- Jun 18, 2006
- 3,854,840
- 52,367
- Country
- United States
- Gender
- Male
- Faith
- Baptist
- Marital Status
- Married
- Politics
- US-Republican
Upvote
0
-
Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.
I will scientifically prove the existence of God to you
- Thread starter The_Order
- Start date
Perpetual Student
Fighting ignorance, one textbook at the time
- Jan 28, 2025
- 130
- 109
- 54
- Country
- Belgium
- Gender
- Male
- Faith
- Humanist
- Marital Status
- Private
Irrelevant, since the existence of god is still not established.
Upvote
0
- Jun 18, 2006
- 3,854,840
- 52,367
- Country
- United States
- Gender
- Male
- Faith
- Baptist
- Marital Status
- Married
- Politics
- US-Republican
Only if you shirk cause-and-effect.
But then, science can take a hike, can't it?
Joshua 24:31 And Israel served the LORD all the days of Joshua, and all the days of the elders that overlived Joshua, and which had known all the works of the LORD, that he had done for Israel.
Acts 15:18 Known unto God are all his works from the beginning of the world.
Upvote
0
partinobodycular
Well-Known Member
- Jun 8, 2021
- 2,570
- 1,036
- Country
- United States
- Faith
- Agnostic
- Marital Status
- Single
Oops, if you're going by cause and effect then the two things have to be simultaneous, but then you don't think of time the way that most people think of time, so how are we possibly supposed to know what AV thinks?
Then again, why should we care? 
Upvote
0
Yttrium
Mad Scientist
- May 19, 2019
- 4,430
- 4,927
- Country
- United States
- Gender
- Male
- Faith
- Skeptic
- Marital Status
- Single
Snowflakes. They have patterns to them. They aren't perfectly symmetrical, but they do have a degree of order. They formed from fairly disorderly water vapor. We've learned how snowflakes formed, and there was no intelligence directing their formation.
As another example, planets are rounded. A sphere is a pretty orderly shape. Planets aren't perfectly spherical, but they can sure look close to it from a distance. They are rounded by gravity, in a very understandable natural process. No intelligence is necessary to intervene in this process.
Molecules can combine together in nature to form complex patterns without intelligent intervention. I see so many things like this that I have to conclude that order can indeed arise naturally.
Now, I'm not ruling out an intelligence getting involved on some grand scale. However, you seem to be just asserting that order is established by intelligence/will/power, and I don't see the necessity for that.
Last edited:
Upvote
0
- Jun 18, 2006
- 3,854,840
- 52,367
- Country
- United States
- Gender
- Male
- Faith
- Baptist
- Marital Status
- Married
- Politics
- US-Republican
Oops, if you're going by cause and effect then the two things have to be simultaneous, but then you don't think of time the way that most people think of time, so how are we possibly supposed to know what AV thinks?
Suit yourself.
If you choose not to care, then you'll condemn yourself to going around looking for evidence for God.
You'll walk right past a cross, hand someone money with IN GOD WE TRUST ON IT, drive past five churches behind a car with a bumper sticker that says JESUS SAVES, while all the time searching for evidence that God exists.
Upvote
0
Yes ..its interesting, IMHO, how Creationist/IDers conflate causation with control. Its not necessary to have the Laws of Physics (including the universal constants), as being 'controls' on the universe .. but it is sufficient, (maybe even necessary?), for them to be agents of causality(?)
Controlling agents gain self-control via evolution and learning, and this is also how we also evidently gain control over some aspects of our environment. The causal laws of physics, I think, are the technologies, (or by-products), we developed for gaining that control, (by making use of their predictive capacity).
A 'Creator' might be a necessary agent in a brute-force controlled universe, but in a causal universe, human intelligence is evidently the agent of control, using our technologies.
Upvote
0
partinobodycular
Well-Known Member
- Jun 8, 2021
- 2,570
- 1,036
- Country
- United States
- Faith
- Agnostic
- Marital Status
- Single
You'll walk right past a cross, hand someone money with IN GOD WE TRUST ON IT, drive past five churches behind a car with a bumper sticker that says JESUS SAVES, while all the time searching for evidence that God exists.
The tragic thing is, I'll even participate in a Christian forum and still not see any evidence that God exists. Nudge, nudge... you're not helping.
Upvote
0
partinobodycular
Well-Known Member
- Jun 8, 2021
- 2,570
- 1,036
- Country
- United States
- Faith
- Agnostic
- Marital Status
- Single
I also go around looking for evidence that reality is a computer simulation. Figuring stuff out is kind of what I live for... not trying to appease some imaginary overlord in the sky.
