God Father has flesh and bones????

Daniel Marsh · Oct 23, 2024

I read an article by SDA James White that God the Father has a body of flesh and bones.

Adventism's Physical God

Ellen White strongly suggested that not only Jesus but also His Father had physical bodies. Here are two of her quotes establishing her belief that Jesus Himself told her God has a body: "I have

www.thebereancall.org

The Source of Adventism’s Physical God – Proclamation! Online Magazine | Former Adventist Fellowship

blog.lifeassuranceministries.org

*** Personality of God by James White

I know that Mormons believe this too.

What other groups in the 1800's also taught this?

Christian Conxection.

BobRyan · Oct 23, 2024

Daniel Marsh said:
I read an article by SDA James White that God the Father has a body of flesh and bones.

I don't know of a single "flesh and bones" statement from Ellen White regarding God the Father.

But she did say that The Father and the Son are of the same "substance" - like two humans being of the same substance.

I DO know of some statements that she made about not getting into speculation about the substance of the Father, or the Holy Spirit or the entire God concept.

John 1:18 "No one has SEEN God at any time" -- includes the idea that there is in fact "something to see" but that "it has not been seen".

That is very different from "There is nothing to see - that is why you have not seen Him".

Exodus has God showing Moses "his back"
Rev 1 describes His person but does not say "Flesh and bones" in the description.

The Liturgist · Nov 7, 2024

Daniel Marsh said:
I read an article by SDA James White that God the Father has a body of flesh and bones.

Adventism's Physical God

Ellen White strongly suggested that not only Jesus but also His Father had physical bodies. Here are two of her quotes establishing her belief that Jesus Himself told her God has a body: "I have

www.thebereancall.org

The Source of Adventism’s Physical God – Proclamation! Online Magazine | Former Adventist Fellowship

blog.lifeassuranceministries.org

*** Personality of God by James White

I know that Mormons believe this too.

What other groups in the 1800's also taught this?

Christian Conxection.

That’s a serious error, contrary to Scripture, which affirms that God the Father is a spirit, who has never been seen (only heard, twice, at the Baptism of Christ in the Jordan and at the Transfiguration), instead being revealed by God the Son. God the Holy Spirit, conversely, has been seen, but in all of Scripture never said anything Himself, but rather spoke through the Prophets in addition to communicating in a visible manner.

Only God the Son, the Incarnate Logos, our Lord, God and Savior Jesus Christ, has physical flesh and bones, for He put on our humanity and united it with His divinity (John 1:1-18) without change, confusion, separation or division.

The Mormons it should be noted are Tritheists, following in the footsteps of John Philoponus, the 6th century Egyptian philosopher, who had become the leader of the actual Eutychian Monophysites, a doctrine frequently falsely attributed to one of my favorite denominations, and the denomination with the best track record of avoiding heresies, the Oriental Orthodox (Coptic Orthodox, Armenian Apostolic, Syriac Orthodox, Ethiopian Tewahedo Orthodox, Eritrean Tewahedo Orthodox, Indian Orthodox, all of whom collectively number around 60 million and are one of the fastest-growing denominations, despite also experiencing the worst persecution from Islam of any denomination, and also having experienced Communist persecution in the 20th century in the case of the Armenians).

RileyG · Nov 18, 2024

No. God the Father and God the Holy Spirit are pure spirits. They have no flesh or bones. Only God the Son, in the man of Jesus Christ, had flesh and bones. He died, was resurrected, and dies no more.

Blessings

AveChristusRex · Nov 21, 2024

BobRyan said:
Exodus has God showing Moses "his back"

Most Patristic works and [subsequently] Church Fathers understood this to be a prefigurement of Christ; i.e., a Christophany. I don't know off the top of my head any Father who stated that it was truly the back of the Father.

RileyG said:
No. God the Father and God the Holy Spirit are pure spirits. They have no flesh or bones.

