Trump, Vance and Zelenskyy spar over Russian war in tense exchange at White House

[rebornfree]

I'm a realist first and foremost, and don't believe in fighting Total death wars for the sake of Liberal Democracy, which I'm no big fan of. I see many here arguing for the war to continue but no one is saying that the cost is worth it, because they either don't want to think about the cost or ideologically popossessed.

Is that the reason though? I would have thought that the Ukranian Government had a duty of care to the people of the regions the Russians have occupied. What is to become of them? Will they have to become Russians? I think everyone in the West wants the war to end but you can't just abandon people.

Ukraine ambassador's reaction to fiery Trump-Zelenskyy Oval Office clash goes viral

A video of Ukrainian Ambassador Oksana Markarova's reaction to Friday's heated exchange between President Donald Trump and Ukrainian President Zelenskyy at the White House went viral.

www.foxnews.com

I noticed that and felt sorry for the lady.

Now, just how to end it is another question. Terms for peace will require delicate skilled diplomacy. The U.S. obviously does not have it.

Oh I'm sure you do. You've had it before. It's just not in the Oval Office right now.

It was an off hand comment about how we would feel if Russia is on our shores.
A comments they should have ignored. Instead they escalated.

Yes. Actually I thought it was a valid comment. If any of us lived near a river, which was at risk of flooding, and we said to our friends, who live further away, that they would feel anxious if they were nearer to it, is that unreasonable? I think that's all Zelensky was saying.

 

[Ignatius the Kiwi]

are you deluded? trump was the one demanding that zelensky bow down and worship him!

Trump wants Zelensky to be deferential. He wants him to kiss the ring and go along with a peace plan and not back Zelensky's desire to die to the last Ukrainian. I don't think this unreasonable.

 

[Ignatius the Kiwi]

Is that the reason though? I would have thought that the Ukranian Government had a duty of care to the people of the regions the Russians have occupied. What is to become of them? Will they have to become Russians? I think everyone in the West wants the war to end but you can't just abandon people.

Ukraine wasn't taking care of those native Russians to begin with and was implementing policies which undermined Russians in the attempt to Ukrainize the whole country. Crimea is majority Russian and the peoples of the Donbass wanted by in large to be incorporated into Russia. Not to mention how Ukraine as a country is targeting the Orthodox Church in Ukraine under the Moscow Patriarchate.

 

[Ignatius the Kiwi]

ok so you are just a qanon conspiracy theorist lost cause. Another embarrassment to real Christians

I have never advocated for QANON. I have advocated that it's better for peace to be reached rather than to continue fighting a war Ukraine cannot win.

 

[Akita Suggagaki]

Trump wants to broker peace so he can brag about it and expect the Nobel Prize.

He sees that the only way to broker peace is for Ukraine to do some giving up because Russia certainly wont. What concessions do you think Putin is willing to make?

So he must pressure Zelensky who is most vulnerable to back down.
And if he will not back down make him look disrespectful, ungrateful and unreasonable.

That meeting was entirely staged like a scene from The Apprentice.

 

[rebornfree]

Ukraine wasn't taking care of those native Russians to begin with and was implementing policies which undermined Russians in the attempt to Ukrainize the whole country. Crimea is majority Russian and the peoples of the Donbass wanted by in large to be incorporated into Russia. Not to mention how Ukraine as a country is targeting the Orthodox Church in Ukraine under the Moscow Patriarchate.

It's a pity that that couldn't have been worked out by political discussions and a referendum.

I don't know anything about the Orthodox Church so I can't really comment, but obviously any suppression of Christianity is abhorrent.

 

[Ignatius the Kiwi]

It's a pity that that couldn't have been worked out by political discussions and a referendum.

Part of the problem was the Maidan revolution which ousted Viktor Yanukovych and tilted Ukraine towards a completely western NATO based path. Russia had made clear that Ukraine joining NATO was not something they were going to allow and Ukraine or the West wasn't going to ever let Crimea or the Donbass separate and join Russia. There are also many questions about the US's involvement in the Maidan Revolution but this problem of Ukraine is far more complicated than any give it credit for and the USA under the previous Democrat and Republican Establishments aided in making this confrontation inevitable.

I don't know anything about the Orthodox Church so I can't really comment, but obviously any suppression of Christianity is abhorrent.

It isn't politically convenient to discuss how Russian Orthodoxy is being suppressed by the Ukrainian regime.

 

[chevyontheriver]

are you deluded? trump was the one demanding that zelensky bow down and worship him!

I didn’t hear those words.

 

[ozso]

And they were looking to discredit him so they would not look weak accommodating Russia. Now they can say he does not want peace (wont surrender). They want to concede to Russia so they can say that negotiated for peace. But at what cost?

What's going on is discrediting our own President in favor of putting a foreign leader on a pedestal.

 

[Akita Suggagaki]

What's going on is discrediting our own President in favor of putting a foreign leader on a pedestal.

