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Democrats have an enormous dilemma if Kamala Harris loses

Wolseley

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Interesting article....very well thought out.

Anybody that knows me knows that I am not, repeat, not, left-wing, to say the least. But this piece is comparatively non-partisan. I don't agree with him on a few points, but it's a thoughtful analysis, worth the read.

MSN
 

Josheb

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Interesting article....very well thought out.

Anybody that knows me knows that I am not, repeat, not, left-wing, to say the least. But this piece is comparatively non-partisan. I don't agree with him on a few points, but it's a thoughtful analysis, worth the read.

MSN
First of all, there is nothing at MSN that is "comparatively non-partisan." Second, the unstated assumption upon which the entire article is written is the assumption what we read/hear from the Democrats is intended and taken seriously. Take, for example, that line or two about the "dunking machine." While it is likely that Biden will be scapegoated ahead of Harris, it's not likely Harris will be carted out to pasture because she's young and loaded with DEI bona fides. The problem is the Democrat Party's ability to fill in that gap between the mainstream Democrat and the socialist Democrat. Thier bench is thin there and they know it. They know they cannot yet field a candidate viable for where they want to take the country. They don't care about the voter of any party. The prediction is some will say Biden was, after all, "Biden was acting with integrity and fortitude when he ran in 2020 and 2024." As part of that "dunking" it's likely all the many, many, many shortcomings of Biden will suddenly appear in routine explanation why the election was lost - shortcomings that were ignored for most of four decades by the very same media that repeatedly called him "honorable." He's the fall guy and there's nothing more to see here. We are not the droids you're looking for.

And the MSN article says nothing about that.

And that silence is why the article is not nonpartisan.

One of the most basic, fundamental, rock-bottom-foundational difference between truly liberal Democrat thinking and truly conservative Republican thinking is that the former sees government as the chief agent of changes in society, the chief agent of solution and, therefore, something to be expanded as need and opportunity occur. Conservative Republicanism has the exact opposite point of view.

Yes, some libs in the Democratic Party will lose their proverbial minds, but that is likely to be limited to the elite, not the commoner. The paradoxically named "news" industry will continue their distribution of propaganda but it'll be the talk shows where the most rancor will occur and they'll express their incredulity by scapegoating all the ignorant citizens who did not vote for Harris, not just in the evil of Trump. Orange Man Bad!!! It will never occur to them that they got it wrong, not the common voter. Perhaps recent efforts at WaPo and NYT will mitigate some of this but Bezo's recent directive to hire more cons is not likely to have much effect. ABC is owned by Disney. CBS is owned by Paramount, and NBC is owned by Comcast (which collaborates with Microsoft. In other words, four of the big five news sources are owned by very-left-leaning Libs..... all of whom want more.

I'm not confident Harris will be second-to-blame. It's always been difficult for a VP to win the presidency, especially during time when the economy is poor. Harris nobly took on the candidacy with only a few months to go before the election and, despite her propensity form circular explanations, she fought nobly in the face of unwinnable odds. She'll be relegated to the place in history where Humphrey and Gore went, and even though Nixon and Bush I did manage to win a POTUS chair they too were eventually relegated to non-history. Everyone knows this is likely for Harris so why castigate her unnecessarily? Especially when Oange Man Bad!

No, it is more likely the radicals, what the article calls the "AOC wing," will get scapegoated next. I posted a summary of the voting record of several Dems, like Walz, Harris, Sanders, Minuchin, Sinema, etc. Showing how the first two are to the left of the already-very-left self-avowed Socialist Sanders. Walz and Harris' political offices at the federal level are done. Sanders and Pelosi are running but they are ollddd (and white).

