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Old Catholic
- Thread starter FireDragon76
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Eastside of Brisbane. What am I looking for? Same things as many of us: God, peace, contentment, something worthwhile to live and strive for; in a Church I appreciate an inspiring liturgy, a thoughtful sermon, room and freedom to kneel, genuflect, and cross my cares away
; warm fellowship over a meal or a pint, a balanced dose of scripture, tradition and reason, and I'm not averse to candles, bells and incense 
. Room for doubt without cries of "heretic", an opportunity to love and serve, and open discussion about the questions without expectations of easy answers.
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Sorry to confuse you. To add to that confusion, I actually started in a Christian brethren assembly as a teenager; was drawn during university to Anglo-Catholicism (Forward in Faith/TAC - i.e. just inside and later (as part of the same community) just outside the official Anglican Communion). Moved a couple of times, and my own high Anglican and my wife's Baptist tendencies met somewhere in the middle, so we settled into a Lutheran church. We've recently moved house again, still within driving distance of our old Lutheran church, but I have had a look at what's a little closer. A Roman Catholic church is nearest, but I don't know if I can swim the rest of the way across the Tiber, and I doubt my wife would follow. A tiny "Ecumenical Catholic" church is not much further, but it's really Anglicanism (not necessarily TAC) that seems most attractive at the moment.
Oh, and did I mention an attraction to Quakerism?
Yes, I know. I'm a serial church-hopper. Lord, have mercy.
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Albion
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I appreciate that explanation. Many of us have had journeys that are somewhat similar, but the reason I was not clear in this case was that I wasn't sure what you were looking for exactly. I'm not an Anglo-Catholic, but I have a hard time liking--in the long run--any church, however good in all other ways, that isn't liturgical. So, I appreciate that problem, all right.And to make things murkier, we often think that, through study, we can determine which is the right church...only to find that there isn't one of that denomination anywhere near us.
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Eastside of Brisbane. What am I looking for? Same things as many of us: God, peace, contentment, something worthwhile to live and strive for; in a Church I appreciate an inspiring liturgy, a thoughtful sermon, room and freedom to kneel, genuflect, and cross my cares away
You seem to want a lot and I don't think I can help you with it. Sorry, I am trying to help you but with that answer I cannot as it tells me basically nothing. I am sorry if that seems rude & it not meant to but I truly don't know how to respond. Except to say your just going to have to shop around and find your best fit because you are not going to find a perfect fit.
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Wasn't exactly asking for help, but I appreciate your courtesy. I have no illusions that I'll find "a perfect fit", and at the risk of sounding rather cliché, if I do find a perfect church then I'd better stay away.
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- Apr 30, 2013
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Williams is Affirming Catholic and is in line with my own views about homosexuality- he supports the full inclusion of gays and lesbians into the Church. As Archbishop of Canterburry, he put some of that aside in the name of unity, but he is decidedly liberal on that particular issue, and unapologetic.
The local Episcopalians are at odds with the national church, and I've been told in no uncertain terms by minor clergy here that I'll not get anywhere due to my support for LGBT rights. Sometimes I have thought about discerning a call to ministry, so that's something I've considered. So that's why I'm interested in Old Catholicism.
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Rowan Williams: Church ‘wrong’ about homosexuality but Cameron has embarrassed us on gay marriage - PinkNews.co.uk
His views on homosexuality haven't really changed since delivering his paper, The Body's Grace decades ago.
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ebia
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FireDragon76 said:
That doesn't tell me what he actually said - it's someone's spin on what he said, which is almost never the same thing with Rowan.
"The Body's Grace" doesn't actually say all that much.
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I'm still looking into Old Catholicism... having made a firm decision not to join Eastern Orthodoxy, with the guidance and blessing of my Orthodox priest. It was not feeding me spiritually (and that's not just a cop out- my prayer life was struggling) and I disagreed with the anti-modernist mindset of many Orthodox Christians, while having a deep appreciation for the mystical theology of the Eastern Orthodox Church (but I'm opening up to the possibility that Western Christianity will have room for a mystic like me).
The bishop I know leading the local Old Catholic/Independent Catholic Church gets his apostolic line from Carlos Duarte-Costa, who was excommunicated from the Roman church in the 40's for criticizing the Vatican and the Brazilian RC hierarchy for helping Nazi's escape Germany. Many people consider him the father of many "Episcopi vagantes". But the congregation seems very friendly and the worship is closer to my preferences than the local Episcopal Church (which reminds me more of high church Presbyterians in some ways), and their stance on social issues is conservative and typical of southern Evangelicals... and I'm much more moderate or even liberal in terms of my politics. Still, it is a tough decision. I've been visiting both the local Episcopal cathedral church and the Independent Catholic church, looking for a sign from God and waiting, as well as doing some reading of Ignatian spirituality and discernment.
The bishop I know leading the local Old Catholic/Independent Catholic Church gets his apostolic line from Carlos Duarte-Costa, who was excommunicated from the Roman church in the 40's for criticizing the Vatican and the Brazilian RC hierarchy for helping Nazi's escape Germany. Many people consider him the father of many "Episcopi vagantes". But the congregation seems very friendly and the worship is closer to my preferences than the local Episcopal Church (which reminds me more of high church Presbyterians in some ways), and their stance on social issues is conservative and typical of southern Evangelicals... and I'm much more moderate or even liberal in terms of my politics. Still, it is a tough decision. I've been visiting both the local Episcopal cathedral church and the Independent Catholic church, looking for a sign from God and waiting, as well as doing some reading of Ignatian spirituality and discernment.
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So... I'm back on Christian Forums after about a decade, and was checking out some of my old posts and comments. I see you're still active, so thought I'd risk a reply (and resurrecting a 12-year dead thread in the process).
I'm curious where you ended up: Episcopalian, Independent Catholic, or somewhere else?
Shortly after my comment in 2013, I decided to drop in on the United Ecumenical Catholic Church I mentioned. While my wife and I did end up going to a Roman parish together for a while, I found myself visiting the UECC parish more and more often. Incidentally, the Ecumenical Catholic Church (founded in California by Mark Shirilau, from which the UCCA is a spiritual heir) is considered an ICAB (Brazilian Catholic) offshoot. Long story short, I ended up ordained a deacon in the UECC in 2019, and a priest in 2022. Though our numbers are small and dwindling, I find it a wonderful little community.
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I became Lutheran, and now consider myself in the broader European Evangelical tradition. I left my old Mainline Lutheranism church, after a scandal that happened after COVID, sadly and with much regret.
I now am in a vaguely Reformed church, the United Church of Christ, which is somewhat more liberal than my Mainline Lutheran background.
I'm also interested in subjects like integral spirituality or interspirituality in general, so I have definitely become more liberal than in the past. In some ways, the UCC is a good fit for me in that respect, in other ways it isn't.
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You know what they say... if the you of five (or twelve) years ago wouldn't consider the you of today a heretic, you're not growing spiritually.
My own trajectory had been from fundamentalism/traditionalism to one of theological liberalism.
My own trajectory had been from fundamentalism/traditionalism to one of theological liberalism.
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You know what they say... if the you of five (or twelve) years ago wouldn't consider the you of today a heretic, you're not growing spiritually.
My own trajectory had been from fundamentalism/traditionalism to one of theological liberalism.
I think a certain amount of that is the norm as part of spiritual maturity.
If I lived in a less conservative diocese, I would probably be persuaded to join an Episcopalian church, if no good Lutheran church were available.
I prefer high church worship (even though I'm currently in a low church denomination). In my area, there are only one or two churches that are relatively "normal" as far as Episcopalian churches go, and they aren't close to where I live.
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