Upvote
0
- Jun 18, 2006
- 3,854,840
- 52,367
- Country
- United States
- Gender
- Male
- Faith
- Baptist
- Marital Status
- Married
- Politics
- US-Republican
What's tragic is, you probably have a Bible in your house and use It to collect dust, don't you?
Nudge, nudge... you're not helping.
Well if you've been here four years and still aren't convinced God exists because of a lack of scientific evidence, your faith in science is stronger than my faith in God.
Upvote
0
- Jun 18, 2006
- 3,854,840
- 52,367
- Country
- United States
- Gender
- Male
- Faith
- Baptist
- Marital Status
- Married
- Politics
- US-Republican
Seriously?
God isn't going to show up on your calculator.
Would you sponsor a search for the Loch Ness monster, if the crew you were sponsoring had your attitude?
Upvote
0
partinobodycular
Well-Known Member
- Jun 8, 2021
- 2,570
- 1,036
- Country
- United States
- Faith
- Agnostic
- Marital Status
- Single
Actually, after having read them countless times I gladly let them collect dust now. If it's meaning isn't in here
by now, then it was never in there to begin with. It wasn't a book that Christ promised to send, so why do you keep looking there?I've been on Christian forums for closer to forty years, and it isn't scientific evidence that I'm lacking... I couldn't care less. It's the lack of empathy in those who claim to speak in His name that bothers me. The problem with the world doesn't lie with science's lack of evidence, it lies with Christianity's lack of evidence.
Upvote
0
partinobodycular
Well-Known Member
- Jun 8, 2021
- 2,570
- 1,036
- Country
- United States
- Faith
- Agnostic
- Marital Status
- Single
Yup, seriously.
I never expected Him to. But I was hoping that He might show up on a Christian forum. For the most part I've been sadly disappointed. But every once in a while, here and there, there are glimmers. Oddly though, that glimmer isn't always among the Christians.
Upvote
0
- Jun 18, 2006
- 3,854,840
- 52,367
- Country
- United States
- Gender
- Male
- Faith
- Baptist
- Marital Status
- Married
- Politics
- US-Republican
I take it you read the part in the Bible where John the Baptist had a lapse of faith while in prison, sent two of his disciples to ask Jesus if He was who He claimed He was, and Jesus responded by telling them to go back and tell John what they witnessed?
Matthew 11:2 Now when John had heard in the prison the works of Christ, he sent two of his disciples,
3 And said unto him, Art thou he that should come, or do we look for another?
4 Jesus answered and said unto them, Go and shew John again those things which ye do hear and see:
5 The blind receive their sight, and the lame walk, the lepers are cleansed, and the deaf hear, the dead are raised up, and the poor have the gospel preached to them.
6 And blessed is he, whosoever shall not be offended in me.
Would you buy their story?
Or would you be like Thomas and refuse to believe unless you saw it yourself?
John 20:25 The other disciples therefore said unto him, We have seen the Lord. But he said unto them, Except I shall see in his hands the print of the nails, and put my finger into the print of the nails, and thrust my hand into his side, I will not believe.
Upvote
0
- Jun 18, 2006
- 3,854,840
- 52,367
- Country
- United States
- Gender
- Male
- Faith
- Baptist
- Marital Status
- Married
- Politics
- US-Republican
Oh, He's here alright.
Matthew 18:20 For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.
I'm truly sorry to hear that.
Yes, we Christians can be a big turn off in leading unbelievers to Christ.
And for my contribution in that area, I sincerely apologize.
Upvote
0
- Jun 29, 2010
- 4,182
- 3,493
- Gender
- Male
- Faith
- Christian
- Marital Status
- Married
- Politics
- US-Others
Hold on to those "glimmers", they are the Lord tapping you on the shoulder.
Then a great and powerful wind tore the mountains apart and shattered the rocks before the Lord, but the Lord was not in the wind. After the wind there was an earthquake, but the Lord was not in the earthquake. After the earthquake came a fire, but the Lord was not in the fire. And after the fire came a gentle whisper. 1 King 19:11-12
Upvote
0
We have plenty of observations of order arising without intelligence involved. Everything from the formation of mineral crystals to orbital paths to protein formation to hydrological sorting.
I reject your conclusion as your premises are contradicted by available evidence.
Upvote
0
- Jun 29, 2010
- 4,182
- 3,493
- Gender
- Male
- Faith
- Christian
- Marital Status
- Married
- Politics
- US-Others
How do you know there is no intelligence involved in these phenomena?
Upvote
0
Similar threads
