Mental health funding in schools

rambot · May 2, 2025

School shooting...

Almost everyone on christian forums: We need better mental health supports for students! We could catch these kids in time

Trump Administration: Here! Let me help in the mean time.

https://www.npr.org/2025/05/01/nx-s1-5382582/trump-school-mental-health

Can we all agree that, without first having a detailed plan to restructure this funding, this is a failure policy.

Or, of course if the goal all along is to save money. why would we think they are restructuring anything? They are STOPPING the money to those people period.

That was the plan.

Josheb · May 3, 2025

rambot said:
School shooting...

Almost everyone on christian forums: We need better mental health supports for students!

We are among the most mental health supporting countries in the world. In the US we have a Constitution that, when followed, would correctly keep mental health out of the schools. Constitutionally oriented Christians will read your sentence as the antithesis of what should happen.

I will further argue the re-introduction of the Judeo-Christian worldview into schools will prevent a lot of school shooting because - in time - it will lead to students with a sound, commonly shared ethic which, in turn, leads to parents raising their children in like manner so that both institutions (the family and public education) which, in time, will result in future educators and other professionals contributing to society with that same shared code of conduct.

Little or no need for mental health support.

rambot said:
We could catch these kids in time

Yes, we could so the problem is not any lack of mental health supports but the failures of the systems to 1) prevent the problem to be solved and 2) responsibly report and intervene when obvious examples exist.

rambot said:
Trump Administration: Here! Let me help in the mean time.

https://www.npr.org/2025/05/01/nx-s1-5382582/trump-school-mental-health

Can we all agree that, without first having a detailed plan to restructure this funding, this is a failure policy.

Or, of course if the goal all along is to save money. why would we think they are restructuring anything? They are STOPPING the money to those people period.

That was the plan.

Money is not the solution. If it were there'd beno school shootings. The US spends more government money per capita on mental health than any other country (Switzerland is close behind) and we have been among the highest-ranking countries with mental health disorders for decades. There are many reasons for this but none of them are the lack of support in public (or private) schools). Maintenance is never causation and should never be confused or conflated.

We have at least eight decades of empirical research in the social sciences that inform what makes for a (mentally) healthy society. Most of it gets ignored by the government and other institutions of society. Much of it is misused for profit. That is the problem to be solved.

Schools should teach academics, especially at the grade school level. Competency is amazingly good for a child's mental health.

rambot · May 3, 2025

Josheb said:
We are among the most mental health supporting countries in the world. In the US we have a Constitution that, when followed, would correctly keep mental health out of the schools. Constitutionally oriented Christians will read your sentence as the antithesis of what should happen.

1. Just becsuse you have the greatest expenditure doesn't mean rhe support is going where it is truly needed for societal impact. Poor folk cannot afford mentaln health care rhr way middle and upper class people can. Not to mention the market in America for individual people spending 10s of thousands of dollars; it gives the impression america

Josheb said:
I will further argue the re-introduction of the Judeo-Christian worldview into schools will prevent a lot of school shooting because - in time - it will lead to students with a sound, commonly shared ethic which, in turn, leads to parents raising their children in like manner so that both institutions (the family and public education) which, in time, will result in future educators and other professionals contributing to society with that same shared code of conduct.

Choose any single worldview and they will argue thr same thing.
Sorry. You live in America. It is a plurality. You have to learn how to put up with people who are beneath you and sinful.

Josheb said:
Yes, we could so the problem is not any lack of mental health supports but the failures of the systems to 1) prevent the problem to be solved and 2) responsibly report and intervene when obvious examples exist.

you think its a system problem and not a bunch of indivduals acring as a group to repress other groups.

Josheb said:
Money is not the solution. If it were there'd beno school shootings. The US spends more government money per capita on mental health than any other country (Switzerland is close behind) and we have been among the highest-ranking countries with mental health disorders for decades.

