Trump has decided to revoke Harvard's tax-exempt status

Aryeh Jay · May 4, 2025

ThatRobGuy said:
the neo-Nazis and the white nationalists — because they should be condemned totally.

Wait, don't these guys to to events with Donald Trump at Mar a lago?

ThatRobGuy · May 4, 2025

BCP1928 said:
Correct. But I would also consider what Ted Cruz might have done to enrage the lunatic. Not necessarily to blame Ted Cruz, but to understand the situation better in the hope of defusing it.

With regards to Isreal/Palestine (and these protests and demonstrations), how much of that thought process is occurring, though?

In the case of Israel, has the fact that
- They've been surrounded by hostile countries who want to see them vanish for decades

- The whole reason there was a Jewish state/safe haven was created in the first place was because every other country in the region was either outright expelling them from their countries, or making their own countries unlivable for them. (rules spanning from "Jews are only allowed to hold lower-paying positions", "Jews are only allowed to travel 3 miles from their home", "not allowed to by or sell property", "not allowed to import/export assets"

Every been discussed or acknowledged in those circles?

To hear the way some of the "river to the sea" protestors talk, you'd have thought that the Israel/Arab conflicts started in October 2023. And Israel is just egregiously overreacting to an isolated attack with no prior catalyst.

There's been zero acknowledgement (that I've seen) of the historical aspects of this conflict that would explain why Israel perhaps may be a little sensitive to this kind of stuff, and what it may do to the psyche of people living in a place where they need an iron dome system to take down hundreds of hostile rockets each year, and having one of the hostile forces breach what they thought was their security blanket, and how that could very well spur on a "scorched earth" response.

Richard T · May 4, 2025

Even if the Trump admin tries this, Harvard will tie up the intention of removing their tax exempt status in court way longer than Trump.

The best pathway to help protect Jewish students is to pressure the accreditors to take action against those that discriminate and have a hostile environment for any students. Accreditors can hold schools accountable. Each school must match their mission statements and policies, etc. Here is part of Harvard's stated vision. "We have committed to creating and sustaining the conditions that enable all Harvard College students to experience an unparalleled educational journey that is intellectually, socially, and personally transformative." Mission, Vision, & History

With Jewish students it could be argued that Harvard has not created these conditions. If the accreditor does not take action, then change their leaders. "In the US, the U.S. Department of Education (ED) and the Council for Higher Education Accreditation (CHEA) jointly oversee regional accrediting agencies. CHEA, a non-profit organization, recognizes and supports regional accreditors, ensuring they adhere to high standards. The ED also recognizes and monitors these agencies to ensure they are upholding those standards."

What is ironic is that the very agency that could create change at Harvard is being gutted by Trump. While I agree that the Dept. of Ed, can be downsized, where are these regulators?

Goonie · May 4, 2025

ThatRobGuy said:
the president said, "You’re changing history. You’re changing culture. And you had people — and I’m not talking about the neo-Nazis and the white nationalists — because they should be condemned totally. But you had many people in that group other than neo-Nazis and white nationalists."

And hired a guy who gives the fascist/nazi salute at his inauguration. One judges him by his actions.

BCP1928 · May 4, 2025

ThatRobGuy said:
With regards to Isreal/Palestine (and these protests and demonstrations), how much of that thought process is occurring, though?

In the case of Israel, has the fact that
- They've been surrounded by hostile countries who want to see them vanish for decades

- The whole reason there was a Jewish state/safe haven was created in the first place was because every other country in the region was either outright expelling them from their countries, or making their own countries unlivable for them. (rules spanning from "Jews are only allowed to hold lower-paying positions", "Jews are only allowed to travel 3 miles from their home", "not allowed to by or sell property", "not allowed to import/export assets"

Every been discussed or acknowledged in those circles?

I doubt if such a grotesque and inaccurate oversimplification like that has ever been discussed in serious circles.

ThatRobGuy said:
View attachment 364508

To hear the way some of the "river to the sea" protestors talk, you'd have thought that the Israel/Arab conflicts started in October 2023. And Israel is just egregiously overreacting to an isolated attack with no prior catalyst.

There's been zero acknowledgement (that I've seen) of the historical aspects of this conflict that would explain why Israel perhaps may be a little sensitive to this kind of stuff, and what it may do to the psyche of people living in a place where they need an iron dome system to take down hundreds of hostile rockets each year, and having one of the hostile forces breach what they thought was their security blanket, and how that could very well spur on a "scorched earth" response.

