What does it mean to fall away as a Christian?

QuestionQuest74 · Feb 12, 2024

Does it mean to live in sin or unbelief ?

Maria Billingsley · Feb 12, 2024

QuestionQuest74 said:
Does it mean to live in sin or unbelief ?

Living in sin is the proof that one has fallen away from belief to unbelief. Those who have been regenerated with His Holy Spirit strive to obey Him because they love Him. That being said, a person can " quench" His Holy Spirit however , continually rejecting His work in them can lead to apostasy. Blessings.

Laodicean60 · Feb 12, 2024

Maria Billingsley said:
Living in sin is the proof that one has fallen away from belief to unbelief. Those who have been regenerated with His Holy Spirit strive to obey Him because they love Him. That being said, a person can " quench" His Holy Spirit however , continually rejecting His work in them can lead to apostasy. Blessings.

"What does it mean to fall away as a Christian?" This is a million-dollar question for me as it relates to the end times. I'm more inclined to think it's unbelief. Living in sin? Boy, looking back I lived in one form of sin or another till today. I live in sin while on these forums when it comes to thoughts. I feel like Paul in Romans on some of the things I do.

QuestionQuest74 · Feb 12, 2024

Maria Billingsley said:
Living in sin is the proof that one has fallen away from belief to unbelief. Those who have been regenerated with His Holy Spirit strive to obey Him because they love Him. That being said, a person can " quench" His Holy Spirit however ,

Maria Billingsley said:
continually rejecting His work in them can lead to apostasy. Blessings.

Can you give an example of this ?

ViaCrucis · Feb 12, 2024

QuestionQuest74 said:
Does it mean to live in sin or unbelief ?

In Paul's first letter to Timothy he says this:

"This charge I entrust to you, Timothy, my child, in accordance with the prophecies previously made about you, that by them you may wage the good warfare, holding faith and a good conscience. By rejecting this, some have made shipwreck of their faith, among whom are Hymenaeus and Alexander, whom I have handed over to Satan that they may learn not to blaspheme." - 1 Timothy 1:18-20

Let's break that down. Firstly, we need to remember that this is a personal letter from Paul to Timothy. Timothy is a pastor, and Paul is counseling Timothy reminding him of his responsibilities as a pastor. Paul viewed himself as Timothy's spiritual father, and thus he can call Timothy "my child", so Paul is speaking as Timothy's spiritual father in Christ here. In this Paul entrusts Timothy, based on what Timothy already received and knew, to persevere in what he has been called and ordained to do--to uphold the true faith and live rightly with a good and clean conscience.

After this counsel, Paul reminds Timothy that there are those who didn't do this, they threw the faith away. The words he uses are "made shipwreck of their faith", Paul is saying that these people, because they did not contend for the faith and uphold it have, like a ship's pilot, steered their faith into rocks destroying what they had. He specifically names two: Hymenaeus and Alexander. Paul doesn't go into any details about what they did, but Paul gives us more information in his second letter.

In 2 Timothy 2:17 Paul writes,

"But avoid irreverent babble, for it will lead people into more ungodliness, and their talk will spread like gangrene. Among them are Hymenaeus and Philetus, who have swerved from the truth, saying the resurrection has already happened. They are upsetting the faith of some." - 2 Timothy 2:16-18

While Alexander isn't named in this second instance, and a new person, Philetus is mentioned; both mention the same Hymenaeus.

From this we can learn that, in particular, what these men were doing were actively spreading false teaching. They were claiming the resurrection had already taken place (compare to what Paul writes in 2 Thessalonians 2:1-2). In this they weren't only believing false teaching, they were actively spreading and advocating false teaching, and it was upsetting the faith of others in the church. It was damaging and hurtful--rather than sticking to the true faith, these people were teaching something new and different, heresy. And they were causing a massive disruption and harming the faith of ordinary believing Christians and causing them distress. So Paul speaks of them as examples of those who shipwreck their faith, and so Paul "hands them over to Satan", in other words they were no longer welcome to come to the assembly, with the intent that they would recognize their wrong, learn humility, repent, and then come back fully restored. Though the statement Paul makes in 2 Timothy would suggest they were still acting as false teachers even after being excommunicated.

So what is a shipwreck of faith? It's as bad as it sounds. Someone who believes, but then through false teaching or by sin, or some other problem ends up shipwrecking themselves, they actively destroy their faith. And the only antidote to that problem, is by sticking close to Jesus, to believing in His word, in abiding in what has been received from the beginning, being humble and repentant.