Which brings me to another point about this article. Where is any mention of ethnicity and socio-economic class? Democratic politics are very much about race (it's actually about class but "race" is code for class). As one of my favorite talk show hosts likes to say, "The greatest power the media has is the power to ignore." That means everything we read/hear in "news" and commentary should be read/heard with a great degree of regard for what is not said...... and there's a lot that is not said in that article. News and commentary are a very selective process. The profession of journalism is the use of words, and the second principle pertains to what not to say.


All that silence is part of the "well thought out."
 
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Josheb

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Interesting article....very well thought out.

Anybody that knows me knows that I am not, repeat, not, left-wing, to say the least. But this piece is comparatively non-partisan. I don't agree with him on a few points, but it's a thoughtful analysis, worth the read.

MSN
Part II

In regards to my closing comments of the previous post, consider the following,

"In addition to blame, there would be a profound reckoning about how the Democratic Party lost its mainstream appeal. Once it offered a home to a wide spectrum of voters (fiscal conservatives, progressives, bipartisan moderates, lefties) while embracing classic American tenets such as tolerance, free speech, patriotism and a global helping hand. There was a tangible pride in its representation of the old and the young, the well-heeled and the up-and-coming, the patriarchs and the new arrivals. Now it is fragmented and disordered, plagued by infighting, resentment and second-guessing, resembling a dog with a flea on its tail, chasing itself, circling, biting, without calm or cohesion, or a fresh mainstream policy agenda. And, of course, as much as Democrats are loath to admit it, or even think about it, Trump has taken advantage of their move to the far left to take more of the ground in the political center than they could have ever imagined."​

Aside from the fact the reader is manipulated by having that paragraph interrupted by a picture (and a picture of what appears to be an angry man most readers won't recognize), that paragraph's claims are not entirely true. The Democratic Party has not lost its "mainstream appeal." That's a lie. It's propaganda. America is split right down the middle as far as two-party politics goes and it has always been that way. Polls consistently show half the population is Dem and half is Repub. Mainstream America is divided into two parties. The Democratic Party is half of the "mainstream." If anything was lost, then it is the appeal within their half of the mainstream. And, again, the professionals at MSN know this and yet Mr. Halperin wrote that paragraph. He's supposed to be the best and his professional ethics are supposed to prevent that kind of misrepresentation.

A more accurate view would be that the "mainstream" still holds values of the Democratic Party but there is a divide between the elite and the common voter. An accurate view would be that one of the Democratic Parties strengths has always been its ability to gather minority populations (like LGBTQA++, ethnicities, and Socialists) and bring them together despite their often-opposing values. No minority is, by definition, representative of the whole. While they may or may not be constituent elements of the much larger "mainstream," some minorities (like gays and/or socialists) do not share all of mainstream's values. Two things the vast majority of those in and out of the mainstream is the rule of law and a secure, thriving economy. Both parties have done a very wanting job of the former in recent years. The latter, however, is where the two sides of the mainstream come together and neither Harris or Biden helped the mainstream. In fact, they lied, lied blatantly, and lied often. Politicians lie. That's not news, and Trump has taken what politicians do to new heights in mockery (although that seems to have escaped everyone in the media), but what Biden and Harris did the last four years hurt the mainstream at home.

And there's no mention of that in the article, either.