I don't think that list proves what you think it does. First off is Morocco. Here is a reasonable treatment of the matter:

Migration of Moroccan Jews to Israel - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

No doubt you will dismiss it as atheistic left-wing antisemitism because it is Wikipedia and doesn't feed your biases, but my wife (who is Jewish) and I lived in Morocco for several years during the reign of Hassan II and looked into it--including, if you can imagine it, actually talking to some of the Jews who still lived there. Unfortunately, the President's (Dispensationalist) task force on antisemitism hadn't been formed at that time so we had no better source of information.

ThatRobGuy · May 4, 2025

BCP1928 said:
I doubt if such a grotesque and inaccurate oversimplification like that has ever been discussed in serious circles.

How is explaining what happened an "oversimplification" of what occurred?

Each of the examples of living conditions for Jews in Arab nations were 100% accurate.

In March 1964, the Syrian government issued a decree prohibiting Jews from traveling more than three miles from the limits of their hometowns.

Afghanistan made a rule that Jews could only be shoe-polishers

In Iraq, Jews faced escalating arrests, property seizures, and hangings.

In 1967, anti-semitic attacks began to appear in Sudanese newspapers following the Six-Day War, advocating the torture and murder of prominent Jewish community leaders, and there was a mass arrest of Jewish men.

1956: In Egypt, Jews were declared "Zionist enemies," imprisoned, expelled, and their property nationalized.

You mentioned Morocco, but whether it was intentional or not, that's a cherry picked "best case scenario" for Jews in the Arab world...and even that one's still not good.

Morocco

Pre-1948 Jewish Population: ~250,000
Catalysts:
- Pogroms in Oujda and Jerada (1948) killed dozens.
- While Morocco’s king attempted to protect Jews, emigration pressure increased as Moroccan nationalism grew.
- 1956–1967: Discriminatory policies and violent outbreaks.
- Mass exodus in the 1950s–60s to Israel and France.
Current Population: About 2,000 remain — the largest Jewish community in the Arab world today.

It was a very much a "We don't want Jews living here in our country" situation.

And when the international community carved out a piece of their ancestral homeland (the size of New Jersey) for them to live in, the Arab nations said "No, we don't want Jews to live there either"

If they're saying "we don't want Jews to live here" and "we don't want Jews to live there", then the operative words are "we don't want Jews to live"

Arab Opinion Index 2022: Executive Summary

The 2022 Arab Opinion Index is the eighth in a series of public opinion surveys conducted across the Arab world by the Arab Center for Research and Policy Studies in Doha, Qatar. The first survey was conducted in 2011, with others following in 2012–2013, 2014, 2015, 2016, 2017–2018, and...

arabcenterdc.org

According to the 2022 Arab Opinion Index, 84% of respondents across 14 Arab countries opposed recognition of Israel, with only 8% in favor. This sentiment was particularly strong in countries like Algeria and Mauritania, where opposition reached 99%

And we haven't even delved into the aspect of a two-state solution being offered up multiple times, and it being rejected.

ThatRobGuy · May 4, 2025

Goonie said:
And hired a guy who gives the fascist/nazi salute at his inauguration. One judges him by his actions.

Per Washington Post

The website of the Anti-Defamation League, which campaigns against anti-Semitism, defines the Nazi salute as “raising an outstretched right arm with the palm down,” and ranks it as “the most common white supremacist hand sign in the world.”

But after Mr. Musk’s stiff-arm salute, the Anti-Defamation League called it “an awkward gesture in a moment of enthusiasm, not a Nazi salute.”

Whatever Elon Musk was trying to invoke on Monday, his salute looked pretty close to a Nazi salute even if it was not identical. He first put his hand on his chest, which is not part of the Nazi salute, and could be closer to what those American school children did until 1942.

So, simple question, is the Trump administration too friendly to Israel, or are they like Hitler? Can't be both at the same time, I'll let you choose.

BCP1928 · May 4, 2025

ThatRobGuy said:
How is explaining what happened an "oversimplification" of what occurred?

Each of the examples of living conditions for Jews in Arab nations were 100% accurate.

In March 1964, the Syrian government issued a decree prohibiting Jews from traveling more than three miles from the limits of their hometowns.