This is the best way to put it, as the incorporeality nature of God the Father and God the Holy Spirit is purely spiritual and not material. Unlike the Son, who assumed a human nature in the Incarnation, God the Father and God the Holy Spirit exist eternally as a pure spirit without a physical body, according to St. Thomas Aquinas:

"God is incorporeal, as is clear from the fact that bodies are in potentiality. But God is pure act, without any potentiality. Hence it is impossible that He should be a body" (Summa Theologiae, I, q. 3, a. 1).

Hope this helps :crossrc:

Palmfever · Nov 21, 2024

Daniel Marsh said:
I read an article by SDA James White that God the Father has a body of flesh and bones.

Adventism's Physical God

Ellen White strongly suggested that not only Jesus but also His Father had physical bodies. Here are two of her quotes establishing her belief that Jesus Himself told her God has a body: "I have

www.thebereancall.org

The Source of Adventism’s Physical God – Proclamation! Online Magazine | Former Adventist Fellowship

blog.lifeassuranceministries.org

*** Personality of God by James White

I know that Mormons believe this too.

What other groups in the 1800's also taught this?

Christian Conxection.

"I am saying, dear brothers and sisters, is that our physical bodies cannot inherit the Kingdom of God. These dying bodies cannot inherit what will last forever."

linux.poet · Nov 21, 2024

Hmm.

Ezekiel 1:26-28 NASB said:
26 Now above the expanse that was over their heads there was something resembling a throne, like lapis lazuli in appearance; and on that which resembled a throne, high up, was a figure with the appearance of a man. 27 Then I noticed from the appearance of His waist and upward something like gleaming metal that looked like fire all around within it, and from the appearance of His waist and downward I saw something like fire; and there was a radiance around Him. 28 Like the appearance of the rainbow in the clouds on a rainy day, so was the appearance of the surrounding radiance. Such was the appearance of the likeness of the glory of the Lord. And when I saw it, I fell on my face and heard a voice speaking.

Maybe not "flesh and bones", more like "metal and fire"?

Exodus 24: 9-11 NASB said:
9 Then Moses went up with Aaron, Nadab and Abihu, and seventy of the elders of Israel, 10 and they saw the God of Israel; and under His feet there appeared to be a pavement of sapphire, as clear as the sky itself. 11 Yet He did not reach out with His hand against the nobles of the sons of Israel; and they saw God, and they ate and drank.

Note that this is different from the glory of Christ as depicted in Revelation:

Revelation 1 said:
12 Then I turned to see the voice that was speaking with me. And after turning I saw seven golden lampstands; 13 and in the middle of the lampstands I saw one like a son of man, clothed in a robe reaching to the feet, and wrapped around the chest with a golden sash. 14 His head and His hair were white like white wool, like snow; and His eyes were like a flame of fire. 15 His feet were like burnished bronze when it has been heated to a glow in a furnace, and His voice was like the sound of many waters. 16 In His right hand He held seven stars, and out of His mouth came a sharp two-edged sword; and His face was like the sun shining in its strength.

17 When I saw Him, I fell at His feet like a dead man. And He placed His right hand on me, saying, “Do not be afraid; I am the first and the last, 18 and the living One; and I was dead, and behold, I am alive forevermore, and I have the keys of death and of Hades.

But then we have these verses to contend with:

Deuteronomy 4: 11-12 said:
11 you approached and stood at the foot of the mountain while the mountain was blazing up to the very heavens, shrouded in dark clouds. 12 Then the Lord spoke to you out of the fire. You heard the sound of words but saw no form; there was only a voice.

Deuteronomy 4: 15-18 said:
15 “Since you saw no form when the Lord spoke to you at Horeb out of the fire, watch yourselves closely, 16 so that you do not act corruptly by making an idol for yourselves in the form of any figure: the likeness of male or female, 17 the likeness of any animal that is on the earth, the likeness of any winged bird that flies in the air, 18 the likeness of anything that creeps on the ground, the likeness of any fish that is in the water under the earth.

