don't know if you've been to China. I was there last year. Their standard of living is extraordinary compared to what it was when I first went there in the 80's. But...it's a lot lower than the US. And it's effectively a one party state. You get to see what the CCP wants you to to see. To read what they want you to read. To watch what they want you to watch. When covid hit they were locking their people up. They were forcing compliance. Discussing politics is simply not done. Try it and people will literally walk away from you. So it's not like the government is going to be the slightest bit concerned about a few empty shelves and the rank and file grumbling that the price of an iPad just went up.

Trump panicked when heads of major retailers fronted him and said that they would run out of stock. The only reason they didn't was because they had a few warehouses holding some (making or receiving goods 'Just in time' and keeping the bare minimum in stock to reduce your overheads has now become 'Just in case' because no-one knows when the next supply chain collapse will come). Can you imagine that happening in China? The CEO's would be spending the rest of their careers digging ditches somewhere.

The Chinese government can and will do whatever it takes not to lose face. There simply isn't a point where they'll say 'we can't take it any more - you win'. I cannot emphasise that strongly enough. You never, and I mean never get into a position where you need them to back down. But Trump had no idea. He did just the opposite. So he had to back down. And the Chinese, whatever they actually thought of him previously, and in my opinion it wasn't much at all, think even less of him now. He's made a rod for his own back.

Except it's you that will suffer.

Say it aint so · May 14, 2025

Vambram said:
There's no cognitive dissonance on my part at all.

Sure, sure.

Say it aint so · May 14, 2025

Vambram said:
We didn't fold.
China needs the hundreds and hundreds of billions of dollars of business from American consumers a LOT more than the USA needs China. But, I doubt that you, an Australian, will ever agree with that premise.

Those exemptions Trump gave to US companies regarding the top two exports from China to the US say different.

Vambram · May 14, 2025

Bradskii said:
Don't know if you've been to China. I was there last year. Their standard of living is extraordinary compared to what it was when I first went there in the 80's. But...it's a lot lower than the US. And it's effectively a one party state. You get to see what the CCP wants you to to see. To read what they want you to read. To watch what they want you to watch. When covid hit they were locking their people up. They were forcing compliance. Discussing politics is simply not done. Try it and people will literally walk away from you. So it's not like the government is going to be the slightest bit concerned about a few empty shelves and the rank and file grumbling that the price of an iPad just went up.

Trump panicked when heads of major retailers fronted him and said that they would run out of stock. The only reason they didn't was because they had a few warehouses holding some (making or receiving goods 'Just in time' and keeping the bare minimum in stock to reduce your overheads has now become 'Just in case' because no-one knows when the next supply chain collapse will come). Can you imagine that happening in China? The CEO's would be spending the rest of their careers digging ditches somewhere.

The Chinese government can and will do whatever it takes not to lose face. There simply isn't a point where they'll say 'we can't take it any more - you win'. I cannot emphasise that strongly enough. You never, and I mean never get into a position where you need them to back down. But Trump had no idea. He did just the opposite. So he had to back down. And the Chinese, whatever they actually thought of him previously, and in my opinion it wasn't much at all, think even less of him now. He's made a rod for his own back.

Except it's you that will suffer.

China factory protests show US tariffs began to bite

Recent weeks have seen protests break out as factories shut down and workers were left unpaid.

www.newsweek.com

The analysis and quoted individuals, which includes a Chinese economists disagree with your opinions, sir.

Bradskii · May 14, 2025

Vambram said:
The analysis and quoted individuals, which includes a Chinese economists disagree with your opinions, sir.

Some workers demanding pay when their factory shut down? Really? And most links will say the same, referencing 'a Newsweek report said...'. You might be better referencing Free Asia Radio for news from within China. Oh, but the US just terminated their funding. What a shame.

And I didn't say that some of the population won't be hit by tariffs. It'll affect them just as it will affect you. Empty shelves and more expensive goods leading to factory closures. But their government won't buckle. Yours did. For the reasons I gave and for reasons which you are doing your best to ignore.

Now Trump can sit and wait for them to call him. Heaven only knows what he'll do in the meantime.

Vambram · May 14, 2025

Bradskii said:
Some workers demanding pay when their factory shut down? Really? And most links will say the same, referencing 'a Newsweek report said...'. You might be better referencing Free Asia Radio for news from within China. Oh, but the US just terminated their funding. What a shame.

And I didn't say that some of the population won't be hit by tariffs. It'll affect them just as it will affect you. Empty shelves and more expensive goods leading to factory closures. But their government won't buckle. Yours did. For the reasons I gave and for reasons which you are doing your best to ignore.

Now Trump can sit and wait for them to call him. Heaven only knows what he'll do in the meantime.

My government currently has 30% tariffs on most of the Chinese products whereas they have 10% tariffs on American products. The USA did not blink or buckle to the Chinese government. Meanwhile, the Chinese economy is in dire straits and the Chinese government & the Chinese economy needs American customers far more than we really need products from China.

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