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That’s fair, but most popes in recent memory were incredibly holy men.
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Does Jesus Himself condemn Sola Scripitra?
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concretecamper
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Jeff Saunders
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Jeff Saunders
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I don't want you to think I am Catholic bashing, as a Christian I disagree with Catholic doctrine but its the same for all Churches, God is infinite and no one Church has 100% of Gods truth, but the pope who just died equated Islam and the Catholic Church worship the same God.
I do not understand how an "incredibly holy man" could make that totally false statement, that's not even debatable.
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Jeff Saunders
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So you think baptism is what makes one a Christian? If one is baptized because they have chosen to follow Jesus and that's the next step in obedience to Jesus then that one is a Christian. Just getting dunked in water and calling baptism does not.
The lie satan would tell is , you got baptized your in even if it were not true.
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concretecamper
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Absolutely, the Gospels say so.
Baptism is not a grace because one has chosen it. It is a free gift
Agreed. Read the end of Matthew to find the way to Baptize.
Agreed. Those who are Baptized are Christians, but can fall away.
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concretecamper
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Where in Scripture or Tradition does it say a baby needs to perform a work (make promises )in order to receive Baptism.
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I will say the secular media has twisted many of the Pope’s words, therefore I don’t necessarily trust them.
I never said you were bashing anyone.
God bless you
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Jeff Saunders
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Scripture says to believe and be baptized, babies can't believe.
The idea that its baptized then believe is not in scripture.
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Jeff Saunders
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Yes the media, which lies much of the time does twist the truth, but when a person stands hand and hand on camera with Muslim Imam and declaire that the God of Islam is the same as the God of Catholic faith, there is a problem and its not that the media was twisting his words, I say it myself .
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Again. I wonder what the translation was. I have nothing else to add.
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concretecamper
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It can happen that way. But you said Babies can't make promises, what promises?
But Scripture also says entire households were Baptized, which would include all, including Children and babies.
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There are tares amongst the wheat, as Jesus told us. It is still God’s wheat field though the enemy has sown tares. Catholic teaching is the fullness of the Christian faith, and that is what I will follow. It is 100% backed by scripture and the promises of Jesus, guarded by the Holy Spirit
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Absolutely. We must be born of the flesh (water) and of the Spirit to see the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh (water) is flesh and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
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How do you know that the water does not refer to baptism? John said I baptize you with water but one greater than I will baptize you with spirit and with fire.
When we are born of the flesh we are born in Adam’s sin. How could Jesus mean that we must be born in sin and spirit to enter the kingdom of heaven? Sin does not gain us entry
Taking scripture as a whole, it stands to reason that he means that we must be washed in the waters of repentance by dying to self, then renewed to life by the spirit so that we may walk in His ways.
We cannot hold on to our flesh and be ruled by it, while also laying claim to the kingdom of God. Jesus says anyone that saves his life will lose it, but anyone that loses his life for my sake will save it. Paul says when we are baptized in Christ, we are baptized into his death, and he also instructs us to mortify the deeds of the flesh
We are born again when we decide to die with Christ and then we will also be raised with him.
If all we do is sprinkle water on ourselves and claim the name of Jesus, how are we different from the ones that say lord, lord, yet Christ says I never knew you, away from me ye who work iniquity? When we are born again, we give up the desires of the flesh, and live by the spirit. Old things have passed away all things become new
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It is textually evident that Jesus is drawing parallels, which is a very common grammatical device in Hebrew. Many of the Psalms, as well as some of the prophets use it extensively. The parallels are - being born of the flesh and being born of water versus being born from above and being born of the spirit.
The baptism that was known and practiced at the time was that of John, which was a baptism of repentance. It required a complete change of mind (which is what the word repentance in Greek means) in regard to sin so that the water represented a cleansing from sin, and not a new birth of the Holy Spirit.
Jesus Himself underwent John's baptism and John initially did not want to baptize Jesus because He knew that Jesus had no need for repentance. Jesus wanted to associate Himself with John and, thus, was baptized to fulfill all righteousness, but not to be born from above by the Spirit. No where in the Gospels is baptism associated with the new birth.
Simply because there is water mentioned in John 3 does not mean that it must mean that it is the same water as, say, the water of the well of Siloam or the Jordan River or even Niagara Falls.
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Neither does it say in scripture that being born of water is being born of the flesh. That is your interpretation based on your previous post.
If we are sticking with sola scriptura, do you agree that interpretation is not scripture?
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If you, as well as many others, wish to read into scripture your own words and thoughts, that is, assuredly not my problem. Have you ever considered the possibility that Jesus actually could have told Nicodemus - you must get baptized to be born again? It would have been much easier and plainer to have said this, rather than the apparent circumlocution that was recorded by John.
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