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Fellowship The gift of prophesying (Read the ruleset before you post)

ARBITER01

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First the ruleset for a fellowship tag,...

Use this tag for any thread where you just want to share chit chat or discuss a topic with other like-minded members. There should be No debate at all, it is strictly fellowship in nature. The OP of these threads can report their own thread if it crosses the line into debate and staff will assist in a thread clean up (please see above for a definition of debate).

Over the years this gift has caused quite a few arguments on this message board between people who actually operated in the gift and were around others that also did, and those that had only a theoretical book knowledge about the gift. I have operated in the gift in the corporate assembly sparingly, but have been around others that operated in it much more than I.

I think experience is absolutely key in understanding any of these gifts, as scripture says,....

Heb 5:13 for every one who partakes of milk is inexperienced in the word of righteousness, for he is a babe;

Book knowledge will only lead you to remaining a babe in Christ. We want to be sons of GOD not just babes in Christ, so we want to be led and taught by The Holy Spirit, and that requires experience from Him.

Again this is not a debate thread. You don't like the direction I'm taking on the subject, make your own thread. Don't clutter up mine with your disagreements and theoretical arguments.
 
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ARBITER01

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To open this thread, let's look at this gift mentioned in the Old Testament a bit,...

1Sa 10:10 And when they came thither to the hill, behold, a band of prophets met him; and the spirit of God came mightily upon him, and he prophesied among them.
1Sa 10:11 And it came to pass, when all that knew him beforetime saw that, behold, he prophesied with the prophets, then the people said one to another, What is this that is come unto the son of Kish? Is Saul also among the prophets?
1Sa 10:12 And one of the same place answered and said, And who is their father? Therefore it became a proverb, Is Saul also among the prophets?
1Sa 10:13 And when he had made an end of prophesying, he came to the high place.


1Sa 19:23 And he went thither to Naioth in Ramah: and the spirit of God came upon him also, and he went on, and prophesied, until he came to Naioth in Ramah.
1Sa 19:24 And he also stripped off his clothes, and he also prophesied before Samuel, and lay down naked all that day and all that night. Wherefore they say, Is Saul also among the prophets?

Is there a book of Saul among the books of the prophets? It says right there twice in scripture that The Holy Spirit came upon Saul and he prophesied,..... why don't we have a book of the scripture that Saul was speaking during those times???

Because,..... he wasn't speaking scripture.

In the OT the gift of prophesying was a personal edification gift for the prophets, similar to the gift of tongues. In the NT, it has become not just a personal edification gift, but a corporate edification gift alongside the gift of tongues with interpretation.
 
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ARBITER01

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Ok,.... so I mentioned about how there are so many arguments here over the definition and use of this gift,.... so now why is this so?

Because of this one Greek word right here,.....

1Co 12:10 and to another workings of miracles; and to another prophecy; and to another discernings of spirits: to another divers kinds of tongues; and to another the interpretation of tongues:

That word prophecy in the Greek means this,....

- Original: προφητεία
- Transliteration: Propheteia
- Phonetic: prof-ay-ti'-ah
- Definition:
1. prophecy
a. a discourse emanating from divine inspiration and declaring the purposes of God, whether by reproving and admonishing the wicked, or comforting the afflicted, or revealing things hidden; esp. by foretelling future events
b. Used in the NT of the utterance of OT prophets
1. of the prediction of events relating to christ's kingdom and its speedy triumph, together with the consolations and admonitions pertaining to it, the spirit of prophecy, the divine mind, to which the prophetic faculty is due
2. of the endowment and speech of the Christian teachers called prophets
3. the gifts and utterances of these prophets, esp. of the predictions of the works of which, set apart to teach the gospel, will accomplish for the kingdom of christ
- Origin: from G4396 (prophecy)
- TDNT entry: 19:02,0
- Part(s) of speech: Noun Feminine

- Strong's: From G4396 (prophecy);
prediction (scriptural or other): - prophecy prophesying.


I highlighted a few areas where the word is defined as predictive.

Prophecy in the general sense means just like the word is defined in the Greek. When a true prophet/prophetess of GOD begins to speak predictive utterance by The Holy Spirit, that is known as prophecy or prophesying. But what we are talking about is the specific gift of prophecy/prophesying, and that is not defined by the Greek word, it is defined by it's use found in scripture.

For instance,....

