War of Idealogies

Jo555 · Mar 2, 2025

It appears to me that at its basic level the Russia and Ukraine war is a war on ideologies.

This can be seen in religious circles too.

So when has one ideological group overstepped their boundaries?

Here are three to consider:

1. When we have abandoned the love of God, or put it under our ideology. That is not always easily detected on surface.

2. When one is looking to enforce their ideology and way of life on another, and sometimes that can be more underhanded instead of obvious. This also is not easily detected on surface.

3. When one quenches the voice of the other.

Of course I still believe in simplicity and basics. It boils down to the heart of the matter and being led by the Lord's Spirit. There may be a trouble maker among us who's intentions are for evil with no real intention for resolution, but enforcing his/her evil-intended view. In that case I see a wise course of action would be to remove them from among us, but I don't see this as carved in stone as the Lord's Spirit may have us make allowances in certain circumstances where He intends to move on hearts.

On a more radical scenario?

Was it not right to stop Hitler and his ideology?

I heard Trump once say, "We are not to force our way of life on the world, but to pose as an example; to shine bright as a city on a hill."

That finds truth in scripture. Not saying we should not help defend our allies against serious injustices, just saying.

And as viewing in scripture, way of old and new need to be distinguished.

Jo555 · Mar 2, 2025

I may have put this in the wrong area. My decision to put it here was to parallel what is happening on a macro level in the world, and a micro level within religious circles.

Do move if in the wrong section.

chevyontheriver · Mar 2, 2025

Jo555 said:
It appears to me that at its basic level the Russia and Ukraine war is a war on ideologies.

This can be seen in religious circles too.

So when has one ideological group overstepped their boundaries?

Here are three to consider:

1. When we have abandoned the love of God, or put it under our ideology. That is not always easily detected on surface.

2. When one is looking to enforce their ideology and way of life on another, and sometimes that can be more underhanded instead of obvious. This also is not easily detected on surface.

3. When one quenches the voice of the other.

Of course I still believe in simplicity and basics. It boils down to the heart of the matter and being led by the Lord's Spirit. There may be a trouble maker among us who's intentions are for evil with no real intention for resolution, but enforcing his/her evil-intended view. In that case I see a wise course of action would be to remove them from among us, but I don't see this as carved in stone as the Lord's Spirit may have us make allowances in certain circumstances where He intends to move on hearts.

On a more radical scenario?

Was it not right to stop Hitler and his ideology?

I heard Trump once say, "We are not to force our way of life on the world, but to pose as an example; to shine bright as a city on a hill."

That finds truth in scripture. Not saying we should not help defend our allies against serious injustices, just saying.

And as viewing in scripture, way of old and new need to be distinguished.

I think the war is a war between the patriarch of Moscow and the patriarch of Constantinople. Constantinople considers itself the 'New Rome' and Moscow considers itself the 'New New Rome'. Moscow wants to gain control of Orthodoxy. Constantinople wants to maintain control of Orthodoxy. They are in a spitting feud with each other over Ukraine.

But it's way more complicated, with the Moscow patriarchate complaining of the moral degeneracy of the West and how the Constantinople patriarch is compromising.

And here is another twist. Before Stalin the Ukraine was predominantly UGCC Byzantine Rite Catholic. Stalin shut that all down, killing millions of Ukrainians and giving the emptied Catholic churches to the Orthodox. The KGB controlled the Soviet Orthodox well while the UGCC was too much of a threat and couldn't be controlled so it had to be shut down. So now the UGCC is recovering somewhat but the rest of the Orthodox are split between Russian allied Orthodoxy and Constantinopolitan Orthodoxy. Zelenskyy has stomped on the Russian allied Orthodox. It's a mess. It's power politics seeking control of religious congregations. Who gets to be the 'New Rome'? Who gets to speak for the Holy Spirit? How much of that is Putin and how much of that is the patriarch and how much is just old school KGB?

My opinion is that Joe Stalin made a mess and that mess is not yet resolved. It is the underlying mess behind the war in Ukraine and has little to do with Crimea or even NATO. Various Orthodox people will have different opinions based on their allegiance with the Moscow patriarchate or the Constantinople patriarchate or some other patriarchate.

Jo555 · Mar 2, 2025

I have to admit, I'm ignorant regarding the influence there.

I felt it was more about preventing them from joining NATO.

I don't think this is just about Putin flexing his muscles, but a deep seeded distrust of the West, one that may be more warranted than many give him credit for.

It doesn't give him a right to impose his will on others, but I have to wonder how many have tried to impose their will on Russia.

I always say there are two sides to a story and how much have we given ear to his side?

At its basic level though, it appears to be a war of ideologies.

chevyontheriver · Mar 2, 2025

Jo555 said:
I have to admit, I'm ignorant regarding the influence there.

I felt it was more about preventing them from joining NATO.

I don't think this is just about Putin flexing his muscles, but a deep seeded distrust of the West, one that may be more warranted than many give him credit for.

It doesn't give him a right to impose his will on others, but I have to wonder how many have tried to impose their will on Russia.

I always say there are two sides to a story and how much have we given ear to his side?

At its basic level though, it appears to be a war of ideologies.

There are SO MANY aspects to the story. There really is the sense the Russians have about standing against the decadence of the West. Well, the West IS decadent. There is some considerable decadence in Russia too though.

Then there is the very real pushing NATO membership for Ukraine. The USA and Russia agreed that this would never ever happen years ago, and now we are seeking to go ahead anyhow. Russians should be indignant over that and they are.