That sentence "Once it offered a home to a wide spectrum of voters (fiscal conservatives, progressives, bipartisan moderates, lefties) while embracing classic American tenets such as tolerance, free speech, patriotism and a global helping hand," is reminiscent of Marc Antony's funeral speech about the honorable men who slayed Caesar in Shakespeare's third act of Julius Caesar. They are not tolerant. That article is about a supposed enormous dilemma facing the Democratic Party and the likelihood of "dunking' (which is code for blame and scapegoating. Tolerant people do not blame and scapegoat. They do not support free speech, either. There's a raging debate going on in America right now over what to do with social media, whether or not to prevent certain content, and what is permitted or not, and to what degree can or should the federal government be involved. Donald Trump was castigated for claiming there was a thing that could actually be called "fake news," but we all now know there is a lot of fake news. Orange Man bad.... but he was right. Polls consistently show 69-78% of journalists self-report to being politically left of center. In places like NPR to 99% and when WaPo surveyed its editors 100% of them were Democrats. In other words, the Democrats are free to speak, but none of their media institutions practices free speech. Facebook and Youtube have become a jokes as far as free speech goes. The fact is the so called "alternative media" and the division between liberal and conservative news would not exist if the liberals had been objective with the news. As far as patriotism goes, this is very simple: globalization is antithetical to patriotism, and the Democratic Party is easily much more globalist than the Republican. Halperin knows this so he also, therefore, knows he is lying. As far as a "global helping hand goes," the Monroe Doctrine (protecting the Americas) was globally helpful. Pax Americana was globally helpful. Allowing South and Central American countries to go to hell is not global helpfulness and that neglect is directly responsible for the current migrant crisis we now face. Halperin knows this too, so he also knows he was lying.

The article is a propaganda piece, an effort to get ahead of what might happen starting November 6th and frame those events ahead of time for MSN readers, most of whom are left-of-center readers.





The Society of Professional Journalists' Code of Ethics can be found HERE. I took some journalism classes many decades ago when I was trying to decide my major. We were hammered with the need to be ethical and there was a lot of debate raging about the lack of objectivity routinely occurring in media. Back then we used to draw a line between news and commentary, even in the light of historical realities like "muckraking," "yellow journalism," and the political influences of Pulitzer and Hearst, but that line eroded beyond redemption long ago and now, as a consequence, we have two versions of every bit of news, not one factual news with multiple opinions. I mention this and cite the ethics code because once this is known, reading/hearing news and commentary is never again the same. Marc Halperin is a propagandist, not a journalist, and he knows it.


I strongly encourage everyone with an interest to read Gaye Tuchman's book, "News Making: A Study in the Construction of Reality." It's a long read and a bit boring in places but it's also phenomenal in its examination of how news is made. Tuchman is a sociologist. She is also politically left of center. She hung out at the news offices of several agencies in the Seattle, Washington area. The state of Washington has long leaned left. I say this so you know Tuchman is not inherently antagonistic to what she studied. She didn't go there looking to rake muck. She does a very good job of objectively recounting the editorial process in which tons of information comes into these organizations and is then selected for local, national, and/or international distribution. If it's read, the news and journalism will never be seen the same again.
 
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Josheb

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Interesting article....very well thought out.

Anybody that knows me knows that I am not, repeat, not, left-wing, to say the least. But this piece is comparatively non-partisan. I don't agree with him on a few points, but it's a thoughtful analysis, worth the read.

MSN
Personally, @Wolseley, the liberals did the "I can't believe it, self-immolation thing when Trump beat Clinton. They've been there, done that, I doubt they'll do it again. It wasn't good for them. What they did learn was effective was obfuscation. Unless Trump carry the popular vote AND the Republicans carry both houses (possible but not likely) the Democrats will channel their incredulity, anger, fear, and lust toward obstructing everything they can. Biden and Harris both campaigned on "unity," on bringing the country together (even as they regularly used epithets to describe others). They failed miserably and I see no evidence that will change any time soon. The article ends by saying the party will "reorganize." That reorganization will likely be all about consolidating toward a common enemy. Orange Man Bad! And not reorganizing thought, policy and practice to a more sensible, election-winning alternative to...... its current self!


A similar event will happen once Trump is gone. There are no more Trumps, and non-politicians cannot keep the office. That means the office of POTUS will inevitably return to the hands of politicians and that was one of the things that got Trump elected in the first place.
 
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Akita Suggagaki

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"And if Harris loses, this would be the Democrats’ biggest problem: there would be zero consensus in the party about what went wrong – and thus zero consensus about what the proper solutions should be, and, therefore, zero consensus about which leaders should be empowered to bring the party back to power. "

I think there will be consensus about the border and lack of messaging about the economy.