If we go our own way, do things how we want, we are going to hurt ourselves.

This isn't a "you better shape up or you'll be shipped out", this is "don't be led astray from what you have already received in Jesus".

You trust in Jesus? Good, He has your back. He is everything you need. But if we actively and deliberately walk away from Jesus, then we are throwing everything we have away.

Here's an analogy: The warning is here is like, "Don't walk into oncoming traffic, you're likely going to get hurt", if you aren't walking into traffic then you're doing well. Don't walk into traffic, don't jump into crocodile infested waters, don't touch fire. Jesus has your back, so don't turn your back on Jesus.

-CryptoLutheran

SavedByGrace3 · Feb 12, 2024

QuestionQuest74 said:
Does it mean to live in sin or unbelief ?

I think it is more like sliding away or slipping away. A gradual process of ignoring God and spiritual things. One doubt and one tiny sin at a time goes unconfessed. Prayer life slows down. Love grows cold.

Hebrews 2
1 Therefore we ought to give the more earnest heed to the things which we have heard, lest at any time we should let them slip. 2For if the word spoken by angels was stedfast, and every transgression and disobedience received a just recompence of reward; 3How shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation; which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed unto us by them that heard him;

1 Corinthians 15:1-2 KJV
1 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;
2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.

Hebrews 10:23 KJV
23 Let us hold fast the profession of our faith without wavering; (for he is faithful that promised

Mark 4:18-19 KJV
18 And these are they which are sown among thorns; such as hear the word,
19 And the cares of this world, and the deceitfulness of riches, and the lusts of other things entering in, choke the word, and it becometh unfruitful.

QuestionQuest74 · Feb 13, 2024

ViaCrucis said:
In Paul's first letter to Timothy he says this:

"This charge I entrust to you, Timothy, my child, in accordance with the prophecies previously made about you, that by them you may wage the good warfare, holding faith and a good conscience. By rejecting this, some have made shipwreck of their faith, among whom are Hymenaeus and Alexander, whom I have handed over to Satan that they may learn not to blaspheme." - 1 Timothy 1:18-20

Let's break that down. Firstly, we need to remember that this is a personal letter from Paul to Timothy. Timothy is a pastor, and Paul is counseling Timothy reminding him of his responsibilities as a pastor. Paul viewed himself as Timothy's spiritual father, and thus he can call Timothy "my child", so Paul is speaking as Timothy's spiritual father in Christ here. In this Paul entrusts Timothy, based on what Timothy already received and knew, to persevere in what he has been called and ordained to do--to uphold the true faith and live rightly with a good and clean conscience.

After this counsel, Paul reminds Timothy that there are those who didn't do this, they threw the faith away. The words he uses are "made shipwreck of their faith", Paul is saying that these people, because they did not contend for the faith and uphold it have, like a ship's pilot, steered their faith into rocks destroying what they had. He specifically names two: Hymenaeus and Alexander. Paul doesn't go into any details about what they did, but Paul gives us more information in his second letter.

In 2 Timothy 2:17 Paul writes,

"But avoid irreverent babble, for it will lead people into more ungodliness, and their talk will spread like gangrene. Among them are Hymenaeus and Philetus, who have swerved from the truth, saying the resurrection has already happened. They are upsetting the faith of some." - 2 Timothy 2:16-18

While Alexander isn't named in this second instance, and a new person, Philetus is mentioned; both mention the same Hymenaeus.

From this we can learn that, in particular, what these men were doing were actively spreading false teaching. They were claiming the resurrection had already taken place (compare to what Paul writes in 2 Thessalonians 2:1-2). In this they weren't only believing false teaching, they were actively spreading and advocating false teaching, and it was upsetting the faith of others in the church. It was damaging and hurtful--rather than sticking to the true faith, these people were teaching something new and different, heresy. And they were causing a massive disruption and harming the faith of ordinary believing Christians and causing them distress. So Paul speaks of them as examples of those who shipwreck their faith, and so Paul "hands them over to Satan", in other words they were no longer welcome to come to the assembly, with the intent that they would recognize their wrong, learn humility, repent, and then come back fully restored. Though the statement Paul makes in 2 Timothy would suggest they were still acting as false teachers even after being excommunicated.

So what is a shipwreck of faith? It's as bad as it sounds. Someone who believes, but then through false teaching or by sin, or some other problem ends up shipwrecking themselves, they actively destroy their faith. And the only antidote to that problem, is by sticking close to Jesus, to believing in His word, in abiding in what has been received from the beginning, being humble and repentant.

