Trump, Vance and Zelenskyy spar over Russian war in tense exchange at White House

Ignatius the Kiwi · Mar 1, 2025

rebornfree said:
It's a pity that that couldn't have been worked out by political discussions and a referendum.

Part of the problem was the Maidan revolution which ousted Viktor Yanukovych and tilted Ukraine towards a completely western NATO based path. Russia had made clear that Ukraine joining NATO was not something they were going to allow and Ukraine or the West wasn't going to ever let Crimea or the Donbass separate and join Russia. There are also many questions about the US's involvement in the Maidan Revolution but this problem of Ukraine is far more complicated than any give it credit for and the USA under the previous Democrat and Republican Establishments aided in making this confrontation inevitable.

rebornfree said:
I don't know anything about the Orthodox Church so I can't really comment, but obviously any suppression of Christianity is abhorrent.

It isn't politically convenient to discuss how Russian Orthodoxy is being suppressed by the Ukrainian regime.

chevyontheriver · Mar 1, 2025

juanwood said:
are you deluded? trump was the one demanding that zelensky bow down and worship him!

I didn’t hear those words.

ozso · Mar 1, 2025

Akita Suggagaki said:
And they were looking to discredit him so they would not look weak accommodating Russia. Now they can say he does not want peace (wont surrender). They want to concede to Russia so they can say that negotiated for peace. But at what cost?

What's going on is discrediting our own President in favor of putting a foreign leader on a pedestal.

Akita Suggagaki · Mar 1, 2025

ozso said:
What's going on is discrediting our own President in favor of putting a foreign leader on a pedestal.

He discredits himself continually by his own words and behavior.

Read this all wat way through,

https://apnews.com/article/trump-zelenskyy-vance-transcript-oval-office-80685f5727628c64065da81525f8f0cf

Vanellus · Mar 1, 2025

I do find the cacophony of journalist voices when the next question is asked for strange rather than being called in turn by name. Maybe it's because there were far more journalists than time for questions but I doubt even people in the room can parse what they are saying when they all speak at once. It makes for a tenser than needed atmosphere. And what's all this "raw earth" rather than "rare earth"?

ozso · Mar 1, 2025

Akita Suggagaki said:
He discredits himself continually by his own words and behavior.

Reda this all wat way through,

https://apnews.com/article/trump-zelenskyy-vance-transcript-oval-office-80685f5727628c64065da81525f8f0cf

It coincides with what I heard. It started out with Zelenskyy complaining about what a lousy job the United States has been doing, going back to President Obama. Basically accusing the United States of mishandling the whole affair and criticizing the US as being ineffective.

That's where it started going sour.

But to those who are diametrically opposed to their own President, they'll always take someone else's side. I wouldn't be surprised to see them take Putin's side in a similar situation. When Trump and Kim Jong Un were going at it, they basically took Jung Un's side by going against their own President. Whining about how Trump was going to start WW3 by showing some backbone. And then when Trump smoothed out the situation and got on amicable terms with Jong Un they whined about him being friends with a dictator.

These are the same people who took the side of terrorists over the democracy they attacked.

Michie · Mar 1, 2025

ozso said:
It coincides with what I heard. It started out with Zelenskyy complaining about what a lousy job the United States has been doing, going back to President Obama. Basically accusing the United States of mishandling the whole affair and criticizing the US as being ineffective.

That's where it started going sour.

But to those who are diametrically opposed to their own President, they'll always take someone else's side. I wouldn't be surprised to see them take Putin's side in a similar situation. When Trump and Kim Jong Un were going at it, they basically took Jung Un's side by going against their own President. Whining about how Trump was going to start WW3 by showing some backbone. And then when Trump smoothed out the situation and got on amicable terms with Jong Un they whined about him being friends with a dictator.

These are the same people who took the side of terrorists over the democracy they attacked.

There are also full transcripts, word for word to be read. If Trump’s in it, nothing is going to be satisfactory. People seem to feed off it.

ozso · Mar 1, 2025

Michie said:
There are also full transcripts, word for word to be read. If Trump’s in it, nothing is going to be satisfactory. People seem to feed off it.

There's absolutely no pleasing them. That was established a long time ago. Saying they'd vilify Trump if he cured cancer, really isn't much of a stretch. Trump probably will bring stability to the Ukraine vs Russia situation and they will vilify him for it, guaranteed.

Michie · Mar 1, 2025

ozso said:
There's absolutely no pleasing them. That was established a long time ago. Saying they'd rally against Trump if he cured cancer, really isn't much of an exaggeration. Trump probably will bring stability to the Ukraine vs Russia situation and they will vilify him for it.

I’m just completely disgusted. This pathological hatred has been going on for years with no signs of abating. It’s not normal. Most American wish whoever is in office success for the well-being of everyone. Disagreement is one thing but this is completely different. What will people do when he’s gone? Probably the same. Again, not normal.