"Americans spend the most on healthcare. Ergo they must be thr healthiest".
Spending the most does not mean money is going where it is needed.
Eg...a Hollywood movie star needing therapy 3x a week at 800x a pop isn't a threat to anyone's safety yet that's 2400 contributing to "mental health spending".
That same money could support a really tough student for a year and that would make America safer.

Your money is being spent in the wrong places and likely not enough anyways.

Josheb said:
There are many reasons for this but none of them are the lack of support in public (or private) schools). Maintenance is never causation and should never be confused or conflated.

American culture absolutely is messed up. The hyperindividualism too many people in your culture suffer from; rhe angry influences on the young men in America.
There are a lot of reasons America is where it is and you guys wouldn't be able to fix that.

Josheb said:
We have at least eight decades of empirical research in the social sciences that inform what makes for a (mentally) healthy society. Most of it gets ignored by the government and other institutions of society. Much of it is misused for profit. That is the problem to be solved.

Greed is obviously America's biggest root problem and many peoblems stem fe
from that

Josheb said:
Schools should teach academics, especially at the grade school level. Competency is amazingly good for a child's mental health.

.You think teachers don't WANT to teach? Do you know any teachers?

You need not believe this but better parenting would actually be really wonderful too please

Hans Blaster · May 3, 2025

Josheb said:
We are among the most mental health supporting countries in the world. In the US we have a Constitution that, when followed, would correctly keep mental health out of the schools. Constitutionally oriented Christians will read your sentence as the antithesis of what should happen.

I will further argue the re-introduction of the Judeo-Christian worldview

There is no "Judeo-Christian worldview". There are Jewish worldviews; there are Christian worldviews. They are not the same as they are two DIFFERENT religions.

Josheb said:
into schools will prevent a lot of school shooting because - in time - it will lead to students with a sound, commonly shared ethic which, in turn, leads to parents raising their children in like manner so that both institutions (the family and public education) which, in time, will result in future educators and other professionals contributing to society with that same shared code of conduct.

No religion should be incorporated into the public schools. Frequent school shootings is a thing of the late 90s and onward. There was no "Judeo-Christian" worldview in the public schools in the 80s or 70s or early 90s, just as there wasn't in the late 90s or the 21st century. As a Constitutionally oriented Christian you should both know this and support it.

Always in His Presence · May 3, 2025

From the link

"Recipients used the funding to implement race-based actions like recruiting quotas in ways that have nothing to do with mental health and could hurt the very students the grants are supposed to help. We owe it to American families to ensure that tax-payer dollars are supporting evidence-based practices that are truly focused on improving students' mental health."

in which one grantee wrote that school counselors must be trained "to recognize and challenge systemic injustices, antiracism, and the pervasiveness of white supremacy to ethically support diverse communities."

When asked if diversity played any role in his district's grant application, Fialkiewicz replied:

"Yes, in our application, we did state, because it was part of the requirements, that we would use equitable hiring practices. And that's exactly what we did. And to me, equitable hiring practices means you hire the best person for the job. That's equitable."

Perhaps if they actually focused on mental health, it wouldn't be effcted.

Always in His Presence · May 3, 2025

Hans Blaster said:
There is no "Judeo-Christian worldview". There are Jewish worldviews; there are Christian worldviews. They are not the same as they are two DIFFERENT religions.

Completely incorrect:

The term Judeo-Christian is used to group Christianity and Judaism together, either in reference to Christianity's derivation from Judaism, Christianity's recognition of Jewish scripture to constitute the Old Testament of the Christian Bible, or values supposed to be shared by the two religions. It has been used since the 19th century

now back to the topic of the thread....

Hans Blaster · May 3, 2025

Always in His Presence said:
Completely incorrect:

The term Judeo-Christian is used to group Christianity and Judaism together, either in reference to Christianity's derivation from Judaism, Christianity's recognition of Jewish scripture to constitute the Old Testament of the Christian Bible, or values supposed to be shared by the two religions. It has been used since the 19th century

They don't share a WORLDVIEW.

Always in His Presence said:
now back to the topic of the thread....