But I think Harris will win with the help of women, minorities and young people out to vote in record numbers.
 
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zippy2006

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While it is likely that Biden will be scapegoated ahead of Harris, it's not likely Harris will be carted out to pasture because she's young and loaded with DEI bona fides.
They will be confused, but she could easily be carted to pasture. The left has no problem at all with eating their own, and Harris is an unelected nominee who has largely been a disaster of a candidate. Hopefully a loss will draw the dems back toward centrism. At least the centrists don't have to mimic Harris' flip-flopping on every issue imaginable.

Remember that Biden was only there because of Bernie. ...and so was Harris. The schizophrenia of the Democrats is the underlying issue, and for once the left risks a shift of the Overton window back towards the right.
 
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Wolseley

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Thank you, Josheb, for that well thought out and deeply detailed analysis. :)

Although I will admit that about a quarter of the way into your second volume, my eyes glazed over and the circuit breakers in my brain began thumping closed, I do appreciate the amount of time and thought it undoubtedly took you to type out a response that lengthy and that heavily-researched. :)

I'm afraid that what it all comes down to, however (as it always does), is that it ain't over 'til the fat lady sings, and then what we're left with are the pundits trying to figure out why things went the way they did.

I don't pretend to have the foggiest idea of who will win this election (although I dearly, fervently hope and pray that it's not Commiela), but I suspect that if Trump does triumph, it will be because he wins by a landslide that no one can possibly dispute the veracity of----on the order of Roosevelt's win in 1936, or Nixon's win in 1972. If the vote is razor-close, there will be too much doubt about the legitimacy of the results, due to the inevitable vote manipulating, gerrymandering, and cheating that the Democrats will most certainly employ, the same way they did in 2016 and 2020. They know they can get away with it now, so we can be assured they will continue the same slimy tricks in this cycle. But, as I say: it ain't over 'til it's over.
 
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Josheb

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They will be confused, but she could easily be carted to pasture. The left has no problem at all with eating their own, and Harris is an unelected nominee who has largely been a disaster of a candidate. Hopefully a loss will draw the dems back toward centrism. At least the centrists don't have to mimic Harris' flip-flopping on every issue imaginable.
That which is ignored need not be led to pasture or brought forward except as an empty vessel used to repeat the sentiments of others. I see no evidence Dems are interested in any center.
 
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zippy2006

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But I think Harris will win with the help of women, minorities and young people out to vote in record numbers.
According to exit polls, Trump made massive gains with Blacks, Hispanics, and young voters. Trump also made gains among women. He is the first Republican to win the popular vote since 2004. This is all despite the desperate negative press that has been showered on him.

This was not hard to predict. Progressives must recognize that they have been lied to and manipulated to believe that Trump is anti-Black, anti-Hispanic, etc. Given the reality of these outcomes, progressives should be desirous to deprogram themselves.
 
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RileyG

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According to exit polls, Trump made massive gains with Blacks, Hispanics, and young voters. Trump also made gains among women. He is the first Republican to win the popular vote since 2004. This is all despite the desperate negative press that has been showered on him.

This was not hard to predict. Progressives must recognize that they have been lied to and manipulated to believe that Trump is anti-Black, anti-Hispanic, etc. Given the reality of these outcomes, progressives should be desirous to deprogram themselves.
That's lovely!
 
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Hazelelponi

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According to exit polls, Trump made massive gains with Blacks, Hispanics, and young voters. Trump also made gains among women. He is the first Republican to win the popular vote since 2004. This is all despite the desperate negative press that has been showered on him.

This was not hard to predict. Progressives must recognize that they have been lied to and manipulated to believe that Trump is anti-Black, anti-Hispanic, etc. Given the reality of these outcomes, progressives should be desirous to deprogram themselves.

Don't forget the Arabs (though I don't see the majority as permanent America first adds) but I am still happy they joined us.
 
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