Act 15:32 And Judas and Silas, who were also prophets, exhorted the brethren with many words, and strengthened them.

Notice,........ there is no mention of anything predictive when they were speaking unto those Gentile believers. They were encouraging them and confirming the guidance those Gentiles believers had already received from The Holy Spirit. That is a definite part of this particular gift

Another example,....

Act 21:8 And on the morrow we departed, and came unto Caesarea: and entering into the house of Philip the evangelist, who was one of the seven, we abode with him.
Act 21:9 Now this man had four daughters, virgins, which did prophesy.
Act 21:10 And as we tarried there many days, there came down from Judaea a certain prophet, named Agabus.
Act 21:11 And coming to us, and taking Paul's girdle, he bound his own feet and hands, and said, Thus saith the Holy Ghost, So shall the Jews at Jerusalem bind the man that owneth this girdle, and shall deliver him into the hands of the Gentiles.
Act 21:12 And when we heard these things, both we and they of that place besought him not to go up to Jerusalem.


Notice,..... the virgin daughters of Philip "which did prophesy" did not speak this utterance and prediction by The Holy Spirit unto Paul, it took GOD sending Agabus from Judea to do so, an actual prophet. The virtuous daughters were unable to provide the predictive revelation to Paul. Obviously they were not gifted in this area to do so.

Again, this gift is defined by it's use in scripture, not by it's Greek definition.

The specific gift of prophesying is not a revelation gift like the discerning of spirits or the word of wisdom, it is an inspirational gift. It only provides Edification, Exhortation, and Comfort personally or corporately.

So it's easy to see how this gift can be very confusing for some folks,....... for those not guided by The Holy Spirit, for those that don't operate in this gift, especially for those that don't have the filling of The Holy Spirit inside of them. It's easy to notice how they can have only a theoretical book knowledge on these gifts but have no actual experience in them. It's a very telling aspect, and one that we need to pay attention to as mature Christians.

In many respects, I think The Holy Spirit has built into scripture some revealing features that can be used by those mature in Christ to know better about other folks and where their true loyalties are.
 
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ARBITER01

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Here is "the" correct definition of the gift of prophesying,.....


7. THE GIFT OF PROPHESYING

A. DEFINITION - The gift of prophesying is inspirational utterance in a known language which the one giving the utterance and the audience understands. The Hebrew word for prophecy means: "To flow forth or to spring forth." It also carries the same thought of bubbling forth like a fountain, or “To tumble forth." The Greek word for prophecy means to "speak for another." The term “prophecy” here can be easily misunderstood since it is used both generically in our bible as well as specifically. The definition provided here is for the “specific” gift of prophesying.

B. APPLICATION - The utterance of this gift can be discerned from three possible spiritual sources through a believer:

1) The Holy Spirit - The corporate ministry gift of prophesying is uttered by The Holy Spirit unto the assembly, and will always come in the limited framework of “Edification, Encouragement, and Comfort” as defined in 1Cor 14:3. These three attributes of this ministry will always be contained together in a message from The Holy Spirit, the crowning achievement being the Holy Spirit’s peace and comfort with the message. It is always given in the spirit of love to edify the assembly rather than condemn or tear it down. The message can be poetic, and elevated beyond the natural gift of speech, having a tangible Spiritual edification on the inside of the believer’s spirit during the message.

2) The human spirit - Prophesying that is uttered from the human spirit in the assembly is unable to edify and minister unto our spirit on the inside since it does not originate from The Holy Spirit. It can possibly be negative and critical, but mostly just dry of spiritual edification. It can also be presented in the form of a lie like a false sense of security or peace, as was depicted in the 28th Chapter of Jeremiah, where Hananiah the Prophet of GOD spoke peace and was condemned by Jeremiah the Prophet for falsely attributing his words as GOD’s words. The LORD judged his false words as teaching rebellion unto the people against The LORD, and condemned and killed His own Prophet.

3) evil spirit(s) - Prophesying that is uttered by an evil spirit(s) is subtle, deceptive, manipulative, and the opposite to the character and nature of GOD. It tries to manipulate individuals/churches to make hasty decisions, thereby causing wrong choices that take people or the church out of the will of GOD. It will be tangibly felt as a wrong check by The Holy Spirit inside of our spirit when it is being spoken. A biblical example of this can be seen in the 2nd chapter of Jeremiah where GOD says His prophets “prophesied by Baal” instead of by His Spirit.

