Discussion What is the perfect thing to come 1 Cor 13?

Guojing said:

So what are we hoping for, after we get our redeemed bodies and have perfect knowledge? Care to give some examples?

Click to expand...

I think that this other needs to be focused on before I provide any other examples.

Why do you think that you'll have perfect knowledge but not need what abides 1Cor.13:13 faith, hope, love?

T.i.m.o.t.h.y. said:

I think that this other needs to be focused on before I provide any other examples.

Why do you think that you'll have perfect knowledge but not need what abides 1Cor.13:13 faith, hope, love?

Click to expand...

The point I was making is that if the perfect refers to the 2nd coming of Christ, why would one still need to have faith and hope after that??

GoldenKingGaze said:

I see the confusion, people in those times will still start families, right?

Click to expand...

But not you, you would agree with that?

GoldenKingGaze said:

Only because I am not married. That is only me.

Click to expand...

But in heaven, no one in the Body of Christ will be having children (Matthew 22:30)

GoldenKingGaze said:

During the thousand year reign, we'll hopefully be on Earth. In Heaven, we may leave some behind.

Click to expand...

I guess one of the reasons you are hoping that, is because you want to believe 1 Cor 13:13 happens after the 2nd coming.

Alright then.

Guojing said:

The point I was making is that if the perfect refers to the 2nd coming of Christ, why would one still need to have faith and hope after that??

Click to expand...

Are you equating "the perfect to come" to be the coming of Christ? No. Eschatology is not a topic in 1Cor. chapters 12-14. Paul mentions eschatology to a small extent in the first chapter of Corinthians.. in regard to how long the gifts are to function. 1:7 "So that you are not lacking in any gift, awaiting eagerly the revelation of our Lord Jesus Christ."

1Cor.1:10 ".. that you be united in mind and conviction." The word 'united' : Strong's Lexicon : Usage: The verb "katartizó" carries the sense of making something complete or whole. It is used in the New Testament to describe the process of restoring something to its original or intended state, equipping someone for a task, or perfecting a person or thing. This term often implies a sense of repair or preparation, whether it be mending nets, restoring relationships, or equipping believers for spiritual maturity.

Paul's main content is regarding spiritual maturity.

In chapter 13 in particular Paul starts out by talking about what things of God don't work when there is no love in practice.

So the context has to remain throughout the chapter. Paul defines his phrase "the perfect to come" in vs.10 with the content of vs.11. The perfect to come as per Strong's Lexicon means

Definition: Perfect, complete, mature, full-grown
Meaning: perfect, (a) complete in all its parts, (b) full grown, of full age, (c) specially of the completeness of Christian character.

When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man (mature), I set aside childish ways.

Nothing in 1Cor.13 is saying that faith, hope, and love are set aside when we get our glorified bodies at Jesus' Coming. That is reading something into the text that isn't there.

The topic and goal in view is spiritual maturity.

So how or when or why we get our glorified bodies is an out of context topic of the text, and is also off thread topic.

T.i.m.o.t.h.y. said:

Are you equating "the perfect to come" to be the coming of Christ? No. Eschatology is not a topic in 1Cor. chapters 12-14. Paul mentions eschatology to a small extent in the first chapter of Corinthians.. in regard to how long the gifts are to function. 1:7 "So that you are not lacking in any gift, awaiting eagerly the revelation of our Lord Jesus Christ."

Click to expand...

I am not saying that.

I am simply saying whatever that perfect is to come is, it has to be aligned to 1 Cor 13:13, that once that perfect arrives, only faith, hope and charity remains.

T.i.m.o.t.h.y. said:

Nothing in 1Cor.13 is saying that faith, hope, and love are set aside when we get our glorified bodies at Jesus' Coming. That is reading something into the text that isn't there.

Click to expand...

I am simply asking you a common sense question, "When we get our glorified body, why would we still need to hope for anything more?" (Romans 8:24)

What else is there to hope for after that? Can you provide some examples?