Vanellus · Mar 2, 2025

There's been a lot of blame the victim attacks on Zelensky here yet it seems that he is being attacked for simply pointing out that parts of Ukraine has been occupied by Russia since 2014 and that period includes Trump's first term; and also pointing out that Putin cannot be trusted to keep to a ceasefire agreement based on his record.

ozso · Mar 2, 2025

Vanellus said:
There's been a lot of blame the victim attacks on Zelensky here yet it seems that he is being attacked for simply pointing out that parts of Ukraine has been occupied by Russia since 2014 and that period includes Trump's first term; and also pointing out that Putin cannot be trusted to keep to a ceasefire agreement based on his record.

Zelenskyy complained about the US being ineffective in helping him.

FenderTL5 · Mar 2, 2025

ozso said:
Zelenskyy complained about the US being ineffective in helping him.

Given the scenario we are are currently in, with Trump insisting Ukraine surrender to Russia in exchange for trillion$ in mineral rights to the U$..
the complaint would be true from a Ukrainian perspective - would it not?

It has the appearance of Russia invading and conquering and the US swooping in to help divide the spoils.

ozso · Mar 2, 2025

FenderTL5 said:
Given the scenario we are are currently in, with Trump insisting Ukraine surrender to Russia in exchange for trillion$ in mineral rights to the U$..
the complaint would be true from a Ukrainian perspective - would it not?

It has the appearance of Russia invading and conquering and the US swooping in to help divide the spoils.

No he accused the US of giving worthless help to Ukraine since the Obama administration.

Also there's no way in a million years that Zelenskyy is going to prevail against Putin. It is not going to happen.

And Trump going totally against Putin is only going to precipitate WW3.

So all that's left is a compromise that apparently only the current US administration can forge. Which Zelenskyy pooped on.

Akita Suggagaki · Mar 2, 2025

ozso said:
Zelenskyy complained about the US being ineffective in helping him.

Where? Please provide quote.

ozso · Mar 2, 2025

Akita Suggagaki said:
Where? Please provide quote.

It started with:

Zelenskyy: “OK. So he (Putin) occupied it, our parts, big parts of Ukraine, parts of east and Crimea. So he occupied it in 2014. So during a lot of years — I’m not speaking about just Biden, but those times was (Barack) Obama, then President Obama, then President Trump, then President Biden, now President Trump. And God bless, now, President Trump will stop him. But during 2014, nobody stopped him. He just occupied and took. He killed people. You know what the –”

Full transcript: What was said in heated Trump, Zelenskyy and Vance argument in the Oval Office

The argument led to the rest of Zelenskyy's visit being canceled and called into question how much the U.S. will still support Ukraine.

nationalpost.com

lifepsyop · Mar 2, 2025

FenderTL5 said:
Given the scenario we are are currently in, with Trump insisting Ukraine surrender to Russia in exchange for trillion$ in mineral rights to the U$..
the complaint would be true from a Ukrainian perspective - would it not?

True from an EU/Atlanticist elite perspective.

The Ukrainian people probably wouldn't be complaining. Surrender would be a mercy to them. There's quite a large compilation of video now of young men being kidnapped and thrown into vans to go die. Right now they are essentially a slave army in a proxy war between western elites and Russia.

FenderTL5 said:
It has the appearance of Russia invading and conquering and the US swooping in to help divide the spoils.

But that is only the appearance from low information propaganda.

Reality shows that Russia didn't just swoop in to conquer. They had entirely legitimate existential concerns.

FenderTL5 · Mar 2, 2025

ozso said:
It started with:

Zelenskyy: “OK. So he (Putin) occupied it, our parts, big parts of Ukraine, parts of east and Crimea. So he occupied it in 2014. So during a lot of years — I’m not speaking about just Biden, but those times was (Barack) Obama, then President Obama, then President Trump, then President Biden, now President Trump. And God bless, now, President Trump will stop him. But during 2014, nobody stopped him. He just occupied and took. He killed people. You know what the –”

Full transcript: What was said in heated Trump, Zelenskyy and Vance argument in the Oval Office

The argument led to the rest of Zelenskyy's visit being canceled and called into question how much the U.S. will still support Ukraine.

nationalpost.com

What part of that is untrue?

FenderTL5 · Mar 2, 2025

lifepsyop said:
Reality shows that Russia didn't just swoop in to conquer. They had entirely legitimate existential concerns.

Do tell.

lifepsyop · Mar 2, 2025

Vanellus said:
There's been a lot of blame the victim attacks on Zelensky here yet it seems that he is being attacked for simply pointing out that parts of Ukraine has been occupied by Russia since 2014 and that period includes Trump's first term; and also pointing out that Putin cannot be trusted to keep to a ceasefire agreement based on his record.

Ukraine is being occupied right now by the foreign-backed Zelensky regime.

He is probably going to be put up against the wall by his own people when this is all over.

JimR-OCDS · Mar 2, 2025

sanderabeer said:
That's not what Zelensky said, though.

Then you didn't watch the video of Zelensky with Trump and Vance, or you're in denial.

Trump, Vance and Zelenskyy spar over Russian war in tense exchange at White House

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