Jo555 · Mar 2, 2025

chevyontheriver said:
There are SO MANY aspects to the story. There really is the sense the Russians have about standing against the decadence of the West. Well, the West IS decadent. There is some considerable decadence in Russia too though.

Then there is the very real pushing NATO membership for Ukraine. The USA and Russia agreed that this would never ever happen years ago, and now we are seeking to go ahead anyhow. Russians should be indignant over that and they are.

I guess I'm just trying to understand all that is going on in light of a vision I had years ago, if you believe in that.

I watched a dark cloud that was moving from west to east, and it stopped at Russia. I didn't see a clear border, but as I watched this dark cloud or mist move over continents, i could see it was around where Russia was that it stopped. It may have even entered Russia at the border, but then stopped there.

I also did not see the Americas. The vision began as it was heading East and entered Africa, then covered Europe, but stopped moving around Russia.

So, as I said, I didn't see the Americas, but knew it came from the West.

So if my vision was from God, which I do believe it was, then there is darkness that has moved from the West into these areas.

I don't know enough about what was going on to say what that darkness was, but I suspect it was about imposing our way of life and our ideologies on the world, but I still don't know if it was about that and I may never know. All I know is that I have a heart for Russia so I prayed for them.

And it was years before this current conflict so it may not have anything to do with what is going on now, but I wouldn't doubt distrust exists on Putin's part.

Jo555 · Mar 2, 2025

Jo555 said:
I guess I'm just trying to understand all that is going on in light of a vision I had years ago, if you believe in that.

I watched a dark cloud that was moving from west to east, and it stopped at Russia. I didn't see a clear border, but as I watched this dark cloud or mist move over continents, i could see it was around where Russia was that it stopped. It may have even entered Russia at the border, but then stopped there.

I also did not see the Americas. The vision began as it was heading East and entered Africa, then covered Europe, but stopped moving around Russia.

So, as I said, I didn't see the Americas, but knew it came from the West.

So if my vision was from God, which I do believe it was, then there is darkness that has moved from the West into these areas.

I don't know enough about what was going on to say what that darkness was, but I suspect it was about imposing our way of life and our ideologies on the world, but I still don't know if it was about that and I may never know. All I know is that I have a heart for Russia so I prayed for them.

And it was years before this current conflict so it may not have anything to do with what is going on now, but I wouldn't doubt distrust exists on Putin's part.

I'm trying to remember if it covered all of Africa or just like the upper half. I don't recall, but definitely north africa, and it appeared all of Europe.

chevyontheriver · Mar 3, 2025

Jo555 said:
All I know is that I have a heart for Russia ….

Ah, yes indeed. That was also the message of Fatima.

Laodicean60 · Mar 3, 2025

Jo555 said:
"We are not to force our way of life on the world, but to pose as an example; to shine bright as a city on a hill."

My mother at twenty, had her country nuked, and yet, 10 years later, she met my dad in Japan, and her thoughts were what you posted. At one time, we were that "city," but now we are a bully dictating to other cultures on how to live and what kind of government they should have.

Jo555 · Mar 3, 2025

chevyontheriver said:
There are SO MANY aspects to the story. There really is the sense the Russians have about standing against the decadence of the West. Well, the West IS decadent. There is some considerable decadence in Russia too though.

Then there is the very real pushing NATO membership for Ukraine. The USA and Russia agreed that this would never ever happen years ago, and now we are seeking to go ahead anyhow. Russians should be indignant over that and they are.

Yep.

Jo555 · Mar 3, 2025

Laodicean60 said:
My mother at twenty, had her country nuked, and yet, 10 years later, she met my dad in Japan, and her thoughts were what you posted. At one time, we were that "city," but now we are a bully dictating to other cultures on how to live and what kind of government they should have.

Appears like it.

Jo555 · Mar 4, 2025

Been reading things similar to what is on here. This appears to give insights into the other side of the equation.

Who Started The War In Ukraine, Dare To Read?

Barrack Obama, Joe Biden, and their secretary of state Victoria Nuland & Ukraine Ambassador Geoffrey Pyatt started the conflict in Ukraine, they planned the overthrow of its government in the Maidan Coup Feb 2014 and installed their puppet government, Obama and his Admin were the aggressors...

www.christianforums.com

Jo555 · Mar 4, 2025

Jo555 said:
Been reading things similar to what is on here. This appears to give insights into the other side of the equation.

Who Started The War In Ukraine, Dare To Read?

Barrack Obama, Joe Biden, and their secretary of state Victoria Nuland & Ukraine Ambassador Geoffrey Pyatt started the conflict in Ukraine, they planned the overthrow of its government in the Maidan Coup Feb 2014 and installed their puppet government, Obama and his Admin were the aggressors...

www.christianforums.com

Either way, we can't impose our ideologies on one group or another, or prevent it by force if that is what the majority wants.

Be that city on a hill shining bright and His Light will draw them.

Jo555 · Mar 4, 2025

Jo555 said:
Either way, we can't impose our ideologies on one group or another, or prevent it by force if that is what the majority wants.

Be that city on a hill shining bright and His Light will draw them.

Isaiah 60:
“Arise, Jerusalem! Let your light shine for all to see.
For the glory of the Lord rises to shine on you.
2 Darkness as black as night covers all the nations of the earth,
but the glory of the Lord rises and appears over you.
3 All nations will come to your light;
mighty kings will come to see your radiance.

War of Idealogies

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