Now, if you were to reply, "I am sure there will be more things to hope for, but I just don't know what they are", I can accept that honest answer.

Guojing said:

I am not saying that.

I am simply saying whatever that perfect is to come is, it has to be aligned to 1 Cor 13:13, that once that perfect arrives, only faith, hope and charity remains.

Click to expand...

Well you do acknowledge here that faith, hope, and love abide. But you forget that when it comes to Rm.8:24.

There is no 'only' in that text. Faith, hope and love are not the only things that remain/abide/are eternal. Paul was saying that those three are involved throughout our Christian lives and remain with us forever., he's also saying that they each must function in order to achieve spiritual maturity.

The perfect 1Cor.13:10 is an ongoing process of spiritual maturity 1Cor.13:11 that occurs with every co-operating individual believer to use faith, hope, and love in order to Eph.4:13 grow to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ. 1Cor.13:12 So that we know fully even as we are fully known.
The perfect that comes is not a one time event as you suggested- the Second Coming of Christ.

Guojing said:

I am simply asking you a common sense question, "When we get our glorified body, why would we still need to hope for anything more?" (Romans 8:24)

Click to expand...

The question is not a common sense one because it's implying that once hope is used to get the glorified body the hope is discarded like a used engine on a rocket escaping earth's atmosphere.

We are to hope for the redemption of our body. But the text doesn't say that hope ends there. Such an idea as that contradicts the eternal function of hope conveyed in the verse 1Cor.13:13.

Rms.15:13 says that we are to abound in hope by the power of the Holy Spirit. Who is eternal. Rm.5:5 And who dwells in us. And Jn.14:18 will never forsake us. That means that hope will not depart from us any more than the Holy Spirit will.

Guojing said:

What else is there to hope for after that? Can you provide some examples?

Click to expand...

See below.

Guojing said:

Now, if you were to reply, "I am sure there will be more things to hope for, but I just don't know what they are", I can accept that honest answer.

Click to expand...

The things to hope for are mentioned in the book of Revelation. After the Rapture of the Church, we will be in heaven during the 7 year Tribulation on the earth.. we'll attend the Bema Seat for Rewards, then will be the Wedding Supper of the Lamb, then the Second Coming of Jesus returning with all believers to earth to deal with the Anti-Christ. and the False Prophet..etc, then will be the Messianic Millennium, then The White Throne Judgement, then The New Heaven and New Earth.

During the MM, and most likely continue after the NH,NE.. we, the glorified ones will be teaching all the surviving flesh-body-humans from the 7 year Tribulation how to use faith, hope and love. We can't teach if we no longer have those ourselves.

But any particular details not spoken of in scripture of those events, I honestly don't know.

T.i.m.o.t.h.y. said:

During the MM, and most likely continue after the NH,NE.. we, the glorified ones will be teaching all the surviving flesh-body-humans from the 7 year Tribulation how to use faith, hope and love. We can't teach if we no longer have those ourselves.

Click to expand...

How do you know this will happen?

T.i.m.o.t.h.y. said:

But any particular details not spoken of in scripture of those events, I honestly don't know.

Click to expand...

So to sum up, what you are saying is similar to "I am sure there will be more things to hope for, but I just don't know what they are"

Alright then, as I said, that is being honest.

GoldenKingGaze said:

In 1 Corinthians 13 Paul tells us of the perfect thing to come. What is it? And it says, then I shall know as fully as I am known. Prophecy will cease....

Click to expand...

The perfect thing is as described in Ephesians 4:

Ephesians 4:11-16 KJV
11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:
13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:
14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;
15 But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ:
16 From whom the whole body fitly joined together and compacted by that which every joint supplieth, according to the effectual working in the measure of every part, maketh increase of the body unto the edifying of itself in love.

When the spirit of Christ in the individual members achieves maturity... we will not need spiritual gifts and ministries. As a body, we will walk as He did and do the works He did. We will operate with the "God kind of faith" and "speak those things that be not as tho they were." We will operate in love rather than jealousy and envy. We will just speak the word that abides in us, and do the works.