C. METHODS - This gift can be manifested in 2 ways through a believer:

1) Corporately - The gift is yielded to The Holy Spirit’s promptings, and operated by His utterance in human languages unto the assembly in a designated ministry. The message will be limited to “Edification, Exhortation, and Comfort” just as Paul defined in 1st Corinthians.

The gift can also be used corporately to an individual. The Encouragement portion of the gift can be used by The Holy Spirit to confirm to a believer what was already revealed to them by The Holy Spirit beforehand, and establish and strengthen their walk with Jesus. This is done before the assembly and judged by the assembly.

2) Personally - This gift can be stepped out in personal faith and operated by the believer’s human spirit for personal edification similar to the gift of tongues. This personal use of the gift by our human spirit can sometimes be wrongly operated in the assembly by a young or misguided believer, and cause much grief and division in the body of Christ, since normally the message is expected to be inspired from The Holy Spirit when uttered in the assembly. It can be one of the most abused gifts of the nine by Spirit-filled believers if it is allowed to be used wrongfully in this sort of manner.


The Holy Spirit has helped me over the years to put together definitions of the gifts, and this one is the definitive standard for this particular gift. I boldly state it. Every needed understanding associated with this gift is contained in this definition.
 
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ARBITER01

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Here is how the gifts of The Spirit are categorized,...

POWER GIFTS

1. The Gift of Faith
2. The Working of Powers/Miracles
3. The Gifts of Healings

REVELATION GIFTS

4. The Word of Wisdom
5. The Word of Knowledge
6. The Discerning of Spirits

INSPIRATIONAL GIFTS

7. The Gift of Prophesying
8. The Gift of the Interpretation of Tongues
9. The Gift of Tongues

The gift of prophesying is at the top of it's category. This is because it is considered the best of the three, but also because it can be harder to attain this gift's operation in a Christian's life. The gift of tongues is quite easy to have operating in any Christian's life when they are filled with The Spirit, but the other two will most likely require us to seek GOD for their operation.

Each list is the same. The word of wisdom is the best of the revelation gifts, and the gift of faith is the best of the power gifts.


EDIT: I wanted to add that in Hagin's old pamphlet about the ministry of a Prophet, on page 17 he states,...

"It is most blessed to use prophecy in prayer. It lifts one higher than anything because prophecy carries the greatest inspiration."

He (or whoever edited his Study Series on the gifts) did not place that statement in there when they copied over portions of this book, but that statement could possibly be true since the gift of prophesying is considered a greater gift of the three.

Hagin was a very prolific writer, which is an aspect of what inspiration does for us, so it is quite possible that he knew something on this by experience that other writers about the gifts didn't.
 
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ARBITER01

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Here is the material that I use for reference and study on the gifts,....

- Carter, Howard. Questions & answers on spiritual gifts.

- Sumrall, Lester. The Gifts of The Holy Spirit (with study guide)

- Hagin, Kenneth E. The Holy Spirit and His Gifts, Study Course series

Every item listed has a plethora of material to go through, and it is right. You will not be wrong on your understanding of the gifts by studying this material.
 
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How does the gift operate, what should one expect to see when it does?

The gift of prophesying operates the same way as the gift of tongues and interpretation in the corporate assembly. The Holy Spirit will speak through a person with that gift. It will be GOD speaking to that local congregation. The message should have a tangible touch to your spirit and a strengthening effect throughout the message, and the message itself will be encouraging and comforting. The Holy Spirit can tend to provide a peaceful atmosphere after the message.

That is the normal way we should see the gift operate, but The Holy Spirit can utilize a person with the gift to speak a personal message to someone in that assembly also. This will only be done in front of the assembly, not in the church kitchen or behind closed doors.

This sort of message will be confirming things that The Holy Spirit has already shown a person to establish them and strengthen their walk. It is not predictive, it is for confirmation.

We will not see this gift in operation on youtube or some other public place, it is for the assembly as I described, or individual private use at times by GOD for edification.

That is the extent of it's use and operation. Be not deceived.
 
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Tell me what you think about this theory. It involves many gifts.