Afghanistan made a rule that Jews could only be shoe-polishers

In Iraq, Jews faced escalating arrests, property seizures, and hangings.

In 1967, anti-semitic attacks began to appear in Sudanese newspapers following the Six-Day War, advocating the torture and murder of prominent Jewish community leaders, and there was a mass arrest of Jewish men.

1956: In Egypt, Jews were declared "Zionist enemies," imprisoned, expelled, and their property nationalized.

You mentioned Morocco, but whether it was intentional or not, that's a cherry picked "best case scenario" for Jews in the Arab world...and even that one's still not good.

Morocco

Pre-1948 Jewish Population: ~250,000

Catalysts:

Pogroms in Oujda and Jerada (1948) killed dozens.

While Morocco’s king attempted to protect Jews, emigration pressure increased as Moroccan nationalism grew.

1956–1967: Discriminatory policies and violent outbreaks.

Mass exodus in the 1950s–60s to Israel and France.

Current Population: About 2,000 remain — the largest Jewish community in the Arab world today.

Nothing before 1948? I wonder why?

ThatRobGuy said:
It was a very much a "We don't want Jews living here in our country" situation.

Jews lived there already, had been living there for centuries under Ottoman rule. Christians, too.

ThatRobGuy said:
And when the international community carved out a piece of their ancestral homeland

???

ThatRobGuy said:
(the size of New Jersey) for them to live in, the Arab nations said "No, we don't want Jews to live there either"

I don't blsim them. Why should they let that happen? A western style secular state, the indigenous inhabitants pushed aside--Jews and Christians too, BTW, and populated by European immigrants. Doesn't sound like something they would want.

ThatRobGuy said:
If they're saying "we don't want Jews to live here" and "we don't want Jews to live there", then the operative words are "we don't want Jews to live"

Arab Opinion Index 2022: Executive Summary

The 2022 Arab Opinion Index is the eighth in a series of public opinion surveys conducted across the Arab world by the Arab Center for Research and Policy Studies in Doha, Qatar. The first survey was conducted in 2011, with others following in 2012–2013, 2014, 2015, 2016, 2017–2018, and...

arabcenterdc.org

According to the 2022 Arab Opinion Index, 84% of respondents across 14 Arab countries opposed recognition of Israel, with only 8% in favor. This sentiment was particularly strong in countries like Algeria and Mauritania, where opposition reached 99%

Diplomatic recognition opposed? That's another clue!

ThatRobGuy said:
And we haven't even delved into the aspect of a two-state solution being offered up multiple times, and it being rejected.

Why do there need to be two states?

rambot · May 5, 2025

ThatRobGuy said:
Per Washington Post

The website of the Anti-Defamation League, which campaigns against anti-Semitism, defines the Nazi salute as “raising an outstretched right arm with the palm down,” and ranks it as “the most common white supremacist hand sign in the world.”

But after Mr. Musk’s stiff-arm salute, the Anti-Defamation League called it “an awkward gesture in a moment of enthusiasm, not a Nazi salute.”

Whatever Elon Musk was trying to invoke on Monday, his salute looked pretty close to a Nazi salute even if it was not identical. He first put his hand on his chest, which is not part of the Nazi salute, and could be closer to what those American school children did until 1942.

So, simple question, is the Trump administration too friendly to Israel, or are they like Hitler? Can't be both at the same time, I'll let you choose.

He's made or retweeted more than a few pretty clearly anti-semitic comments.
Also, it's quite probable that there are people on BOTH sides of that spectrum with his administration. But instead of looking for hypocrisy there, why not just consider Musk on a stand alone policy of whether he has made some suspect comments.

Hans Blaster · May 6, 2025

Richard T said:
Even if the Trump admin tries this, Harvard will tie up the intention of removing their tax exempt status in court way longer than Trump.

I give it three months. We're starting to see summary judgement on some of the more outrageous Trump actions and this one certainly qualifies. (One of the "law firm targeting" cases reached a final status on Friday.)

I don't know if you've seen the "letter" sent by Sec. of "Education" Linda McMahon to Harvard. It is petulant, incoherent, angry, and poorly written, but it illustrates that it *far* oversteps any reasonable response to the perceived issues at Harvard (even if fully true) and is specifically targeting Harvard for what is completely obvious to external viewers and demonstrated by this letter. (It really needs a "Cleveland Stadium letter" response.)