He discredits himself continually by his own words and behavior.

Read this all wat way through,

https://apnews.com/article/trump-zelenskyy-vance-transcript-oval-office-80685f5727628c64065da81525f8f0cf

 

[Vanellus]

I do find the cacophony of journalist voices when the next question is asked for strange rather than being called in turn by name. Maybe it's because there were far more journalists than time for questions but I doubt even people in the room can parse what they are saying when they all speak at once. It makes for a tenser than needed atmosphere. And what's all this "raw earth" rather than "rare earth"?

 

[ozso]

He discredits himself continually by his own words and behavior.

Reda this all wat way through,

https://apnews.com/article/trump-zelenskyy-vance-transcript-oval-office-80685f5727628c64065da81525f8f0cf

It coincides with what I heard. It started out with Zelenskyy complaining about what a lousy job the United States has been doing, going back to President Obama. Basically accusing the United States of mishandling the whole affair and criticizing the US as being ineffective.

That's where it started going sour.

But to those who are diametrically opposed to their own President, they'll always take someone else's side. I wouldn't be surprised to see them take Putin's side in a similar situation. When Trump and Kim Jong Un were going at it, they basically took Jung Un's side by going against their own President. Whining about how Trump was going to start WW3 by showing some backbone. And then when Trump smoothed out the situation and got on amicable terms with Jong Un they whined about him being friends with a dictator.

These are the same people who took the side of terrorists over the democracy they attacked.

 

[Michie]

It coincides with what I heard. It started out with Zelenskyy complaining about what a lousy job the United States has been doing, going back to President Obama. Basically accusing the United States of mishandling the whole affair and criticizing the US as being ineffective.

That's where it started going sour.

But to those who are diametrically opposed to their own President, they'll always take someone else's side. I wouldn't be surprised to see them take Putin's side in a similar situation. When Trump and Kim Jong Un were going at it, they basically took Jung Un's side by going against their own President. Whining about how Trump was going to start WW3 by showing some backbone. And then when Trump smoothed out the situation and got on amicable terms with Jong Un they whined about him being friends with a dictator.

These are the same people who took the side of terrorists over the democracy they attacked.

There are also full transcripts, word for word to be read. If Trump’s in it, nothing is going to be satisfactory. People seem to feed off it.

 

[ozso]

There are also full transcripts, word for word to be read. If Trump’s in it, nothing is going to be satisfactory. People seem to feed off it.

There's absolutely no pleasing them. That was established a long time ago. Saying they'd vilify Trump if he cured cancer, really isn't much of a stretch. Trump probably will bring stability to the Ukraine vs Russia situation and they will vilify him for it, guaranteed.

 

[Michie]

There's absolutely no pleasing them. That was established a long time ago. Saying they'd rally against Trump if he cured cancer, really isn't much of an exaggeration. Trump probably will bring stability to the Ukraine vs Russia situation and they will vilify him for it.

I’m just completely disgusted. This pathological hatred has been going on for years with no signs of abating. It’s not normal. Most American wish whoever is in office success for the well-being of everyone. Disagreement is one thing but this is completely different. What will people do when he’s gone? Probably the same. Again, not normal.

 

[Vanellus]

There's been a lot of blame the victim attacks on Zelensky here yet it seems that he is being attacked for simply pointing out that parts of Ukraine has been occupied by Russia since 2014 and that period includes Trump's first term; and also pointing out that Putin cannot be trusted to keep to a ceasefire agreement based on his record.

 

[ozso]

There's been a lot of blame the victim attacks on Zelensky here yet it seems that he is being attacked for simply pointing out that parts of Ukraine has been occupied by Russia since 2014 and that period includes Trump's first term; and also pointing out that Putin cannot be trusted to keep to a ceasefire agreement based on his record.

Zelenskyy complained about the US being ineffective in helping him.

 

[FenderTL5]

Zelenskyy complained about the US being ineffective in helping him.

Given the scenario we are are currently in, with Trump insisting Ukraine surrender to Russia in exchange for trillion$ in mineral rights to the U$..
the complaint would be true from a Ukrainian perspective - would it not?

It has the appearance of Russia invading and conquering and the US swooping in to help divide the spoils.

 

[ozso]

Given the scenario we are are currently in, with Trump insisting Ukraine surrender to Russia in exchange for trillion$ in mineral rights to the U$..
the complaint would be true from a Ukrainian perspective - would it not?

It has the appearance of Russia invading and conquering and the US swooping in to help divide the spoils.

No he accused the US of giving worthless help to Ukraine since the Obama administration.

Also there's no way in a million years that Zelenskyy is going to prevail against Putin. It is not going to happen.

And Trump going totally against Putin is only going to precipitate WW3.

So all that's left is a compromise that apparently only the current US administration can forge. Which Zelenskyy pooped on.

 

[Akita Suggagaki]

Zelenskyy complained about the US being ineffective in helping him.

Where? Please provide quote.