A School of Sin: Rethinking the Purpose of Suffering in Christian Eschatology

Introduction

For centuries, Christians have pondered the meaning of suffering, the purpose of the Tribulation, and the significance of Judgment Day in God’s divine plan. A fresh theory has emerged, positing that human life serves as a “School of Sin,” where people learn firsthand the profound consequences of sin as a preparation for a spiritually enlightened eternity. This perspective challenges us to consider the Tribulation, typically seen as a period of ultimate misfortune, as an experience designed by God to be among His highest blessings.

The Immediate Judgment Day:
A Personal Apocalypse

In conversations about Judgment Day, it’s often assumed to be a distant event where all humanity faces divine judgment simultaneously. However, another interpretation suggests that from the moment of death, each soul experiences Judgment Day as an immediate and personal event. According to Christian doctrine, death places the soul into a state of “soul sleep,” an unconscious state with no sense of time. From this perspective, the deceased experiences no passage of time between their death and judgment, leading to the sensation of an instant transition from the end of life to standing before Christ. This view reframes the experience of Judgment Day as an individual encounter, imminent for each person, which offers a new urgency to the choices made in life.

The Role of the Tribulation:
Witnesses to the Depths of Sin

If each individual’s “Judgment Day” is immediate upon death, then what, we might ask, is the purpose of the Tribulation? Here arises an intriguing answer: the survivors of the Tribulation may serve a specific, divine purpose. Traditionally, those alive during the Tribulation are seen as unfortunate, living through a period marked by extreme suffering, upheaval, and challenges to faith. However, this theory suggests that those who experience the Tribulation do so not by accident or mere misfortune but because of a unique calling and purpose.

The concept of the Tribulation survivors being chosen as final witnesses of sin suggests that their endurance and resilience allow them to gain an advanced understanding of the true depth and destructive nature of sin. By enduring the darkest trials humanity will face, they are profoundly transformed and enlightened, gaining a level of spiritual maturity and insight that will be essential in the Millennial Reign to follow.

Life as a "School of Sin”

To fully grasp the meaning of life as a preparation for eternity, this theory presents human existence as a “School of Sin.” The notion is that humanity, endowed with free will, is uniquely placed in a world of sin and suffering as a means to fully understand its consequences. Life is thus a divine education: by experiencing the sorrow, loss, and pain caused by sin, humanity is enlightened, gaining an understanding that angels, who do not experience sin in this way, cannot achieve.

In this “school,” humans learn lessons in resilience, humility, and empathy, understanding the true nature of grace and redemption by experiencing the absence of them. As free beings, the choice to pursue God gains profound significance, for it comes after enduring the consequences of sin and consciously choosing salvation. In short, this earthly experience, though fraught with anguish, becomes a divine preparation—a necessary immersion in the consequences of sin, leading the soul toward enlightenment and readying it for its final destination.

The Final Role of Tribulation Survivors: Enlightened Custodians of the Millennial Reign

From this perspective, those who survive the Tribulation are not merely spared for practical purposes but are prepared to become guardians of the new world to follow. The extreme trials they face are not an end but a form of ultimate preparation, equipping them with insights others may not possess. Their experiences provide them with a refined spiritual maturity and a deep-seated understanding of sin’s effects that will allow them to lead humanity with compassion, wisdom, and an unbreakable resolve against sin.

This experience uniquely prepares them to repopulate the earth and guide humanity into the Millennial Reign, ensuring that this new era is founded upon an enlightened perspective born out of witnessing humanity’s darkest hour.

Conclusion

In this vision, the Tribulation becomes one of God’s highest blessings, not simply a time of suffering but a transformative experience designed for those who are chosen to lead humanity forward. Those who endure it are tasked with a sacred purpose: to become living testimonies of the consequences of sin and the power of faith, offering hope and guidance for a renewed world. They are not merely survivors but exemplars of resilience and faith, bearers of a profound spiritual enlightenment, uniquely prepared for the divine honor of stewarding the earth in God’s restored kingdom.

Through this lens, life’s trials and tribulations are reframed not as punishments but as the highest blessings—essential steps in a divine curriculum that prepares each soul for eternity. In this “School of Sin,” the trials of life serve to educate, refine, and ultimately transform, leading humanity toward a final purpose that, while hidden, is profoundly sacred.

Bible passages that refer to the idea of soul sleep.

Matthew 9:24
Mark 5:39
John 11:11-14
Acts 7:20
1 Corinthians 15:5
1, 52
1 Thessalonians 4:13-17
2 Peter 3:4
 
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