And they aren't the solution to the "school shooter problem" nor do they belong in the schools.

rambot · May 3, 2025

Always in His Presence said:
From the link

"Recipients used the funding to implement race-based actions like recruiting quotas in ways that have nothing to do with mental health and could hurt the very students the grants are supposed to help. We owe it to American families to ensure that tax-payer dollars are supporting evidence-based practices that are truly focused on improving students' mental health."

in which one grantee wrote that school counselors must be trained "to recognize and challenge systemic injustices, antiracism, and the pervasiveness of white supremacy to ethically support diverse communities."

When asked if diversity played any role in his district's grant application, Fialkiewicz replied:

"Yes, in our application, we did state, because it was part of the requirements, that we would use equitable hiring practices. And that's exactly what we did. And to me, equitable hiring practices means you hire the best person for the job. That's equitable."

Perhaps if they actually focused on mental health, it wouldn't be effcted.

Those are 100% opinion based responses that you love. But it does NOT counter the mandate of providing mental health but works along side it.

Folks who understand the concepts deeply recognize this.

Always in His Presence · May 3, 2025

rambot said:
Those are 100% opinion based responses that you love. But it does NOT counter the mandate of providing mental health but works along side it.

No - they are fact based statements from a direct connection -

BTW - it has zero to do with what 'I love'. Such dramatic connection is not there.

Aaron112 · May 3, 2025

Josheb said:
keep mental health out of the schools.

That is the goal for and from all society according to God's Own Word.

rambot said:
We need better mental health supports for students

rambot said:
this is a failure policy.

All that is from below. All that is of the flesh, IS FLESH, and profits (helps) nothing.

Josheb · May 9, 2025

rambot said:
1. Just because you have the greatest expenditure doesn't mean the support is going where it is truly needed for societal impact.

Exactly.

Why do you think that is?

Josheb · May 9, 2025

rambot said:
Choose any single worldview and they will argue thr same thing. Sorry. You live in America. It is a plurality. You have to learn how to put up with people who are beneath you and sinful.

That is grossly incorrect. A tolerance of diversity within the accepted range of behaviors must exist, but graft, incompetence, prejudice and any form of illegality must not and should not be tolerated. Furthermore. in America we live in a representative republic in which the majority rules. The Constitution directs the majority rule at the expense of the protection of the rights of the minority. In a country in which anywhere from 60-80% of all citizens are Christians that means Christians get to rule. They just cannot do so at the expense of other's rights. That would be the case if 60-80% of the citizenry was Jewish, or Islamic, or Buddhist. 85% of Americans are theists. A representative republic that follows its own rule of law would, therefore, reflect the majority view(s) of that 85%. The reverse has often been the case.

BCP1928 · May 9, 2025

Always in His Presence said:
Completely incorrect:

The term Judeo-Christian is used to group Christianity and Judaism together, either in reference to Christianity's derivation from Judaism, Christianity's recognition of Jewish scripture to constitute the Old Testament of the Christian Bible, or values supposed to be shared by the two religions. It has been used since the 19th century

now back to the topic of the thread....

Hans is correct as usual. There is no such thing as a "Judeo-Christian worldview." Whatever the meaning when it was coined, the term is now code for right-wing Evangelical Christian politics.

Josheb · May 9, 2025

rambot said:
you think its a system problem and not a bunch of indivduals acring as a group to repress other groups.

I never said anything of the sort and I will appreciate it you do not assign to me beliefs, thoughts, opinions, and motives that are not mine. I can speak for myself quite articulately.

rambot said:
Spending the most does not mean money is going where it is needed.

I completely agree. It is this op that is making the argument more money equals better outcomes.

rambot said:
Your money is being spent in the wrong places and likely not enough anyways.

Which is it? Misspent, or not enough? Not enough, even though more money does not mean better outcomes? Or is it more money to the people who've already demonstrated an inability to spend exorbitant amounts ineffectively?

rambot said:
American culture absolutely is messed up.