Richard T said:
The best pathway to help protect Jewish students is to pressure the accreditors to take action against those that discriminate and have a hostile environment for any students. Accreditors can hold schools accountable. Each school must match their mission statements and policies, etc. Here is part of Harvard's stated vision. "We have committed to creating and sustaining the conditions that enable all Harvard College students to experience an unparalleled educational journey that is intellectually, socially, and personally transformative." Mission, Vision, & History

With Jewish students it could be argued that Harvard has not created these conditions. If the accreditor does not take action, then change their leaders. "In the US, the U.S. Department of Education (ED) and the Council for Higher Education Accreditation (CHEA) jointly oversee regional accrediting agencies. CHEA, a non-profit organization, recognizes and supports regional accreditors, ensuring they adhere to high standards. The ED also recognizes and monitors these agencies to ensure they are upholding those standards."

What is ironic is that the very agency that could create change at Harvard is being gutted by Trump. While I agree that the Dept. of Ed, can be downsized, where are these regulators?

rambot · May 7, 2025

Hans Blaster said:
I give it three months. We're starting to see summary judgement on some of the more outrageous Trump actions and this one certainly qualifies. (One of the "law firm targeting" cases reached a final status on Friday.)

I don't know if you've seen the "letter" sent by Sec. of "Education" Linda McMahon to Harvard. It is petulant, incoherent, angry, and poorly written, but it illustrates that it *far* oversteps any reasonable response to the perceived issues at Harvard (even if fully true) and is specifically targeting Harvard for what is completely obvious to external viewers and demonstrated by this letter. (It really needs a "Cleveland Stadium letter" response.)

As a teacher....please oh please link the LETTER! I would LOVE to read it!

Belk · May 7, 2025

rambot said:
As a teacher....please oh please link the LETTER! I would LOVE to read it!

Seconded.

The IbanezerScrooge · May 7, 2025

rambot said:
As a teacher....please oh please link the LETTER! I would LOVE to read it!

Belk said:
Seconded.

here you go!

DaisyDay · May 7, 2025

Response from X formerly known as Twitter:

Hans Blaster · May 7, 2025

The IbanezerScrooge said:
here you go!

Thanks. I should scrolled down before spending 10 minutes trying to find a clean copy of the letter that wasn't on the functionally broken X.com site.

No official response has been posted yet.

Meowzltov · May 7, 2025

DaisyDay said:
Is it the president's place to direct who does and who does not get non-profit status? Previous presidents let the specialists determine if an institution did or did not meet the criteria. Donald's criteria seems to be based on his personal opinion and whether or not sufficient fealty to himself has been rendered.

THIS.

I actually agree that Harvard should not be receiving federal aid due to its systemic problems with anti-Semitism.

However, I'm really, REALLY concerned at the way this president doesn't defer to qualified experts, but sets up his own (often uninformed) feelings as the sole standard for what is allowed and what not. He is incredibly authoritarian, believing the President has the right to decide things as he wishes without regards to checks and balances, the constitution, or respect for the law.

It is therefore very difficult for me to know how to perceive this turn of events. As a Jew, I'm grateful for the help. But as an American, I have a sense of dread that something even worse is in the making.

Meowzltov · May 7, 2025

Hans Blaster said:
I give it three months. We're starting to see summary judgement on some of the more outrageous Trump actions and this one certainly qualifies. (One of the "law firm targeting" cases reached a final status on Friday.)

I don't know if you've seen the "letter" sent by Sec. of "Education" Linda McMahon to Harvard. It is petulant, incoherent, angry, and poorly written, but it illustrates that it *far* oversteps any reasonable response to the perceived issues at Harvard (even if fully true) and is specifically targeting Harvard for what is completely obvious to external viewers and demonstrated by this letter. (It really needs a "Cleveland Stadium letter" response.)

I thought this was an exceptional post. Very good points and suggestions.

Valletta · May 9, 2025

Richard T said:
What is ironic is that the very agency that could create change at Harvard is being gutted by Trump. While I agree that the Dept. of Ed, can be downsized, where are these regulators?

No irony at all. The very agency that DID NOT create change at Harvard is being gutted by Trump.

Trump has decided to revoke Harvard's tax-exempt status

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