If we go our own way, do things how we want, we are going to hurt ourselves.

This isn't a "you better shape up or you'll be shipped out", this is "don't be led astray from what you have already received in Jesus".

You trust in Jesus? Good, He has your back. He is everything you need. But if we actively and deliberately walk away from Jesus, then we are throwing everything we have away.

Here's an analogy: The warning is here is like, "Don't walk into oncoming traffic, you're likely going to get hurt", if you aren't walking into traffic then you're doing well. Don't walk into traffic, don't jump into crocodile infested waters, don't touch fire. Jesus has your back, so don't turn your back on Jesus.

-CryptoLutheran

So it means to consciously go against God or his word ?

ViaCrucis · Feb 14, 2024

QuestionQuest74 said:
So it means to consciously go against God or his word ?

More than that, it is an abandonment of faith.

It's not like losing or rejecting faith is like we trip over our shoelaces and our keys fall out of our pocket. It involves a deliberate rejection and abandonment.

The warnings in Scripture we have aren't there to make us afraid or lose confidence, but to remind us that Jesus is all that we have, and we need to hold onto Him. We can have all confidence in Christ, be bold in our faith and trust in Him. Look to the objective promises of God, God's objective works and gifts, what He says in His word, what He gives in His Sacraments. Look to your baptism, look to the Lord's Supper, hear what God says in the Gospel. That's our boldness: God's grace. The certainty of Christ and what He has done. But apart from Him, we have nothing.

-CryptoLutheran

SavedByGrace3 · Feb 14, 2024

There is the situation where people are just weak. They want to do good. They want to please God. But they just do not have the strength to reach that next rung on the ladder. It is not that they are wicked and rebellious.. they just fail.
Then there are the people who know what God wants them to do. They actually believe, but they rebel. They openly refuse to obey and stubbornly reject what the Word of God says.

Clare73 · Feb 14, 2024

QuestionQuest74 said:
Does it mean to live in sin or unbelief ?

To fall away is to apostasize; i.e., apostasy, which is to abandon, give up, reject (the Christian faith); i.e., unbelief.

Peacemaker1 · Feb 15, 2024

Well the ones who have no root, cant endure, so that is falling away. ( the wicked)

But if someone has a root, ( in an honest and good heart to bring forth fruit with patience) they are exhorted to not be led away with that error of the wicked, being led away from the faith, falling from stedfastness.

Luke 8:13 They on the rock are they, which, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, which for a while believe, and in time of temptation fall away.

2 Peter 3:17 Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness.

Dan Perez · Mar 10, 2025

QuestionQuest74 said:
So it means to consciously go against God or his word ?

And read 1 Cor 5:1-5 what happened to this person , Paul turned him to SATAN for the Death of the flesh , in order

that the spirit MAY be Saved in the DAY of the Lord Jesus .

dan p

stevevw · Mar 11, 2025

I think its a good question. I have been thinking about this as well. In my journey to determine Gods will and how I should live in this world. I think its a lot harder today than it was in the past when even the public square honored God and had Christian values.

But lately that has all changed and God has been rejected. The end result of a rebellion against God in mid 20th century. So the world has become much more secular and even creeping into the churches.

So belief and teachings have become watered down as a result. What may seem today as the Christian thing to do maybe a false teaching in truth. So we have to scrutinise more and ensure this is proper teaching otherwise we be decieved by the wolves Christ talked about.

I think as Paul said we can tell by the good fruits of the spirit. Not to be confused with the false ideology of good deeds under human made ideologies like Humanism, Feminism, egalitarianism or Woke PC.

I always have a broad measure which is Christians and Christ church should be in conflict with secular ideologies. Christ said we would be persecuted for standing on His truth.

So if as Christians and a church we are building some egalitarian utopia on earth that is the same as secular society and they align then that is the bad fruit. From that will come bad fruit and we have seen this with divisions not only in secular society but the same divisions in the church.

So I say look at Gods word and the teachings of Christ and the disciples to the church and to individuals. Follow this and you will find you will come in conflict with the world. Then you know your on the right track. Its the logical conclusion of following Christ. It doesn't mean go looking for trouble. But when trouble finds you you are willing to stand on Christs truth to the death.

