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Prominent English Scholar Says His Country’s Decline Began With the Reformation

Michie

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John Rist says the secularization and moral fragmentation in England stems from the cataclysmic 16th-century event and the ensuing rise of nontheistic rights theories.


Professor John Rist is regarded as one of the Church’s finest living scholars of ancient philosophy, classics and early Christian philosophy and theology.

An English convert to the faith, he is an expert on St. Augustine of Hippo, Plato and Aristotle and a prolific author who has held the Dominican Father Kurt Pritzl Chair in Philosophy at The Catholic University of America and is a life member of Clare Hall at the University of Cambridge, England.

In these comments, some of which formed part of the recent Register article on England’s moral and spiritual decline, Rist explains how secularization and moral fragmentation stems from the Reformation and the rise of nontheistic rights theories. He also discusses how the collapse of traditional Christianity, especially Catholicism, has left a void, leading to a de facto nihilism where the power to enforce desires trumps objective morals.

Rist believes this shift, exacerbated by the decline in influential Christian intellectuals and the failures of replacement ideologies, leaves little hope for a turnaround in the foreseeable future.

Continued below.
 

jamiec

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That doesn’t surprise me, to be honest.
What is really amusing, is the unbridgeable gap between the state of Catholicism in Europe generally as well as in England, and, OTOH, The optimistic fantasies entertained by John the 23rd and the bishops at Vatican 2.

There is not the slightest prospect anywhere of any turnaround in the dire condition of the Catholic Church in England. And its dire state is very largely the works of the popes and bishops. It now has exactly one seminary, because that is all that is needed, because there are hardly any candidates for the priesthood in England. In Scotland, there are no seminaries at all. I believe that the inhabitants of the Vatican refer to this as renewal. The Church is demoralised, divided, doctrinally confused, scandal-ridden, completely innocent of any desire to spread the Catholic Faith, and, in short, utterly Godforsaken. It has comprehensively destroyed its credibility.

There is absolutely no prospect of any turnaround in its fortunes for a very very very long time, if ever. Maybe it will revive after 1000 years of an Islamic caliphate in Great Britain, long after the papacy has become a half-forgotten nightmare from the Dark Ages of the 20th & 21st centuries. Maybe.

As the chieftain Calgacus in Tacitus almost said: “They make a desolation, and they call it renewal“. A better description of the evil work of the inhabitants of the Vatican can hardly be found.
 
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Bob Crowley

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There is not the slightest prospect anywhere of any turnaround in the dire condition of the Catholic Church in England. And its dire state is very largely the works of the popes and bishops. It now has exactly one seminary, because that is all that is needed, because there are hardly any candidates for the priesthood in England. In Scotland, there are no seminaries at all. I believe that the inhabitants of the Vatican refer to this as renewal. The Church is demoralised, divided, doctrinally confused, scandal-ridden, completely innocent of any desire to spread the Catholic Faith, and, in short, utterly Godforsaken. It has comprehensively destroyed its credibility.
Your argument is a case of the pot calling the kettle black.

I notice you are Scottish. In 2001, 42.5 percent of Scots identified as Presbyterian (which is the recognised "official" church). 15.9% identified as Catholic.

In 2022, 20.2% identified as Presbyterian, a 52.5% drop. 13.2% identified as Catholic, about a 17% drop.


The relative decline in the number of Presbyterian adherents was 3 times that of Catholic adherents.

Dietrich Bonhoeffer saw this coming - a "secular Christianity" in a "world come of age".
 
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