Yes, and two of the messed-up things about America is gazillions of dollars are misspent on mental health every day and the country looks to mental health messianically.

rambot said:
The hyperindividualism too many people in your culture suffer from; rhe angry influences on the young men in America.

You're a sociologist? Where'd you get those diagnoses?

rambot said:
There are a lot of reasons America is where it is and you guys wouldn't be able to fix that.

LOL! Then why spend more money? Why give more money to people who, according to you, cannot fix the problem when there are a lot of reasons why the problem exists?

rambot said:
Greed is obviously America's biggest root problem and many peoblems stem fe from that

And yet you think the solution is more money. That's pretty greedy.

rambot said:
You think teachers don't WANT to teach? Do you know any teachers?

I think you are losing the argument and resorting to non sequiturs and red herrings. Both I and my wife have been teachers, she at the grade school level and I at the high school and college level.

rambot said:
You need not believe this but better parenting would actually be really wonderful too please

Riiiiiiiight

. Nice ad hominem. The problem with Post #2 is Josheb, not the content of the post.

Josheb · May 9, 2025

Hans Blaster said:
There is no "Judeo-Christian worldview". There are Jewish worldviews; there are Christian worldviews. They are not the same as they are two DIFFERENT religions.

That is true in detail, not true in the larger sense. Just Google the phrase.

Hans Blaster said:
No religion should be incorporated into the public schools.

That is a commonly held viewpoint, but the fact is America did not have many of the problems it now has when the Bible and/or standardized religiously based morals were taught and private schools that still have those standards still don't have most of those problems.

Hans Blaster said:
Frequent school shootings is a thing of the late 90s and onward. There was no "Judeo-Christian" worldview in the public schools in the 80s or 70s or early 90s, just as there wasn't in the late 90s or the 21st century.

Yep. The Bible was removed from public schools in the 1960s and less than a generation later frequent school shootings began. It is at least correlative, if not causal.

Hans Blaster said:
As a Constitutionally oriented Christian you should both know this and support it.

Yes, and as I explained to @rambot, in a representative republic like America, the majority is supposed to rule. They get to rule as long as the rights of the majority are not violated. In a country in which 85% of the citizenry are theists, the theists get to rule. The reverse has happened in many ways...... and that could have explanatory function pertaining to the existence and rise of mental health and the treatment thereof.

Laodicean60 · May 9, 2025

rambot said:
Can we all agree that, without first having a detailed plan to restructure this funding, this is a failure policy.

You might get a plan when the funding is stopped Dec 2025.

BCP1928 · May 9, 2025

Josheb said:
That is true in detail, not true in the larger sense. Just Google the phrase.

That is a commonly held viewpoint, but the fact is America did not have many of the problems it now has when the Bible and/or standardized religiously based morals were taught and private schools that still have those standards still don't have most of those problems.

They just had different problems

Josheb said:
Yep. The Bible was removed from public schools in the 1960s and less than a generation later frequent school shootings began. It is at least correlative, if not causal.

It must just be correlative, since you appear to be considering the Bible as a magic talisman.

Josheb said:
Yes, and as I explained to @rambot, in a representative republic like America, the majority is supposed to rule. They get to rule as long as the rights of the majority are not violated. In a country in which 85% of the citizenry are theists, the theists get to rule. The reverse has happened in many ways...... and that could have explanatory function pertaining to the existence and rise of mental health and the treatment thereof.

So the rise in mental health problems is due to a dearth of Christian voters?

Aaron112 · May 9, 2025

Josheb said:
the country looks to mental health messianically.

False hope, idolatry, false harmful dangerous religion, death-dealing throughout society as written in Galatians etc.....

Josheb · May 9, 2025

BCP1928 said:
They just had different problems

It must just be correlative, since you appear to be considering the Bible as a magic talisman.

So the rise in mental health problems is due to a dearth of Christian voters?

What is the thesis statement of this op?

Josheb · May 9, 2025

Aaron112 said:
False hope, idolatry, false harmful dangerous religion, death-dealing throughout society as written in Galatians etc.....

What is the thesis statement of this op?

Mental health funding in schools

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