I believe because the church and Christians have compromised belief and the teachings so much that as a result there will be bold Christians who will stand up to challenge other soi called Christians and the world. We see whenever there is a great falling away God always punishes and sends His messagers.

It may be happening now as we see the change in climate throughout the world. How some are standing up against the insane ideology that denies God. But these great messagers will speak in ways that cannot be denied in truth, reasoning, and spiritual decernment with great authority.

Going back to the root, to the basic teachings and how Christians and the church was after Christ.

fhansen · Mar 11, 2025

QuestionQuest74 said:
Does it mean to live in sin or unbelief ?

Living in sin means we've failed to love which means we've fallen back away from God, or never really knew Him to begin with.

setst777 · Mar 12, 2025

QuestionQuest74 said:
Can you give an example of this ?

1 Thessalonians 4:3-8 (Paul admonishing Christians) 3 For this is the will of God: your sanctification, that you abstain from sexual immorality, 4 that each one of you know how to control his own body in sanctification and honor, 5 not in the passion of lust, even as the Gentiles who don’t know God, 6 that no one should take advantage of and wrong a brother or sister in this matter. The Lord will punish all those who commit such sins, as we keep warning you. 7 For God did not call us [Christians] to be impure, but to live a sanctified life. 8 Therefore, anyone who rejects this instruction rejects God, not man. This is the very God who gives to you his Holy Spirit.

The Spirit gives Eternal Life as the Christian continually sow to the Spirit without giving up.
Good works are the fruit of the Spirit as we sow to the Spirit - which is the authentification of continued faith.

Galatians 6:7-9 Paul admonishes Christians 7 Do not be deceived. God is not mocked! For whatever a man sows, he will also reap. 8 He who sows to his flesh will from the flesh reap corruption. But he who sows to the Spirit will {{{from the Spirit}}} reap Eternal Life. 9 Let {{{us}}} not be weary in doing good, for {{{we}}} will reap in due season, {{{if we}}} do not give up.

Galatians 5:24-25 Those who belong to Christ [saved] have crucified the flesh with its passions and lusts. 25 If we [Paul includes himself] live by the Spirit, let us also keep in step with the Spirit.

Therefore, to continue to have life, the Christian, if his faith is authentic, is obligated to live by the Spirit, putting to death the deeds of the body, to have life from the Spirit.

Romans 8:12-14 [Admonishing Christians] Therefore, brothers and sisters, we [Christians] are obligated, but it is not to the flesh to live according to it. 13 For if you live according to the flesh, you will Die. But if by the Spirit you put to death the misdeeds of the body, you will Live. 14 For those who are led by the Spirit of God are the children of God.

The Spirit leads to life as the Christian continues in the faith, walking in the Spirit.

Spirit-indwelt Christians can resist the Spirit when they grieve (Ephesians 4:17-32), quench (1 Thessalonians 5:19), insult/enrage (Hebrews 10:24-31), reject (1 Thessalonians 4:1-8), and test (Acts 5:3, 9) the Spirit who indwells and gives life by our faith. By doing so, they are rejecting God. Unless such as these repent, they will be lost.

1 Thessalonians 4:7-8 … 7 For God did not call us [Christians] to be impure, but to live a sanctified life. 8 Therefore, anyone who rejects this instruction rejects God, not man. This is the very God who gives to you his Holy Spirit.

SabbathBlessings · Mar 15, 2025

QuestionQuest74 said:
Does it mean to live in sin or unbelief ?

Lets let the bible define

1 John 3:4 Whoever commits sin also commits lawlessness, and sin is lawlessness.
James 2:10 For whoever shall keep the whole law, and yet stumble in one point, he is guilty of all. 11 For He who said, “Do not commit adultery,” also said, “Do not murder.” Now if you do not commit adultery, but you do murder, you have become a transgressor of the law.
Romans 7:7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? Certainly not! On the contrary, I would not have known sin except through the law. For I would not have known covetousness unless the law had said, “You shall not covet.”

Unbelief and disobedience are interchangeable in scripture

Living in sin is breaking God’s law which includes breaking the Ten Commandments that God personally wrote and spoke, His personal will and Testimony. Psa 40:8 Exo 31:18 and anything not of faith is sin. Rom 14:23

Dan Perez · Mar 17, 2025

QuestionQuest74 said:
Does it mean to live in sin or unbelief ?

And I have already POSTED this in Gal 1:8 believe it !!

And the other verse is in 1 Cor 3:10 -15 !!