I'm not a theologian, but my best reckoning here is that God the Father can assume an appearance, "riding around on his chariot" with the four living creatures as wheels on the lake of sapphire the same way that angels can. However, his natural form is spirit, the same way as the angels, with no form, and apparently the form he assumes looks like metal and fire in various configurations when he wants to assume one. He also can do the "pillar of cloud" and "pillar of fire" appearance to talk to humans when He wants to show up.

Flesh and bone, on the other hand, is Christ's choice to take on at the Incarnation. Meanwhile, it seems that the Holy Spirit is just that - a spirit - and cannot assume an appearance, unlike the Father who can and the Son who has.

Further boggling the brain cells is that our bodies are supposed to be made in the image of God the Father, which means that my body is imaging a spirit that doesn't have a body. Could not the infinite God have infinite forms he could take on? Somehow it's true but I don't know how. And why is my body imaging God while the angels do not since they are closer to God the Father's essence as a spirit than me in my body?

But as far as I can tell from the Scriptures, flesh and bone for God the Father is out.

storypeddler · Nov 23, 2024

Daniel Marsh said:
I read an article by SDA James White that God the Father has a body of flesh and bones.

Adventism's Physical God

Ellen White strongly suggested that not only Jesus but also His Father had physical bodies. Here are two of her quotes establishing her belief that Jesus Himself told her God has a body: "I have

www.thebereancall.org

The Source of Adventism’s Physical God – Proclamation! Online Magazine | Former Adventist Fellowship

blog.lifeassuranceministries.org

*** Personality of God by James White

I know that Mormons believe this too.

What other groups in the 1800's also taught this?

Christian Conxection.

John 4:24 --- "God is spirit, and they that worship Him must worship Him in spirit and in truth." --- Jesus

Directly from the mouth of Jesus, this seems pretty definitive to me.

The Liturgist · Nov 23, 2024

AveChristusRex said:
Most Patristic works and [subsequently] Church Fathers understood this to be a prefigurement of Christ; i.e., a Christophany. I don't know off the top of my head any Father who stated that it was truly the back of the Father.

This is the best way to put it, as the incorporeality nature of God the Father and God the Holy Spirit is purely spiritual and not material. Unlike the Son, who assumed a human nature in the Incarnation, God the Father and God the Holy Spirit exist eternally as a pure spirit without a physical body, according to St. Thomas Aquinas:

"God is incorporeal, as is clear from the fact that bodies are in potentiality. But God is pure act, without any potentiality. Hence it is impossible that He should be a body" (Summa Theologiae, I, q. 3, a. 1).

Hope this helps

indeed, furthermore, God the Father is generally regarded to have never been seen (except, possibly, as the Ancient of Days by the Holy Prophet St. Isaiah, but that might also have been Christ Pantocrator) except in the person of Jesus Christ, whereas the Holy Spirit has been visible as the Dove at the Baptism of our Lord, and as the Tongues of Fire on Pentecost. On the other hand, we know of two occasions when the Father specifically was heard, at the Baptism of our Lord and at the Transfiguration. “This is my beloved Son, in Whom I am Well Pleased.”

The Liturgist · Nov 23, 2024

linux.poet said:
He also can do the "pillar of cloud" and "pillar of fire" appearance to talk to humans when He wants to show up.

But that could have been the Holy Spirit. While it is not explicitly defined, I am inclined to believe that all Theophanies in the Old Testament where God did not assume an anthropic form were appearacnes of God the Holy Spirit, whereas those where God did assume an anthropic form were what the Early Church Fathers called Pre-incarnational appearances of Christ our True God.

The Liturgist · Nov 23, 2024

BobRyan said:
I DO know of some statements that she made about not getting into speculation about the substance of the Father, or the Holy Spirit or the entire God concept.

That’s potentially a serious issue, because the Nicene Creed expressly states that the Jesus Christ is of one essence (substance) with the Father, while also having put on our human nature (and thus being of one substance with us).

Indeed the Holy Spirit and the “entire God concept” by which I assume you mean the Holy and Undivided Trinity is very clearly spelled out in the Creed as adopted by the Council of Nicaea and refined at Constantinople in 381.

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God Father has flesh and bones????

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