It means as a believer you did not become and IMITATOR of ME ( PAUL ) just as I also am of Christ !!

dan p

Marty T H · Mar 24, 2025

What does it mean to fall away
Does it mean to live in sin or unbelief ?

In the beginning God said "If you eat, you will die", The devil countered, "don't believe God, believe me, you shall not die". Mankind chose wrong and fell away.

It seems the way this plays out is who you believe(have faith in), is who you belong to. The devil is ready and willing to tell you to believe him and ignore God.
The Bible plainly states that there will be a falling away! IT WILL HAPPEN!
The devil has changed Gods word in the garden of Eden. What makes you think he has stopped changing Gods Word? Note: I did not say "the Bible", I said "Gods Word".

We now have hundreds of versions of the Bible and they don't all say the same thing.
The newer versions of the Bible have even removed Gods name from scripture.

A while ago I did a study on Bible versions. I will include some of it here.
5: Gods name removed
The KJV Bible includes the name of God (JEHOVAH) 7 times (Gen 22:14, Ex. 6:3, Ex 17:15, Judg. 6:24, Ps. 83:18, Is. 12:2, Is. 26:4). Both the ESV, NIV have completely removed his name, and I suspect the other newer versions(too many to check) have also. The JW ~~Bible~~ on the other hand has inserted Gods name into their ~~Bible~~ OVER 7000 times. There are liberties being taken. This example proves that the changes in the newer versions can not be from God. This error on the part of the censors is obvious. I really believe that the censor(s) had a personal problem with God. Here God is speaking to Moses.
KJV
Ex. 6:3 And I appeared unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob, by the name of God Almighty, but by my name JEHOVAH was I not known to them.

ESV
Ex. 6:3 I appeared to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob as God Almighty, but by my name, the Lord, I did not make myself known to them.
NIV
Ex. 6:3 I appeared to Abraham, to Isaac and to Jacob as God Almighty, but by my name the Lord I did not make myself fully known to them.

The next verse is God speaking to Abraham 400 plus years before Moses. I only need to show the ESV and NIV verses, the KJV says pretty much the same. I point out here that this is where God declares to Abraham that he is the LORD.

ESV
Gen. 15:5-7 And he brought him outside and said, “Look toward heaven, and number the stars, if you are able to number them.” Then he said to him, “So shall your offspring be.” 6 And he believed the Lord, and he counted it to him as righteousness. 7 And he said to him, “I am the Lord who brought you out from Ur of the Chaldeans to give you this land to possess.”
NIV
Gen. 15:5-7 He took him outside and said, “Look up at the sky and count the stars—if indeed you can count them.” Then he said to him, “So shall your offspring be.” 6 Abram believed the Lord, and he credited it to him as righteousness. 7 He also said to him, “I am the Lord, who brought you out of Ur of the Chaldeans to give you this land to take possession of it.”

Here God in speaking to Abraham and establishes that he is the LORD. For God to tell Moses several hundred years later in Ex. 6:3 that he did not make him self know to Abraham as the LORD, is a monumental blunder on the part of those changing Gods Word! Gods name is JEHOVAH, as the authorized version of the King James Bible as well as other early Bibles tell us.

The point is, that the most powerful way for the devil to cause the falling away is thru changing Gods Word. This is only one out of hundreds of altered verses in the newer versions.

I was raised a JW, I have been lied too, and I know how easy it is to be duped. I have therefore taken hold of the Bible with white knuckles. For 50+ years I've studied the Bible, with purpose. You really need to look into this. The devil is out there and he would love to trip us up.

David Lamb · Mar 24, 2025

Marty T H said:
Here God in speaking to Abraham and establishes that he is the LORD. For God to tell Moses several hundred years later in Ex. 6:3 that he did not make him self know to Abraham as the LORD, is a monumental blunder on the part of those changing Gods Word! Gods name is JEHOVAH, as the authorized version of the King James Bible as well as other early Bibles tell us.

What do you mean by " the authorized version of the King James Bible?" Here in the UK, until recently the translation was known as "The Authorised Version" (AV for short), because its title page said, "Authorised to be read in churches." In the USA, and increasingly here, it is known as "The King James Version" (KJV for short). So I am puzzled by what "the authorized version of the King James Bible" could be.

Marty T H · Mar 25, 2025

I am at a loss. I don't understand your confusion. Please understand that the post I made was not centered about the naming of the KJV. It was about the corruption of Gods Word and its effect on the falling away that is to come.

What does it mean to fall away as a Christian?

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